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    1. #1
      Member becomingagodo's Avatar
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      Well i read a article about intelligence and sleeping also theories of sleep. The article was about memory in higher brain species and it was saying that animals associated with using their brain have a higher defense against sleep they quoted human and dolphin and whales having a more advanced defense system for sleep. The article i read was saying something similar to lucid dreaming called ubersleep and they was arguing against it saying that your going against your body natural sleep system. Well basically they were saying that your brain need to be unconscious to do a certain function they said something about higher memory.

      Now this is my point althought i am for lucid dreaming it a bit worring to me. Why would your brain go to such a lenght to shut down prefrontal cortex?

      Well i thought it could be a evolutionary all species have this defense but then what for? Well i could not be linked to intelligence because simple study of lower species then us would show you that all species have this effect for sleep. Would such a lower species like rabbit need something to stop prefrontal cortex to sleep when their proberly driven by basic instinct more then intellect plus you can take even lower animals if you want.

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      Rotaredom Howie's Avatar
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      I am going to contradict myself a little to a post i justreplied to -- > A Potential Side-affect Of Lucid

      Things that make me question the same thing.
      - Does our conscious mind need rest? (although our minds DO believe in a dream that it is real. But we ae not engaged in thought processing)

      - The transition. Vibrations, sounds etc. It does not seem common natural body function. (more like a fight)
      - Now this is my point although i am for lucid dreaming it a bit worring to me. Why would your brain go to such a lenght to shut down prefrontal cortex?[/b]

      Why the fight. Why such the effort if it was normal? Are we conditioned to believe it is harder than it really is. Many do believe so.

      Is tapping consciously into our subconscious any worse than our subconscious mind mingling with our conscious mind by way of meditation and other practices that are highly acclaimed

    3. #3
      Member becomingagodo's Avatar
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      Things that make me question the same thing.
      - Does our conscious mind need rest? (although our minds DO believe in a dream that it is real. But we ae not engaged in thought processing)

      - The transition. Vibrations, sounds etc. It does not seem common natural body function. (more like a fight)[/b]
      Why the fight. Why such the effort if it was normal? Are we conditioned to believe it is harder than it really is. Many do believe so.

      Is tapping consciously into our subconscious any worse than our subconscious mind mingling with our conscious mind by way of meditation and other practices that are highly acclaimed[/b]
      Yes but it deals with sleep a fundamental process your prefrontal cortex is knocked out when sleeping to lucid dream your trying to keep all your thought theirfore prefrontal cortex online which is a fight as you described and doesnt seem natural.

      The effect of sleep deprivation i.e. not sleeping proberly our not the same as the effect of meditation. Should we be messing around with our sleep that effect alot of thing like memory, intelligence, speech e.t.c.

      This take me back to original question why would your brain go to such length to shut down prefrontal cortex duting sleep?

    4. #4
      Member becomingagodo's Avatar
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      I not against lucid dreaming but i guess that it not natural theirfore we should be able to discuss if it bad for you espically the effect of not sleeping properly is really bad the average person in this forum proberly attempts a lucid dream everyday now it might not effect in the short run i.e. week or a year but what about five or ten years.
      Their is a defense system against lucid dreaming if we find out how or why i think this would allow better technique.

      This remind me of the chines first emperor who wanted immortallity so he took mercury tablet everday now in the short run their no effect but ten years later he was insane i would hate this to happen to somebody on this forum even the other lucid dreaming people in that crappy ld4all.com website does not deserve this.

    5. #5
      Rotaredom Howie's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by becomingagodo View Post
      I not against lucid dreaming but i guess that it not natural theirfore we should be able to discuss if it bad for you espically the effect of not sleeping properly is really bad the average person in this forum proberly attempts a lucid dream everyday now it might not effect in the short run i.e. week or a year but what about five or ten years.
      Their is a defense system against lucid dreaming if we find out how or why i think this would allow better technique. [code]

      This remind me of the chines first emperor who wanted immortallity so he took mercury tablet everday now in the short run their no effect but ten years later he was insane i would hate this to happen to somebody on this forum even the other lucid dreaming people in that crappy ld4all.com website does not deserve this.
      [/b]
      Lucid dreaming has been around for a long long long time.
      Perhaps as I have suggested it is our own conditioning that is fighting this state of awareness.
      there are cultures have learned the LD technique form birth. It is no obstacle for them.

      Our bodies have numerous defense mechanism. That may be jumping the gun a little, no?


