Thread: Lucid Dreaming Fundamentals -- With Q & A

Originally Posted by Irreo

So as I understand, I was more or less on the correct path. For instance, if I go to bathroom and flush the toilet, I can stop for a moment and think about the water going down, while noticing (hearing) how new water fills the deposit due to what I just did, while at same time feeling my breathing, and thinking what are my plans for the next minutes or even the day, and trying to remember what I did moments ago, or even what I had for breakfast. Would that be correct?

Close enough. Just be sure to wonder about your interaction with your local reality as you do this.

Hello again Sageous. Athough I experiment with various things (it keep things interesting), I find the most success with the standard RRC as you teach it. Have you ever talked about how the RRC usually translates to lucidity in your own dreams? I think it would be helpful for students to hear. And thank you for sharing your decades of experience with all of us here!

Edit: I know we've talked about the 20 minutes before basically exercising our memory for LD's (and that that line of thinking in a dream could directly lead to a DILD ), but I am most interested in the (stop/wonder/effect on surroundings/effect of surroundings on us) part of the RRC and hearing examples of the translation into your LD's.

^^ I think I have mentioned the RRC's value and uses during the dream a couple of times, but I sure don't feel like searching for where I did that, so here it is afresh:

Aside from stoking memory, as you noted in your edit, doing a RRC while lucid helps me to increase overall lucidity by giving me a moment to remind myself exactly where I am (in a universe of my own making) and to appreciate the fact that my dream body is just a DC. I think RRC's a more a global tool for establishing and building your self-awareness and memory, though I have found it far more useful when already lucid than a standard RC. It also helps in stabilization and control as well, because the questions and answers of a sincere RRC during a LD help settle the misgivings or insecurities that allow dreams to fade and control to wane. But I don't think that is what you were asking...

The RRC is a self-awareness exercise, and not a technique for becoming lucid in itself. In my exuberance to push its value I might have said that if you do enough RRC's in waking life, you might do one by chance during a dream, and then find yourself lucid. That would be excellent, but it is not the RRC's purpose. The RRC is very much a waking-life activity, and not a technique for inducing DILD's.

That's what I got, but I'm not sure it was enough this time; let me know if I need to elaborate.

First off, thank you for taking your own time to help people like me get started. I can't express my gratitude enough.

I have a quick question regarding the development of self-awareness, the most complicated aspect of LDing for me.

I've been told that Vispanna meditation is great for WILDing, but then I have you saying Reverse-Reality Checks are very strong. Can you sort of give me some insight on which I should look into? It's just, the ideas of RRCs seem very tiring having to constantly do them.

EDIT: Last question, when do I know that a WILD has been successful, and I can finally transition into a dream scene?

Thank you!

Originally Posted by Buckey

I've been told that Vispanna meditation is great for WILDing, but then I have you saying Reverse-Reality Checks are very strong. Can you sort of give me some insight on which I should look into? It's just, the ideas of RRCs seem very tiring having to constantly do them.

Why not look into them both?! As a matter of fact, in addition to vipassana meditation, you might also look into samadhi yoga as well. Why? because they are all very similar, and very helpful toward developing your self-awareness/mindfulness in a LD-friendly manner. In fact, I'm pretty sure that the RRC could easily be termed a vipassana-type technique that could be adapted to samadhi yoga practice -- in the end it's all generally the same thing. I personally believe that the RRC is likely going to be the simplest, and least tiring of the three subjects, though, should you delve into them seriously. The RRC is, after all, just a simple technique, and not a full-blown mindfulness program.

I do have another suggestion for you: if you are getting fatigued doing RRC's, then don't do so many of them. Correct me if I'm wrong (it's been a while since I looked at the specific session texts), but I'm pretty sure I never said to do RRC's constantly. Just a few times a day is okay; if you can manage one every hour or two, that would be great, plenty, and probably still not tiring. More often than that is likely overkill, I think.

Also, RRC's should only take a few minutes to do, max, and I have found them to be more relaxing than tiring. Be careful that you don't spend too much time on them, as you might defeat your own purpose by making them the priority, rather than the self-awareness you are trying to gather.

Last question, when do I know that a WILD has been successful, and I can finally transition into a dream scene?

