Thread: How to have an Instant WILD

Originally Posted by Aeroproxy

for the dudes who sorta don't know what he's talking about he's talking about like sorta twitching when ur going into WILD. so basically a FILD but renamed. am i not correct?

You also don't know what your talking about as you haven't read either the textbook or the workbook. This isn't remotely anything like FILD, find a dictionary and look up the word phantom. This is open source information that you can have in seconds. What ever happened to good old fashioned inquisitiveness and learning.

Originally Posted by MasterMind

When I first saw this I immediately thought it was scam, but then I read it because it was free and that could not hurt anyone. When I read it I thought it was just a DEILD and it is, but much better explained than anywhere else and with techniques and much more detail to each step of the first 10 seconds after awakening. I was really concerned of the conscious awakening part and thought it was impossible, but I succeded the FIRST night and when I woke up I heard some ringing in my ears and listened to that then outside noicies disturbed me so I went to unconscious sleep. But the NEXT night I did the same but without getting disturbed and I got a lucid dream! Sorry I doubted you mcwillis and thank you for informing me this book!

Congratulations! You put in the effort of reading the book, set a goal with defined actions and had a lucid dream.

Yet again we are going to have to mull over the semantics of a DEILD because it seems that people don't understand the basics.

Quoting the Dream Guide Team of this forum on their description of DEILD's:

"However, if you are at the end of a REM phase you won't be able to DEILD."

Where in the book does it say you must practice as soon as you awaken from a dream? Mr. Raduga is referring to when you awaken at the end of a REM phase.

Quoting the Dream Guide Team of this forum on their description of DEILD's:

"In order to DEILD you have to have good dream recall. Not only so you won't forget your DEILD adventures, but also because you need to be aware enough of your dreams that you know when one has just ended. It is suggested that you have your dream recall at 10 or more dreams remembered per week before you attempt to DEILD."

Where does Mr. Raduga mention in the book that one must cultivate dream recall for Indirect Techniques to be successful? He doesn't because he is referring to when you awaken at the end of a REM cycle. 50% of students have a lucid dream or an obe over the course of a three day seminar like in the photo above. Do you think they all have great dream recall? Statistically most of them would have a very low level of dream recall.

I read the book once and I'm reading again to do the tasks now, too.I just have to say: It's AMAZING! I thought I already knew almost everything about conscious entering a dream because I read almost anything related to it. But after the first chapters I realized how much I've been missing (Forum tutorials are WAY to short so you really can understand them). For Example I always tried Wild in the evening because I thought I could never wake up conscious. I'm now trying the tasks and already got 2 short lucids from the indirect techniques (AND 1 Dild because I thought of the book in my dream ). Thank you very much for sharing the information about the book!

Originally Posted by mcwillis

Yet again we are going to have to mull over the semantics of a DEILD because it seems that people don't understand the basics. One doesn't learn from skimming books, only reading them.

Quoting the Dream Guide Team of this forum on their description of DEILD's:

"However, if you are at the end of a REM phase you won't be able to DEILD."

Where in the book does it say you must practice as soon as you awaken from a dream? Mr. Raduga is referring to when you awaken at the end of a REM phase.

Quoting the Dream Guide Team of this forum on their description of DEILD's:

"In order to DEILD you have to have good dream recall. Not only so you won't forget your DEILD adventures, but also because you need to be aware enough of your dreams that you know when one has just ended. It is suggested that you have your dream recall at 10 or more dreams remembered per week before you attempt to DEILD."

Where does Mr. Raduga mention in the book that one must cultivate dream recall for Indirect Techniques to be successful? He doesn't because he is referring to when you awaken at the end of a REM cycle. 50% of students have a lucid dream or an obe over the course of a three day seminar like in the photo above. Do you think they all have great dream recall? Statistically most of them would have a very low level of dream recall.

Derp.