    6. #6
      Member becomingagodo's Avatar
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      Lucid dreaming has been around for a long long long time.
      Perhaps as I have suggested it is our own conditioning that is fighting this state of awareness.
      there are cultures have learned the LD technique form birth. It is no obstacle for them.

      Our bodies have numerous defense mechanism. That may be jumping the gun a little, no?[/b]
      What culture exept the sherman and the bhuddhist. Well it could be conditioning but then i looking to see if it chemical that shut down prefrontal cortex which i think it is well i have some links that says that state of unconsious is caused by chemical release. The most fundamental defense mechanism are for your brain and sleep seem to be number 2 just below control stimulation. yes it maybe jumping the gun but why would your brain goto such lenght to shut down prefrontal cortex? to think seem to be the most fundamental thing and self awearness is a fundamental part proberly the most fundamental part of thinking and yet were not one bit awear in our dreams.

      Also taking from birth one majour step is self recogination now when were a baby why would we condition ourself to not be awear is seem to abit counterproductive. Plus they spend about half the day asleep with a long time dreaming why aint they building self awearness in dreams as well as the real world.

    7. #7
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      Even if lucid dreaming was bad for you, so are many other things. For example, most people drink alcohol now and then. They're having fun by drinking it, it hurts them from the inside, yet they experience fun. Sure, you shouldn't drink too much, but a little alcohol hurts too. Even if these people live 3 - 5 years less than they would live, what does it matter for them? Maybe they would be very unhappy in their life (= stress) and die anyway, a lot earlier. Or maybe they would live unhappier for a longer period, and don't experience the joy they would've experienced. OK, now I'm a little overreacting. I personally don't really care much about alcohol.

      I don't believe lucid dreaming is bad for you, though. When you're in the deep sleep stages of your sleep (which is around 4 - 5 hours (if you sleep 8 hours a night)), your conscious mind is idle). Besides, in normal dreams you're conscious too. If that wasn't the case, you wouldn't be able to remember your dreams. The rational part of your mind seems to be missing in normal dreams. However, I only believe this is the case because we tend to believe this is our reality. So when we're in dream, we tend to believe that's our reality, because we're there, you know?

      See my point?
      Sure, why not?
      [broken link removed]

    8. #8
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      I don't really know about it being bad for you.

      I think about it this way:

      I learned the concept of lucid dreaming when I was so young I don't even know how old I was. It happened to me naturally, learning how to get out of nightmares, and I took the reigns for a while and started teaching myself a few "lucid tricks."

      There is nothing about this natural learning process that tells me it's either unnnatural or harmful.

      Remember that there are a good number of people who have experienced the "Well, there was a time that I realized I was dreaming" phenomenon, but didn't know what to do with the experience - more than enough, in my experience alone, to think that dreaming consciously is not somehow "abnormal." It is mostly the period after realizing being in a dream state that one has trouble experiencing, and I think that has more to do with the "deer-in-headlights" concept that comes on, when realizing you're lucid, for the first few times, not that it's something we're not supposed to experience.
      Of course the experience is different than regular dreaming, but is it more harmful? Tests would have to be done on the long-term effects of lucid dreaming, on a number of subjects, versus the long-term effect of unconscious dreaming, from the same number of subjects, to figure out a question like that. I don't know of such a study that's been done, so far.
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    9. #9
      Member becomingagodo's Avatar
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      Part of the frontal lobe, the prefrontal cortex, has several functions specifically coupled with it. Judgment, impulse control, attention, and visual association have all been related to this region of the cerebral cortex (8). A recent study has shown that the prefrontal cortex, usually the most active area of the brain in rested individuals, becomes more active as a person remains awake for long periods of time (3), (4). This region regenerates during the first stage of sleep, giving a person the ability to feel somewhat refreshed after only a short nap (5). The length of the first stage of sleep cycle is somewhat dependant upon how long the person had previously been awake. The longer the period of wakefulness, the longer the brain remains in the first stage of sleep. When the brain enters into the REM stage of sleep the prefrontal cortex is active once more.