You will know that a WILD is successful when you are enjoying your LD, of course. WILD is the transition to the dream; when you have completed the WILD, you have completed the transition as well, and will be in your dream. Now, your dream scene might need a little work, depending on things like when you did your WILD, and the nature of your expectations/intentions, but you will be in a dream regardless.

So I guess the real answer here is that you need not worry about looking for signs that your WILD transition is successful. When it is, you will be in your dream lucidly, and well aware of it. Indeed, I suggest that you scratch this concern off your list (hell, doing so might just make the transition easier...).

Awesome reply!

I do have another suggestion for you: if you are getting fatigued doing RRC's, then don't do so many of them. Correct me if I'm wrong (it's been a while since I looked at the specific session texts), but I'm pretty sure I never said to do RRC's constantly. Just a few times a day is okay; if you can manage one every hour or two, that would be great, plenty, and probably still not tiring. More often than that is likely overkill, I think.

Wow, that makes me feel a lot better. I thought I would end up having to do several an hour as I did more and more.

Also, RRC's should only take a few minutes to do, max, and I have found them to be more relaxing than tiring. Be careful that you don't spend too much time on them, as you might defeat your own purpose by making them the priority, rather than the self-awareness you are trying to gather.

Can you elaborate on this? RRCs develop self-awareness, so I thought spending more time on them would be productive, not counter-productive?

My general RRC is me, let's say in this instance walking outside, focusing one at a time on things. I notice the leaves crunching beneath my feet, and spend a few seconds thinking about that. I am the cause of those leaves being crunched. Then I may spending like 15 seconds to focus on how I block the light rays from some light source, which casts a shadow.

This is how I perceived RRCs to be done.

You will know that a WILD is successful when you are enjoying your LD, of course. WILD is the transition to the dream; when you have completed the WILD, you have completed the transition as well, and will be in your dream. Now, your dream scene might need a little work, depending on things like when you did your WILD, and the nature of your expectations/intentions, but you will be in a dream regardless.

So I guess the real answer here is that you need not worry about looking for signs that your WILD transition is successful. When it is, you will be in your dream lucidly, and well aware of it. Indeed, I suggest that you scratch this concern off your list (hell, doing so might just make the transition easier...).

Aaah, that's reassuring. I didn't remember reading any part of a tutorial that elaborated on the "when you know you've succeeded" part, so I wasn't too sure.

Again, thank you.

Originally Posted by Buckey

Can you elaborate on this? RRCs develop self-awareness, so I thought spending more time on them would be productive, not counter-productive?

Sure. It's my feeling that when you do anything too often, it becomes rote repetition, a routine burned into the regular functions of your day. In other words, if you do RRC's constantly, they will eventually become just another habitual thing you do as your day passes, and no longer something special, or something that truly makes you wonder -- or interested in wondering -- about your interaction with reality. Once they become habit, once you no longer need to remember to do RRC's, you are simply doing a thing, and, rather than summoning self-awareness, that thing becomes just another waking-life activity that tends to shroud self-awareness under a thin veneer of comfortable routine.

Now, if you can maintain that sense of wonder, or are doing some real introspection that makes you aware of your Self, and its interaction with your local reality, during all of those RRC's, that would be a fine and quite impressive thing (and I would be a bit jealous; I certainly can't do that! ), but I could also see how such extreme activity would be exhausting. So even if they work every time, RRC's will still do your job if you don't do them constantly... it's better to enjoy doing a few than to suffer through doing many, I think!

My general RRC is me, let's say in this instance walking outside, focusing one at a time on things. I notice the leaves crunching beneath my feet, and spend a few seconds thinking about that. I am the cause of those leaves being crunched. Then I may spending like 15 seconds to focus on how I block the light rays from some light source, which casts a shadow.

This is how I perceived RRCs to be done.

That's good, and an excellent example, but you seem to be omitting two of the steps. Don't forget to remember where you were and what you did a short time ago, and where you will be and what you will be doing a short time from now, and be sure to think like you did with the "where am I now?" sort of answer you gave above. These two steps are very helpful for accessing memory during the dream (and, as a sort of side-effect, reconfirming for you that you are dreaming), so try not to leave them out.

Awesome, and one last question (sorry to bombard you!), what actually develops dream recall? The actual process of laying in bed and trying to remember the details, or transferring those details to some sort of medium, like a dream journal? I'd like to be able to just lay in bed and remember the details of any dreams or fragments I can remember. Usually in the mornings I won't have enough time to get my journal out and write everything down (always late to school!).