I already read that post, and strongly disagreed with it on the premise that the DGT is not the end-all-be-all decider of technique definitions. One, I've had DEILDs at the end of REM, so that invalidates the first point by counter-example. And two, I've found recall isn't terribly necessary for lucid dreaming as a whole. It's incredibly easy to recall lucids compared to normal dreams, and as long as the intent is there productive things can happen. Including recognizing end-of-cycle wake-ups. I know that's true because I always remember my wake-ups each night even if I don't recall any dreams.

Don't be so quick to make decisions and judgments based on the insights of others.

And please don't post the shame shitty argument again. You're taking up valuable internets.

I'm sure we would be interested to know your techniques for having WILD's in less than a minute.

Sure, it's called a DEILD, which is what this guy is teaching. The fact that there's been so many results is a testament to how he presents it more than anything else.

I for one know the stuff he's teaching will work, because I've successfully utilized most of the transitioning techniques in there myself. Again, it's a good resource, but to call this something other than DEILD is silly.

I don't know if it is a DEILD or not, but it doesn't matter it's a lucid dream induction technique that works for me that is all that matters.

I am going to try this tonight again

Sweet dreams!

But I only have one question. Mr Raduga is mainly talking about how to induce a phase like an OBE and not lucid dreams, he does mention lucid dream once though.
But what phase is a lucid dream then?

Originally Posted by MasterMind

But I only have one question. Mr Raduga is mainly talking about how to induce a phase like an OBE and not lucid dreams, he does mention lucid dream once though.
But what phase is a lucid dream then?

Mr. Raduga mentions lucid dreams many times. He uses the term 'The Phase' to encompass the phenomenon of Astral Projection, Out of Body Experience and Lucid Dreaming.

I'm going to be doing it again tomorrow morning. Once again congratulations on having a lucid dream on your 2nd day of practice

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

I already read that post, and strongly disagreed with it on the premise that the DGT is not the end-all-be-all decider of technique definitions. One, I've had DEILDs at the end of REM, so that invalidates the first point by counter-example.

I have posted that I have had success with this in non REM sleep which means that it cannot be a DEILD method. Indirect Techniques are exactly the same as Direct techniques. If Direct Techniques can be used at any time of the day then this illustrates that this isn't a DEILD method. If you can post a link for a DEILD method from this forum that can be used at any time of the day without the need to exit sleep then I will apolgise to you.

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

And two, I've found recall isn't terribly necessary for lucid dreaming as a whole.

This may be the case for you but for the vast majority of people it is absolutely crucial to develop dream recall. Because of this fact DEILD requires training to succeed. Explain to me why 50% of Mr. Raduga's students have an OBE or lucid within three days of practice without any prior dream training?

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

Don't be so quick to make decisions and judgments based on the insights of others.

I don't as I have been researching this subject for twenty one years by experts in this field.

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

And please don't post the shame shitty argument again. You're taking up valuable internets.

I will when you clearly haven't read this thread properly or the books. Your vulgar language only serves to illustrate your immaturity and lack of knowledge concerning the subject.

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

I for one know the stuff he's teaching will work, because I've successfully utilized most of the transitioning techniques in there myself. Again, it's a good resource, but to call this something other than DEILD is silly.

Then explain to me how I was able to have success during non REM sleep?

i had read this book a while ago. i think its great and find it irritating that so many people are posting what amounts to "Yeah its the same ole crap, i've seen it before, why bother?" Jaded lucid dreamers, who would have thought it?

Most of it is basically a detailed course on getting OBEs with a slew of techniques that are different from every other OBE book I have read. The way he lays it out and breaks it down makes it pretty clear and easy to follow.

as mentioned most of the techniques are based upon staying still while awakening from sleep. he calls them 'indirect techniques.' one would not have to be dreaming and for most of them one doesn't have to do any sort of dream re-entry or visualizations. they are very 'mental-physical' techniques aimed at body separation and inducing OBE's, which are also useful for lucid dreaming.

i consider it different from your standard DEILD in that the DREAM EXIT part is not necessary, though it is wasteful to split hairs over this, and one could conceivably simply call them variations. I also consider many of the techniques he talks about to be variations of FILD's, basically the perceived tiny motion of body parts until separation.

my greatest issue with these techniques is that i could never really wake up without moving, though i tried to practice it and condition myself. i plan on re-reading and re-trying some of these in the near future however.

