Big Bible Lesson Thread

**Lucid_boy** · 08-04-2007 12:27 AM

THIS IS NOT AN ARGUMENT THREAD, THIS IS A THREAD FOR PEOPLE THAT HAVE AN INTREST IN GETTING TO KNOW THE CHRISTIAN RELIGON AND GOD.

If you have questions ask, I will have a bible lesson. The other christians can help and assist me in this endavour. I will have MY bible lessons will have no set dates, they will be every few days. If someone wants to run one of the lessons when I can't then please PM me.

Bible lesson 1: why turn to god? what's in it for me?

Alot of people ask, besides the obvious reward (eternal life), what is in it for me? why waste my time or energy and ocasionaly money? there are five things that I can think of:

1. A sense of companionship. In todays modern world where family ties are becoming thinner and you may need a sense of closeness, god can provide. An example of severd ties: A family sues each other, people don't talk to parents and siblings. A son puts his mother in a nursing home and never visits, ect. America is a country that thrives on a sense of independence, of not needing each other. This country was settled by people who "didn't need family", they left there parents behind to come out west, same with Irish imigrants. This Independence can become lonely and god provides companionship.

2.Forgiveness. Some people, not always atheists, who don't believe in god go through life feeling guilty for the things they've done. They try to rationalize there guilt and tell them selves it was an accident but they can't make the guilt go away. This is for a good reason, guilt is about how we feel that others see us. When we think that people think bad of us because of what we did we feel guilty. God can provide forgiveness from this guilt and trust me, forgiveness is a wonderful feeling. I heard a story of someone who wrote a letter which they signed forever guilty because they had ran over a little boy who died. should they feel guilty forever? In my opinion no, and god can forgive them and take guilt away.

3.someone to face the hard times with. When your down, when your family is sick, when someone dies, god can help us. People who believe in god are far more likely to get through hard times without serious mental issues because of god. You have someone to talk to and someone to help you deal with sadness.

4.A new view and realization that life is good. Christians have a tendancy to see the beauty in the world, some atheists, because of there lack of god, live only for self gratification and fail to see the beuaty of the world and life around them. When you live for others and help and guide them you notice the beauty.

5.The ocasional gift. God is generous, he is a giver. He has given me drink when I was thirsty here is a story: I was riding in my grandapa's truck and dying of thirst there was nothing in the truck to drink. I prayed to god to help me with my hideous thirst and suddenly I began to feel tierd. I layed my head on my grandpa's coat (it was on the seat) but there was somthing hard beneath it. I picked up the coat to move what was hard beneath it and there was a box of juice boxes (I drank like four)!!! Like I said, god gives the ocasional gift. Don't think that if you ask for somthing god will always give it to you. I talk with god as a friend alot but sometimes I will ocasionaly ask him for somthing, somtimes he gives it to me and other times he doesn't. Rember that just because god is generous dosen't mean he is your slave. Ocasionaly thoiugh, yes, he will give you somthing you don't need but want. I didn't NEED a drink then, I could have waited, but I desperately wanted one and god gave it to me. YOU CAN'T CONTROL GOD, HE WON'T GIVE YOU EVERTHYTHING YOU WANT.

Conclusion: god gives us a friend, emotional suport, and sometimes a gift(for me it was juice boxes.) He lets us vent, makes us feel good about ourselves, gives us a new look at life, plus you get to live forever.

**joey11223** · 08-04-2007 02:11 PM

joey go say his opinions/queries though pleasies

.

OK..

1. You said the reward of Heaven is a pretty big reason. If i became Christian for that wouldn't it be selfish, only believing in some guy( who in my inner core i don't), just to get into heaven.

2. As a more scientific person, i asked my friend what this companionship is, can he see God with him, like an invisible friend. Does he hold conversations with God. Or... has he made himself believe something grater is watching him and somehow cares for him. He told me he does speak to God and that i could too. Since that would be my ultimate proof and i would believe in a God if he truly talked to me. I seriously sat with my friend and prayed with him for God to come to me that day or in my sleep and talk with me. Now that didn't happen, you might say because i had a closed mind, but i was generally interested to see if his strong belief is true, surely if God wanted me to believe he would have come?