Thanks again.

^^ Try to find some time, Buckey.

There are a few ways to improve dream recall, like thinking about your dreams during the day, and practicing prospective memory (i.e., setting the intention at night to remember your dreams) but by far the most efficient dream-recall builder is keeping a handwritten dream journal. There is something about the act of writing things down by hand that converts what you are writing --and what you dreamed -- into long-term memory fairly effectively. Plus, even if you fail to remember the dreams, at least you'll have a record of them.

Staying in bed and running the dreams through your head a few times before you move, open your eyes, or start thinking about the upcoming day is a good first step, but you still should write the dreams down, with as much detail as possible, as soon as you can.

So try to find some time, it might be worth the sacrifice.

Sageous,

How important is the development of self-awareness in the WILD process? What's stopping someone from skipping that, and just laying down, following the steps, and having a successful LD?

^^ Well, given that a lucid dream is literally a dream that includes waking-life self-awareness, It is virtually impossible to have a lucid dream without self-awareness. If you have a successful LD, you have exercised some self-awareness; you might not directly practice developing your self-awareness (many LD'er's do not), but it will still be present when you have a LD, like it or not.

So, if you manage to skip self-awareness completely, and attempt a WILD (or DILD) without it, you will likely just be lying down for a nice sleep, and no LD's.

Sageous,

Once again I've been thinking about RRCs, and I'd like to know if I'm on the right track (or a track, at least).

I was on break at work, and the only person in the staff room, and I got thinking how at that moment I was manifesting the room. Not to make any solipsistic statement about the world not existing without me, but that, simply through I my being there, I was making manifest the various phenomena I was experiencing, and that only I could be experiencing it in that way, in that moment; and that others would be manifesting their own experience in a different way to me; the trees swaying outside the window were only as they appeared to me because I was there.

A productive realisation or nonsensical ramblings?

^^ Well, it is a track, at least.

Though it seems like a very useful exercise, this is not a RRC as I envision one. The RRC should help you recognize your interaction with reality, to understand that you and it have something to do with each other. To use a perspective that assumes you are creating the room (and yes, I understand you are not making solipsistic pronouncements here) tends to diminish reality's contribution to your interaction. Without elevation -- or perhaps even acknowledgment -- of that interaction, you might miss out on the wonder of your involvement in something that normally is much bigger than you, seemingly unapproachable. That wonder is important both in attaining a self-awareness mindset, and in allowing you to better realize during the dream that the "reality" you are interacting with is You. However, your exercise could come in quite handy after you understand, in a dream, that the reality with which you are interacting is you, especially from a standpoint of control.

Though at the same time very different from it, I think what you described seems much closer to the "imagine everything is a dream" exercise, which is also a fine thing to do (though I don't do it myself, because I often feel a little silly imagining everything is a dream when it obviously is not). So not a RRC, but still something quite valuable.

tldr: yes, a productive realization, sure, but one that may have a slightly different purpose than a RRC.

Sageous,

Wow! This a great thread!! I just joined the forum, I'm new to LD and found this thread. I'm on the third page but I felt compelled to jump ahead and toss you a big KUDOS!!

I came across some of your earlier thoughts on awareness and memory, and how central they are to the process. I've taken a more disciplined and rigorous approach to meditation the past 14 months and in theory it seems that should be beneficial. I think I see a lot of parallels between your concepts of self-awareness and that cultivated by mindfulness meditation. Once I have a chance to digest things I'll probably have some specific lines of inquiry.

Again, thanks for this very informative thread!

^^ Welcome to DV, and Thanks for the kind words!

Sageous,

Originally Posted by Sageous

In other words, develop your self-awareness and memory (that daytime work), keep positive thoughts of your future lucid adventures high in your mind, and you will find yourself simply having LD's without apparent effort during the dream. They might feel spontaneous or natural, but they actually are the result of your hard work and energetic contributions, whether or not you consciously acknowledge that at the time. Properly prepare your mind, and all those techniques and tricks (i.e., RC's) will seem unnecessary come dreamtime!