It's very amusing watch people with a common goal get caught up in a silly semantics argument.

Originally Posted by Ketsuyume

It's very amusing watch people with a common goal get caught up in a silly semantics argument.

I sometimes find it amusing too. I consider lucid dreaming an art that requires strict attention to detail and must be approached with a scientific attitude. Ignoring these principles is the reason why there are so many threads and posts on this forum concerning failure. It is clear that a lot of new members fail on their first few attempts because of a lack of knowledge of the dry, hard scientific facts for achieving lucidity whilst dreaming. However, forum fighting is counterproductive when two individuals won't back down!

Originally Posted by mcwillis

I have posted that I have had success with this in non REM sleep which means that it cannot be a DEILD method. Indirect Techniques are exactly the same as Direct techniques. If Direct Techniques can be used at any time of the day then this illustrates that this isn't a DEILD method. If you can post a link for a DEILD method from this forum that can be used at any time of the day without the need to exit sleep then I will apolgise to you.

As I've said before, the phase of sleep doesn't particularly matter, nor does reentry, or the state consciousness before waking. I'll refer you to the first post I made on this thread for my main case, which you've only served to validate.

But since there's a chance you'll have trouble connecting two and two, the definition I gave applies to everything the author recommends beginners start with. Hence he's teaching DEILD.

The transitional techniques taught are the proverbial WILD tool-kit, which can be applied in any WILD attempt.

I mean, I'm surprised this isn't blatantly obvious.

Edit: Also, boom. I use that for DEILD, but it works equally well for your standard WILD. Or, if you thinks that's too conceited of me: this also works for DEILDs.

Originally Posted by mcwillis

This may be the case for you but for the vast majority of people it is absolutely crucial to develop dream recall. Because of this fact DEILD requires training to succeed. Explain to me why 50% of Mr. Raduga's students have an OBE or lucid within three days of practice without any prior dream training?

Because lucids are easy to remember, DEILD is a simple and effective technique for beginners (especially with a tool-kit), and he teaches it well?

Again, the pattern is pretty clear.

Originally Posted by mcwillis

I don't as I have been researching this subject for twenty one years by experts in this field.

You've just proven the point I was making.

Originally Posted by mcwillis

I will when you clearly haven't read this thread properly or the books.

The hypocrisy here is actually kinda funny.

Originally Posted by mcwillis

Your vulgar language only serves to illustrate your immaturity and lack of knowledge concerning the subject.

I hoped it'd serve to point our how ridiculous it is to consecutively copy/paste the same poorly formed argument three times while simultaneously failing to acknowledge and address any points made.

Originally Posted by mcwillis

Then explain to me how I was able to have success during non REM sleep?

I've addressed this. No need to repeat myself, right?

Originally Posted by Ketsuyume

It's very amusing watch people with a common goal get caught up in a silly semantics argument.

Seriously, this is hilarious. ^.^

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

As I've said before, the phase of sleep doesn't particularly matter.

You can't have a DEILD in non REM sleep. You clearly don't understand that you can only dream in REM sleep.

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

Because lucids are easy to remember.

How can you have lucid dreams if you can't remember your dreams in the first place. Naturally occuring lucid dreams without any prior training or desire to have them is rare. Another fact that you are unaware of. To prove my point ask ten elderly people how many lucid dreams they have had in their lives. Many will ask you this question, "What's a lucid dream?"

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

Actually, it serves to point our how ridiculous it is to consecutively copy/paste the same poorly formed argument three times while simultaneously failing to acknowledge and address any points made.

I have acknowledged all of your points and addressed them with facts, not assumption or hearsay.

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

Edit: Also, boom. I use that for DEILD, but it works equally well for your standard WILD. Or, if you thinks that's too conceited of me: this also works for DEILDs.