3. Isn't this quite negative? If a family member dies, surely my friends and family should help me through it, i should not isolate myself and stay with God. Also again does he literally speak to you to comfort you, i am never given true examples of what he says.

4. Not exactly fair. Surely as a Christian you live for God, as an Atheist, all i can live for is other people, helping my own kind. Also in a way, doesn't the fact that, to me, this world came about by evolution and looking at the tiny percentages this happened. I would actually find the world and the animals that evolved even more amazing? But again you get depressive people where ever you go.

5. Interesting, so these drinks materialized or... they were already there, your Uncle hadn't told you and you happened to look under his jacket after you prayed? Was this your favorite flavor juice? I would have assumed God would give plain water, since that was his "invention".

6. At the end you enforce the Heaven bit, to me it is the main attraction to religion, i mean w all fear death. But it seems a self centered reason to join, just to save my ass. I'm not going to ignore all my beliefs for that, i'm sorry gut like i said before, i can't believe in something, i can't believe in.

7. About the drink again, you asked for it, God gave you it.

Can you tell me why you got a drink when you didn't NEED it, but in the case that i give, the persons prayer was not answered.

Ok two years ago now my mum got breast cancer. Luckily it hadn't spread but at the same time it wasn't exactly the most non aggressive cancer there is or anything. The majority of my family isn't religious. MY mum is rather agnostic, but at the age of 7, when i questioned Santa, i also questioned God, so i was/am more Atheist. The only very strong Christian was my Dads mum( died last year, very bad heart attacks

). She prayed that my mum wouldn't have to have a partial mastectomy, which the doctors had said would have to be most of her breast tissue, that the radiotherapy itself would cure her. Unfortunately that wasn't the case and they actually had to do a partial mastectomy on both breasts as they feared the other one had cancer cells too.

Now praying to God taht she woldn't have to lose her Breats and have implants wasn't exactly a selfish prayer, your begging for drink when you truly didn't NEED it would slightly more selfish. So was it because my mum was not Christian that God didn't get rid of her cancer, or because my mum having her breasts removed was part of some plan of his?( don't see what plan that could be in all honesty).

Apart from not being a Christian, my mum is like the nicest person i know. She et my dad stay with us even after he left us for three years while he was depressed, then he left again and doesn't like her. Yet she still isn't angry at him!( i am). She hardly ever gets cross, she works really hard, although she works in Genetics, is it punished for her working in a sinful science, although she using bacteria only, not stem cells or anything, and it could cure diseases.

I just don't understand why God gives you Juice and wouldn't help my mum get over cancer without mastectomy's, oh and PLEASE PLEASE don't give me " Oh but God stopped the cancer spreading" SHIT! The doctors did! If she hadn't of gone to the doctors she would probably be dead right now as they had caught it when it spread to both breasts, lymph nodes would have been next. On top of that she has to have hormone suppressants because it's a cancer that feeds on estrogen, so she suffers from hot sweats and nightmares and constantly migraines because of a hormone imbalance she has to save to stop the cancer coming back.

I'm sorry if i'm getting angry and attacking now but thinking about it again has made me upset, why did you deserve bloody nice juice when you didn't need it and she didn't deserve her breasts! WTF is that, again is it because she isn't Christian? So God is all loving, but only to those who worship him i suppose. The rest really can go to Hell eh? I can really feel the love, Jesus tells us to love everyone no matter what, i guess God doesn't follow that though. AARGH

**Howie** · 08-04-2007 02:26 PM

Because I have many reservations about faith and religion, my questions may come across as trying to sandbag your efforts.
I assure you they are not!

How is the word of God suppose to be revealed to everyone?

Thanks

**Universal Mind** · 08-04-2007 03:26 PM

Is God infinitely powerful?

If you say that he is not, then thanks for answering the question.

If you say that he is, then please explain why suffering exists when God could make it completely unnecessary. (Please pay superclose attention to the wording of that issue before you discuss it.) Thanks.

**skysaw** · 08-04-2007 03:48 PM

To the OP: You answer the question "Why turn to God?" Suppose I already have or am not interested in the things that you say God offers his followers? Would there still be an answer to the question of why I should turn to God?