^^ About this (going back a long way here! ), there’s a few things I’m not really sure about when it comes to the lucid mindset/ the fundamentals:

The lucid mindset seems to take a lot of attention sometimes; I would often do a few mindful RC's, completely forget about things as I might be busy or have other things to do, and then only remember that night something like: “oh yes, I was supposed to be RC’ing throughout the day! ” and then do another mindful RC. But I can’t help but think that these RC’s, no matter how sharp or mindful, might not be so effective if you forget about lucid dreaming between them. Would this be correct? Or would that awareness you’ve "stored" throughout the day still manifest itself in a dream if you had some kind of subconscious expectations?

Is the essence of the self-aware, expectant mindset that it must exist at the forefront of your mind pretty much most of the time? Or would having a loose grip on it (for example, doing occasional RC's as well having some vague goals and expectations in mind) have some kind of effect?

Just like you’ve described in the quote, I have had dreams which I just *knew* were dreams as a result of what you say, but I’m not fully certain how strong my mindset was at the time, or what I had been effectively doing as far as daytime work was concerned. So I’m just trying to understand the mindset a bit better.

Thanks.

^^ That goes back a ways for sure, but it still seems reasonable:

Originally Posted by Eamo24

The lucid mindset seems to take a lot of attention sometimes; I would often do a few mindful RC's, completely forget about things as I might be busy or have other things to do, and then only remember that night something like: “oh yes, I was supposed to be RC’ing throughout the day! ” and then do another mindful RC. But I can’t help but think that these RC’s, no matter how sharp or mindful, might not be so effective if you forget about lucid dreaming between them. Would this be correct? Or would that awareness you’ve "stored" throughout the day still manifest itself in a dream if you had some kind of subconscious expectations?

I'll go with the second choice, and agree that "awareness you’ve 'stored' throughout the day still manifest itself in a dream if you had some kind of subconscious expectations." I am confident that any sincere day-work you do will help improve your chances to LD as well as their overall quality. And yes, if you are doing RC's with deliberation, and throwing in some self-awareness exercises as well, the mindset you acquire during these moments is indeed registering in your unconscious and memory, and the efforts are not negated by long periods of non-mindfulness between them.

I have a feeling that even the most devout lamas living in the highest caves of Tibet still allow themselves time to forget their discipline and simply pass some time, mindful of nothing at all. We are really not built to be constantly self-aware, constantly doing RC's and RRC's, constantly contemplating our next adventure in dreamland. There will always be waking-life intrusions, responsibilities, and intentional diversions (watching old movies is my favorite) that pretty much guarantee that constant self-awareness is impractical, if not unsustainable.

Is the essence of the self-aware, expectant mindset that it must exist at the forefront of your mind pretty much most of the time? Or would having a loose grip on it (for example, doing occasional RC's as well having some vague goals and expectations in mind) have some kind of effect?

Though keeping a self-aware, expectant mindset active most of the time is a good thing, unless you're pursuing some seriously advanced transcendental or sleep yoga goals, you can certainly loosen that grip a bit. If basic LD'ing is your plan, then occasional RC's and vague thoughts an expectations about Ld'ing might be enough. Keep in mind, though, that those occasional RC's must be meaningful, and your thoughts of LD'ing -- even if vague -- must happen to some extent, and real attention must be paid to them -- you only get back that which you put in.

I would also add that, if your life is too busy or complex to make self-awareness a priority, you should make the time you spend on it that much more focused, or intense. Regardless, though, if you truly desire strong self-awareness and the successful LD'ing that such a mindset can enable, any effort you make toward your goals will be recorded and noted by your unconscious. Yes, these things are proportional, and less effort or desire means less unconscious response come dreamtime, but something will register, regardless.

Here's the best part, though, and what I imagine I was referring to in that quote: If you work on your self-awareness/mindfulness with some sort of consistency, and improving it for the sake of LD'ing is truly important to you, you will find in time that self-awareness becomes much less elusive: even during the most mundane of tasks or engrossing video games, you will notice things, or remember things, that hint toward your presence in your local reality, and you will find yourself able to quickly summon your self-awareness as needed. In other words, self-awareness -- even if initially practiced in dribs and drabs -- will eventually at least be on one burner at all times, even if a back one... and that is a very good thing, especially for a lucid dreamer.

tl;dr: It is okay to do day-work like RC's and self-awareness exercises sporadically, as long as you are doing them with sincerity, and as often as you practically can. Yes, you should work as hard as you are able at this stuff, but doing it full time is pretty much impossible. And yes, if you really care about this stuff, your unconscious and memory will absorb what you are doing, making it a part of you, and fulfilling your expectations.