Your BOOM thread title is: Mzzkc's Comprehensive WILD Guide. And Billybob's tutorial is for WILD's too and not DEILD's.

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

Seriously, this is hilarious.

The hilarity is always pointing at the one who is making a fool of himself. You clearly can't construct valid arguments without backing them up so I am not saying anymore on the matter.

Originally Posted by mcwillis

You can't have a DEILD in non REM sleep. You clearly don't understand that you can only dream in REM sleep.

When you DEILD, you are awake. You don't need to be in REM to dream. You said yourself that this technique worked in NREM sleep while using an alarm which is basically CAN-WILDing, an alternative to DEILD.

"A dream is a succession of images, sounds or emotions that the mind experiences during sleep."

How can you have lucid dreams if you can't remember your dreams in the first place. Naturally occuring lucid dreams without any prior training or desire to have them is rare. Another fact that you are unaware of. To prove my point ask ten elderly people how many lucid dreams they have had in their lives. Many will ask you this question, "What's a lucid dream?"

Lucid dreams are, in fact, much easier to remember. Since you are actually in control of the dream and you are aware that you are dreaming, it is easier to remember, regardless of whether or not you regularly remember your non-lucid dreams. If you cannot remember your dreams, you should work on that before lucid dreaming anyways.

DEILD is essentially a WILD after ending a dream. I'll take Mzzkc's definition of WILDing and add one word to it.

"To fall BACK asleep, into a dream state, while retaining consciousness."

I think the book is pretty good though. He's just basically teaching WILD with an alternative form of DEILD. Didn't read all of it though.

EDIT 2:
Look up CrazyInsane's WILD tutorial (CAN-WILD). He even says it uses the same idea of DEILD, but it isn't Dream Exit.

Originally Posted by mikeac

DEILD is essentially a WILD after ending a dream. I'll take Mzzkc's definition of WILDing and add one word to it.

"To fall BACK asleep, into a dream state, while retaining consciousness."

I think the book is pretty good though. He's just basically teaching WILD with an alternative form of DEILD. Didn't read all of it though.

EDIT:
Oh yeah, forgot to say. DEILD isn't particularly hard to learn. It doesn't require 226 pages of reading.

Yes when one has a DEILD or WILD it is not done in sleep, REM sleep or N-REM sleep. By it's very definition sleep is a natural periodic suspension of consciousness. By me saying it worked in N-REM sleep I should have said it worked during two intervals of N-REM so thankyou for pointing out to me that I must be far more mindful of my use of language and not to be so hasty when someone enrages me. I have also learnt today that research at universities in recent years have discovered that we do definately dream in N-REM sleep. I am now the wiser for that and has opened a wider channel for study. My point right from the start, and still is, that this method is not about dream exit initiated lucid dreams, it is about pure WILD's, which they are as it is not necessary at all to have exited a dream to succeed. By its very definition a DEILD is saying that one has a lucid dream after immediately exiting a dream.

Lucid dreams are not always easy to remember. I can recall several instances where I have remembered having a lucid dream several days after having that lucid dream. This made me realise that I had to take my dream recall training far more seriously. The average person has very poor dream recall which is why for the average person they must cultivate dream recall to be successful with DEILD's. The average person couldn't have a DEILD in a few days as they won't remember having a dream that they have just exited from. If you ask the average person how many dreams they usually have every night they will say none. Mr. Raduga's method does not require any dream recall training at all as it is a method of having WILD's.

I think the book is far, far better than pretty good. Two have us have said that we have had a WILD in a matter of seconds within three days and someone else very close to achieving one. As I said from the start, that is phenomenal.

Originally Posted by mcwillis

You can't have a DEILD in non REM sleep. You clearly don't understand that you can only dream in REM sleep.

I'm glad you already caught yourself on this one.

Originally Posted by mcwillis

How can you have lucid dreams if you can't remember your dreams in the first place. Naturally occuring lucid dreams without any prior training or desire to have them is rare. Another fact that you are unaware of. To prove my point ask ten elderly people how many lucid dreams they have had in their lives. Many will ask you this question, "What's a lucid dream?"