**Sandform** · 08-05-2007 01:07 AM

Originally Posted by joey11223

joey go say his opinions/queries though pleasies

.

OK..

=( I'm sorry Joey. All that sounds like a pain in the arse.

**Lucid_boy** · 08-05-2007 04:33 AM

1.If you became a christian for that reason alone yes that would be rather selfish. I didn't mean that was THE reason to believe in god but it is one of the benefits of belief. you'd also have to believe in your core.

2. Depending on were you are in your relationship with god you can see god walking with you. some christians may argue against this but thats how it works for me. yes, sometimes god speaks to me. I get an Idea in my head once in a while that, no matter how I think about it, my brain screams that the idea was god speaking to me.

3. yes this may seem kind of harsh. you should definately share your greif with your family, but what I mean by that is that god is extra support.

4.no. I do think that followers of god see the world in a more positive out look. Instead of, "man I don't have an MP3 player", a christian is more likely to think, wow, it's a bummer that I don't have an MP3 player but I do have a nice house, a warm safe bed, food to eat, ect.

5.nop. no one told me about the juice. I prayed for god to help me deal with my thirst or to meak it go away and then I began to feel unexplainably sleepy I moved some stuff to lay down and presto, cherry juice boxes. Yes cherry is my favorite. I don't know why god would give me juice rather than water.

6. I phrased this statement wrong, the reason to join is a belief in god, a benefit in joining is heaven.

7. Firstly joey I am sorry for your mother and I apologize for making you angry. My answer is going to sound flakey but I don't know why god does what he does. The bible says that god told someone, I forget who, that his thoughts are not our thoughts and that his ways are not our ways. Meaning that he is on a whole diffrent level, his actions are thoughts are better and smatter than the humans. I really do feel bad that I got juice and that your mom had to have a mastectomy. If I could change things I would have given up my juice boxes to allow your mom to keep her breasts. (sorry if that sounds rude or crude.)

**Lucid_boy** · 08-05-2007 04:34 AM

well howie, through the bible for one, that whole thing is nothing BUT gods word. Through dreams and visions, through the little way that god talks to us each day and through priests.

**Lucid_boy** · 08-05-2007 04:39 AM

God IS all powerful. Suffering exsists ,but it isn't neccecary, because it is a human mistake. God doesn't like suffering and dosen't cause anyone to suffer. It is humans, adam and eve sinned and that brought suffering and pain into the world. It is the devils realm, suffering and pain, he controls it along with random occurances. As for the neccecity of suffering, it isn't neccecary but it was caused by humans and is under the control of the devil. right now god and the devil only fight each other in little ways but when the WAR starts, god will defeat suffering. God hasn't killed suffering yet because the war hasn't started.

**spiritofthewolf** · 08-05-2007 04:40 AM

i love how people say..if God exsist why doesnt he end world suffering or why doesnt he do this or why doesnt he do that...

The fact of the matter is, he doesnt have to do anything...why? because He is God.. He doesnt have to prove anything to us...Why should he have to?

He already Proved his power by creating us...Everything after (including world suffering) is mankinds fault...

**Lucid_boy** · 08-05-2007 04:43 AM

yes sky saw. god constantly renews our strength and allows us to do things we wouldn't be able to do on our own. An extreme example of this is gods parting of the red sea through moses. A less extreme example of this is when god helps someone survive somthing, or do somthing without injury, when injury or death should , by example of the past, occur.

**Lucid_boy** · 08-05-2007 04:45 AM

I feel bad for joey as well. I KNOW THAT SOME OF YOU MAY SEE SPIRIT OF THE WOLFS POST AS AN INVITATION OR A REASON TO ARGUE BUT PLEASE REMEMBER THAT THIS THREAD IS FOR LEARNING NOT ARGUING.

**spiritofthewolf** · 08-05-2007 04:57 AM

I didnt mean for my comment to sound rude.. I am just speaking the truth...

Alot of people dont understand that at this very moment their are spirits everywhere.. Good and Bad...This earth is a battleground.. Angels VS Demons..And they are fighting for our Spirits.. If we put our trust in the LORD then we are SAVED From the demons and the pits of Hell and granted everlasting life...