      The implications of this data seem to be fairly important in supporting the location of the I-function within the brain. The prefrontal cortex is active whenever a person is awake, no matter how little sleep they have had. Also, this area is active while dreaming. Since the individual is aware of him or herself during both of these instances, but is not aware during the stages of sleep when the prefrontal cortex is shut down, it seems logical that the I-function is located within this region. This indicates that the I-function is what is resting and regenerating during the first stage of sleep. It would be interesting to study prefrontal cortex activity while a person is conscious, but unaware of his or her actions, due to an influence such as drugs or alcohol. According to the results of the sleep deprivation studies little or no activity should be seen in the prefrontal cortex at anytime when the individual is unaware of his or herself.[/b]
      The prefrontal cortex regenerates itself during the first stage of sleep and that I function is regenerating that why their no consciousness or self awearness. I think i might nap throught the first sleep stage and then try wake back to bed this also might explained why we dont lucid dream naturally also this could mean it more benefitial then bad.
      I learned the concept of lucid dreaming when I was so young I don't even know how old I was. It happened to me naturally, learning how to get out of nightmares, and I took the reigns for a while and started teaching myself a few "lucid tricks."

      There is nothing about this natural learning process that tells me it's either unnnatural or harmful. [/b]
      Well have you seen Donnie Darko in one scene he invent special glasses for parent will basically put happy picture so when baby is sleeping he wont be exposed to darkness. This could seem benefitial but then the sciences teacher said how do you know darkness is something bad maybe you need it to develope proberly. Getting out of nightmare might be good but how do you know that nightmares our a fundamental thing for your developement.
      Can we not talk about dream and alchohol because numerous studies show that sleep deprivation is badder the alchohol abuse and plus their a reason a person would drink and it not nice unlike lucid dreaming.
      Well at least i know the anwser why you brain goes to such length to shut down prefrontal cortex and have a new technique but i guess i still got problem with other function of brain which our proberly being screwed with during lucid dreaming like memory e.t.c.

      Well next question if we our lucid dreaming our we still regenerating function of our brain?

    10. #10
      Rotaredom Howie's Avatar
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      Your argument about the preferential cortex is valid.
      If you take notice techniques for lucid dreaming are best rendered when your body has gotten its need sleep.
      This is why it is so difficult to be self aware in a dream before your mind is ready. Our bodies do what is required for it's own well being.

    11. #11
      Member becomingagodo's Avatar
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      Your argument about the preferential cortex is valid.
      If you take notice techniques for lucid dreaming are best rendered when your body has gotten its need sleep.
      This is why it is so difficult to be self aware in a dream before your mind is ready. Our bodies do what is required for it's own well being.[/b]
      I guess lucid dreaming isnt bad it just how evolution turn out in higher species because a working prefrontal cortex is better then lucid dreaming for survival of the species. This would also explain how meditation causes lucid dreams because it awearness without the need for prefrontal cortex. It also proberly get healed first because it the most improtant part of your brain and you need it for learning which suggest why NON REM with prefrontal cortex is first and that REM i.e. learning is last.

      I was getting abit scared then and plus the anger of doing something that is bad for me.

    12. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by Howetzer View Post
      Your argument about the preferential cortex is valid.
      If you take notice techniques for lucid dreaming are best rendered when your body has gotten its need sleep.
      This is why it is so difficult to be self aware in a dream before your mind is ready. Our bodies do what is required for it's own well being.

      [/b]
      Agreed 100%

      Out of the 5+ dreams I have a night, only one of them might be lucid, and this every few days, or whenever I have to will-power to attempt a WILD. So over a 3 day span, 14/15 dreams were non-lucid. Maybe 10/15 at lowest, and sometimes 15/15 with no lucids. The required unaware REM sleep is being accomplished.

      I can't see any harm being done here.
      spam removed

    13. #13
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      Aight lets say that your prefrotnal cortex is in fact trying to defend itself and shutting itslef down. Now, what if matrix was real? What if this was only an attempt to censor the true capabilities of our mind? to keep as prisoners? Why do you think that lucid dreaming is not as widely popular as sports for example?
      Lucid Dreams: 6
      Average Control - 7/10
      Average Clarity - 7.5/10
      Average Vividness - 8.5/10

    14. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by Howetzer View Post
      Your argument about the preferential cortex is valid.
      If you take notice techniques for lucid dreaming are best rendered when your body has gotten its need sleep.
      This is why it is so difficult to be self aware in a dream before your mind is ready. Our bodies do what is required for it's own well being.

      [/b]
      That's a good point. Lucid dreams happen much, much more easily and effectively toward the end of a sleep. I think I have only had two lucid dreams just a few hours into sleep, and they were very short and a bit blurry. All of the others happened after about seven or more hours of sleep. Come to think of it, they have always been the last dream I had before waking up. However, I question whether that has something to do with being in a lighter state of sleep because I am so close to waking up.
      Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
      God cannot destroy himself because He is Omnipotent.


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