Lucids dreams are exponentially easy to remember compared to normal dreams. I don't know the exact science behind it (still trying to find someone who does), but the activation of the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex probably has a lot to do with it. Since it does play a large role in enabling working memory.

And I don't know how we got on the topic of "naturally occurring lucid dreams" being rare. I thought we were talking about groups of students who deeply desired LDs and were given three days of training.

Originally Posted by mcwillis

I have acknowledged all of your points and addressed them with facts, not assumption or hearsay.

You haven't addressed my main point yet (and you've skimmed over most of the others I've made). Which you've already agreed with, but refuse to admit. Namely, that the basic WILD method he teaches is as close to DEILD as it gets and the tool-kit of techniques he offers can be applied to any WILD. Fundamentally, that's what the book offers as far as WILDs go.

Originally Posted by mcwillis

Your BOOM thread title is: Mzzkc's Comprehensive WILD Guide. And Billybob's tutorial is for WILD's too and not DEILD's.

Given that only two sets of LDs exist, DILDs and WILDs.

DEILDs can only be WILDs.
Therefore, if a technique can be applied to WILD, then the same technique can be applied to DEILD.

"How to WILD" is a technique that can be applied to WILD.
Therefore, "How to WILD" is a a technique that can be applied to DEILD.
QED

Originally Posted by mcwillis

The hilarity is always pointing at the one who is making a fool of himself. You clearly can't construct valid arguments without backing them up so I am not saying anymore on the matter.

Ouch, your personal attacks have cut me pretty deep, bro. I clearly have no choice but to bow before your superior argumentative abilities.

hehe, let's not waste time for arguing about this any more. Why don't you, experiened lucid dreamers, give it a try and see if it works, then come back to evaluate your point?

personally, I found it's hard to "conscious awakening" without alarm, or not open my eyes upon awakening. Guest I should practice more.

Oh, they work just fine. I had 3 WILDs earlier today, during an afternoon nap, two of which used methods presented in the book (I would classify both as DEILDs). I don't think this has really been an argument on whether or not the techniques taught in the book work (they do), it's more of a semantic disagreement, which I feel is important to get out in the open so that proper associations can be made and progress can occur.

Edit: I realize that last sentence was poorly written, as it does not convey my meaning. To rephrase, I feel that placing techniques and methods in their proper sets allows for greater expansion of those tools. Not only do they gain a firm identity and basis for understanding, but they also benefit from every insight learned and all previous work accomplished in that branch of study. Pinning down fundamentals isn't harmful to progress, in fact, it's necessary to prevent needless traversals of a well worn evolutionary path.

Originally Posted by whitemagician91

personally, I found it's hard to "conscious awakening" without alarm, or not open my eyes upon awakening. Guest I should practice more.

From his experience of teaching this to others Mr. Raduga says that using an alarm reduces your chance of success by 50-75%. As he says, if you have a strong intent before going to sleep and practice you will wake up without movement. The reason for this is that too much external stimuli such as the noise from an alarm alters our state of mind too drastically upon awakening. When I first started out I did use a custom made alarm with a duration of ten seconds and a voice recording saying, 'Dont move'. It worked perfectly for waking without moving but the shock was too much so I trained myself to awaken without moving.

Originally Posted by mcwillis

From his experience of teaching this to others Mr. Raduga says that using an alarm reduces your chance of success by 50-75%. As he says, if you have a strong intent before going to sleep and practice you will wake up without movement. The reason for this is that too much external stimuli such as the noise from an alarm alters our state of mind too drastically upon awakening. When I first started out I did use a custom made alarm with a duration of ten seconds and a voive recording saying, 'Dont move'. It worked perfectly for waking without moving but the shock was too much so I trained myself to wake without moving.