What sort of hurts me and sort of confuses me is that people wont/dont believe in God and Jesus but know 110% that one day they are going to die....You dont think after we die there is a place we go???

All I can is this life isnt even the beginning..Its just a preparing us for what is to come....

A pastor put it best when I was in jail before I turned my life over to God and Jesus he said "I like to think of the BIBLE as a meaning..."

(B)asic
(I)nstructions
(B)efore
(L)eaving
(E)arth

Alot of people fail to understand this life and this world...I guess thats why Christians are alot of the times turned away from...Because we Understand..When we preach to you, we hope you will listen...Just like Jesus hopes you will too...

Please if you have yet to repent from your sins and ask Jesus for forgiveness and to have him enter you life... Do So now...Because Tomorrow could be too late....

God bless You All

Spiritofthewolf

**Lucid_boy** · 08-05-2007 05:10 AM

Amen brother wolf. I like the (B)asic
(I)nstructions
(B)before
(L)eaving
(E)arth thing. It is really cool.

**Universal Mind** · 08-05-2007 05:37 AM

Originally Posted by Lucid_boy

God IS all powerful. Suffering exsists ,but it isn't neccecary, because it is a human mistake. God doesn't like suffering and dosen't cause anyone to suffer. It is humans, adam and eve sinned and that brought suffering and pain into the world. It is the devils realm, suffering and pain, he controls it along with random occurances. As for the neccecity of suffering, it isn't neccecary but it was caused by humans and is under the control of the devil. right now god and the devil only fight each other in little ways but when the WAR starts, god will defeat suffering. God hasn't killed suffering yet because the war hasn't started.

God could zap it all out right now without there being any problem with doing that. Right? Well, he hasn't. So he is either apathetic or does not exist, at least not in the way you are describing him.

Originally Posted by spiritofthewolf

i love how people say..if God exsist why doesnt he end world suffering or why doesnt he do this or why doesnt he do that...

The fact of the matter is, he doesnt have to do anything...why? because He is God.. He doesnt have to prove anything to us...Why should he have to?

He already Proved his power by creating us...Everything after (including world suffering) is mankinds fault...

It's not about proof of power. It's about being good. The thing you are describing is an arrogant asshole without a conscience.

**Lucid_boy** · 08-05-2007 06:05 AM

I guess the whole god not letting people out of hell thing is really hard for us to explain. You have to read the bible and then you'd get it. *sigh8 if silverzero were here he could explain it. I think he is the smartest of us and has the most experience. I have only really belived in god for about 2-4 months.

**Universal Mind** · 08-05-2007 06:07 AM

Originally Posted by Lucid_boy

I guess the whole god not letting people out of hell thing is really hard for us to explain. You have to read the bible and then you'd get it. *sigh8 if silverzero were here he could explain it. I think he is the smartest of us and has the most experience. I have only really belived in god for about 2-4 months.

Don't worry. I have been having this conversation ever since this forum was started. Nobody has ever been able to explain how the idea makes sense.

**Lucid_boy** · 08-05-2007 06:32 AM

To my dear atheist friends,
As a few of you know I am an extremely accepting christian. I have admitted whn you were right about certain things (neuroscience, microevolution, science isn't like a religon, ect.) and I have been nice to all of you. Please return that niceness and acceptance by NOT arguing/debating about god on this thread.

May god bless you all even if you don't believe,

-Lucid Boy

This next lesson will be about finding god, once you have chosen to embrace god and accept him and his son you will need to know how to get to know him and learn what he is all about. I remind you that all questions about getting to know god are welcome here.

Bible lesson 2: Getting to know god.

1. Read the bible. This is the biggest thing you can do to get to know god, all of gods rules, laws, and words of love and comfort are here. Read it and you will get to know all about god and his wonderful son.

2. Talk to preist/ other clergymen. These people are god geniuses. They went to school, just to learn about god and helping his people. Alot of these guys know the bible inside and out and have answers to alot of difficult questions.

3. other books. Alot of people that are well educated on the subject of god write books, read them.

4. prayer. You can learn alot about god by the thigs that he tells you when you pray.

5. Movies and media. I don't generally suggest this but there are a few movies that can help you to get to know god. Passion of the christ is one of them as well as the old davey and goliath cartoons.