I can reciprocate this from my own experiences. Strong intent before sleeping was how I first trained myself to recognize nightly awakenings, and I've successfully used that for a variety of other things including waking without moving. Furthermore, I've personally never had success using any sort of alarm (for the reason mcwillis has pointed out), so I'm inclined to agree natural awakenings are the way to go.

Ok I did not have a lucid dream on my third attempt =(
But this night I just fell asleep without using affirmations just to see if I still would wake up during the night, but I didn't. The next night I am going to start using affirmations again and hopefully I wake up this time.

no, you do not physically move at all, you just "try" to move something with your mind. like you arm. FILD you have to actually move.

I have read two of Raduga's books and found them to be enlightening. In fact I continue to use some of his "indirect techniques" and find success most of the time I use them.

This DREAM VIEWS forum provides a wonderful opportunity for those who seek to gain greater understanding and insight in developing their lucid dream skills. I have always firmly believed the idiom: "search all things, hold fast to that which is good". And that's why we are here - to learn and grow to advance and progress and to develop our abilities by discovering that which is useful.

Unfortunately there are those that would spend their time splitting hairs over what they feel to be ill defined terminology. Now, perhaps we can move on and build up and contribute rather than tear down and destroy...

Originally Posted by DukeDreamWalker

Unfortunately there are those that would spend their time splitting hairs over what they feel to be ill defined terminology. Now, perhaps we can move on and build up and contribute rather than tear down and destroy...

Yeah!

Frak those guys!

Them and their destruction.

I like the techniques suggested on the book, but Mr. Raduga focuses too much on OBE, which I am not interested in, and doesn't say how to, after applying some tecnique/s succesfuly, skip OBE and directly LD instead. Can someone give me a hint???

I'll post one indirect technique as an example:

PHANTOM WIGGLING (MOVEMENT)
Testing Individual Effectiveness

Immediately after waking from sleep, remain motionless,
eyes closed. Try to wiggle a part of the body for 3 to 5 seconds,
but without using any muscles. If nothing moves during the
attempt, try a different technique. If a sensation of wiggling
occurs, even in the slightest, continue to employ the technique,
striving to increase the range of movement as much as possible.
This technique should be performed very aggressively, not
passively. As soon as the range of movement nears or exceeds
four inches - which may take just several seconds - the following
situations may arise: one momentarily finds oneself somehow in
the phase, or the wiggled part of the body begins to move freely.
The occurrence of movement during practice of this technique
allows the practitioner to transition to a separation technique and
attempt to leave the body.
While practicing phantom wiggling, strong vibrations may
occur, amid which separation may be attempted. Sounds also
often arise, allowing the opportunity to practice listening in,
which can lead to phase entrance.
The phantom wiggling technique is not meant to produce
an imagined movement by a phantom body. The point of the
technique is to attempt the movement of a physical body part
without using muscular action. That is, the focus should rest upon
an internal intention of movement without physical action. When
the sensation occurs, it differs little from its real counterpart and
is often accompanied by heaviness and resistance. Generally,
there is very little range of movement at first, but with
concentrated effort the range of movement noticeably increases.
It does not matter which part of the body is used to
exercise phantom movement. It may be the whole body or just
one finger. Neither is the speed of the movement important.
Increased range of perceived movement is the aim of the
technique.

Training

To train the technique of phantom wiggling, relax a hand
for several minutes while lying down, eyes closed. Then,
aggressively envision the following hand movements, without
moving any muscles, for two to three minutes each: rotating, updown,
left-right, extending the fingers and drawing the fingers
together, clenching and unclenching a fist. No sensations will
occur at first. Gradually, the sensation of muscular action will
become so apparent that the perceived movement will be
indistinguishable from real movement. During the first training
attempts, practitioners are often tempted to open their eyes to see
if actual movement is occurring – that’s how real the sensation
feels.

Good. Now I have this problem. As soon as I awake, I open my eyes and start moving in bed, to change positions and not get stiff. How I prevent myself from doing this? I doing unconscously. When I remember I shouldn't have moved or opened my eyes it is too late. Some idea?

Sorry for the long winded post.

Thanks!