6. Other christians. we will try and help you to get to know god and teach you about him.

In conclusion: there are lots of ways to get to know god. It can be confusing but once you get into it, learning about god can be alot of fun and it can help you to meet new people. please remember that this is not a debate thread and that I will accept all questions relating to getting to know god.

**Howie** · 08-05-2007 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Lucid_boy

well howie, through the bible for one, that whole thing is nothing BUT gods word. Through dreams and visions, through the little way that god talks to us each day and through priests.

No no no.
I do thank you for the reply. But I have to be more specific.

10 million uneducated Africans that won't live to see 20 years old.

A billion Chinese that are exposed to, "The word of God."

North Koreans.

The entire Middle East, who is brain washed to believe in an entire different set of ideas.

Me?

**skysaw** · 08-05-2007 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by skysaw

To the OP: You answer the question "Why turn to God?" Suppose I already have or am not interested in the things that you say God offers his followers? Would there still be an answer to the question of why I should turn to God?

Originally Posted by Lucid_boy

yes sky saw. god constantly renews our strength and allows us to do things we wouldn't be able to do on our own. An extreme example of this is gods parting of the red sea through moses. A less extreme example of this is when god helps someone survive somthing, or do somthing without injury, when injury or death should , by example of the past, occur.

But my strength is renewed by other sources (family, art, love), and I don't feel the need to part the sea or do other things that I already cannot. Do I still have a reason to convert?

**joey11223** · 08-05-2007 03:23 PM

oh man sorry for my explosion there, you want me to delete that post?

Also with the juice, i am confused, so did God actually materialize that juice, so before you asked there was no juice in that car? Or did God guide you to look under the coat, which you would have done next anyway no doubt.

**SilverZero** · 08-05-2007 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by Lucid_boy

I guess the whole god not letting people out of hell thing is really hard for us to explain. You have to read the bible and then you'd get it. *sigh8 if silverzero were here he could explain it. I think he is the smartest of us and has the most experience. I have only really belived in god for about 2-4 months.

Haha, man, I'm not in this for the recognition, but I appreciate the compliment. I'm not the smartest of us - everybody here has made great arguments in the few days I've been at DV - but I do have 10+ years experience learning why I believe what I do.

Anyway, I would love to share in the debate here. I'll be back on in a few hours, and I'll see what I can see in your post. Briefly, though, I will say most people don't believe second-hand accounts of miracles. I've got stories of open wounds healing instantly, but they don't do much good.

"Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

**Sandform** · 08-05-2007 04:26 PM

I don't own a bible so I can't read it to verify it...but you say god doesn't want anyone to suffer, and the bible is the word of God...however these various exerpts from this video i'm going to link that state various areas where it obviously tells people to inflict suffering. The most disgusting of them being 7 minutes and 13 seconds into the video where it condones, and infact says it is desirable, to have slaves, and beat them, as long as they don't die.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkXOwBIRX7Y

Keep in mind I didn't make the video, I find it rather direct and to the point, and probably a little offensive, but you can't say he doesn't make a valid point. Like I said, I don't have my Bible (I left it in my old home, and I had never really read it since I gave up on religion when I was like...eight years old).
And i'm not putting you down, i'm simply asking for answers, who knows perhaps if you have valid explaination I'll believe you. Probably not though.

Edit: You may want to take a look at all of his video's and come up with valid arguements against what he says as well in those. You will most likely be posed with these questions by other people some day too. If he was lieing about the bible then I appologize. Like I said, I don't own a bible and I am not the creator of the video, so I guess today it falls on you to be a provider of information. In fact i'm sure if you look at comments posted underneath it you will find various christains who have explanations on how they can justify the bible and its contents.

**Lucid_boy** · 08-05-2007 07:42 PM

well the things in that video were all old testament and alot of it was before the promise land. The thing about god is, he likes to change his mind about stuff. He is god so he can do this but the does change his mind about certian things. When jesus came to earth alot of that stuff changed. There was no more slave owning, no more paligamy, not more marrying your family, god likes to change his mind and half the stuff described in the video was done away with in when the slaves reached the promise land and the other half was done away with when jesus shows up.