I hope that did not muddle things even more...

Excellent advice, all. Thanks for clarifying!

Originally Posted by Sageous

I'll go with the second choice, and agree that "awareness you’ve 'stored' throughout the day still manifest itself in a dream if you had some kind of subconscious expectations." I am confident that any sincere day-work you do will help improve your chances to LD as well as their overall quality. And yes, if you are doing RC's with deliberation, and throwing in some self-awareness exercises as well, the mindset you acquire during these moments is indeed registering in your unconscious and memory, and the efforts are not negated by long periods of non-mindfulness between them.

Glad to hear this. Yes I was thinking that this idea of the lucid mindset or nurturing the fundamentals correctly meant that the dreamer had to create a very big deal of it in their mind -- being “tuned in” all of the time IWL so that your mind would have a strong chance of carrying this into a dream. But that does make sense about your subconscious mind nurturing interesting expectations.

Originally Posted by Sageous

Here's the best part, though, and what I imagine I was referring to in that quote: If you work on your self-awareness/mindfulness with some sort of consistency, and improving it for the sake of LD'ing is truly important to you, you will find in time that self-awareness becomes much less elusive: even during the most mundane of tasks or engrossing video games, you will notice things, or remember things, that hint toward your presence in your local reality, and you will find yourself able to quickly summon your self-awareness as needed. In other words, self-awareness -- even if initially practiced in dribs and drabs -- will eventually at least be on one burner at all times, even if a back one... and that is a very good thing, especially for a lucid dreamer.

This is interesting about self-awareness, in fact, one thing I have been wondering about recently was the whole area of building self-awareness in waking life. I think I get a lot of what self-awareness is about, e.g. thinking about your actions before doing or saying things, being conscious of how you are coming across when talking to people, thinking about how you’re affecting them etc. When I think of it, I've actually been doing things like this for a long time now (perhaps years) but never really thought of it as self-awareness -- probably because I didn't know what self-awareness was! But these self-awareness activities do feel very natural, and I was thinking that if you didn’t keep up this self-awareness enough or didn’t have enough opportunity to, that a lot of that "work" might become lost. So even in dribs and drabs it will still “exist” on some level? Good to know!

Just one more thing: so I guess that by making RC’s part of your everyday life as well, you would develop the same type of mindset, where it might eventually exist on a back burner, even when you’re not actively doing them? I haven’t really practiced RC’s for long enough for them to become second nature -- except for one particular dream sign but I tend not to focus on dream signs anymore as they’re just not needed in most cases.

Thanks again.

Originally Posted by Eamo24

Just one more thing: so I guess that by making RC’s part of your everyday life as well, you would develop the same type of mindset, where it might eventually exist on a back burner, even when you’re not actively doing them?

That was indeed the original intention for RC's, yes. But keep in mind that RC's are simple state tests, confirmations that you are not or are dreaming; they are not everything you need to develop a strong self-aware/memory-rich/high expectation mindset. So yes, among the other day-work you should be doing, if RC's are built firmly into your waking-life mindset, you theoretically might bring that "I should do a RC" mindset into a NLD with you. However:

Perhaps paradoxically, the practice of building the LD'ing/self-awareness-rich mindset creates a situation where, by the time the habit to do an RC emerges in your dream, you are likely already going to know (or at least suspect) that you are dreaming anyway, and the RC will only become redundant confirmation of what you already know.

So, for most people, practicing RC's rarely result in actually using one to become lucid -- but practicing them in waking-life is an important component of building a mindset that didn't need them in the first place. To me that is kind of cool, and I think again ties right in to that quote you listed above. On a side note, this could explain why RC's have evolved from that original simple state test that LaBerge et al originally devised to a more complicated process of imagining a dream world, etc.

Sageous, I have a question to ask.

First... is self awareness the same thing as mindfulness?
If not which kinds of meditations would you recommend specifically to build self awareness? I have some experience with meditation and attribute that to my few successes with lucid dreaming.

^^ I think for my purposes Self-awareness and mindfulness are pretty much interchangeable, though some might disagree. About the only difference (again, for me) is that self-awareness elevates your own presence and participation in your local reality in a more prominent way than traditional mindfulness might.

I'm no expert in meditation, but I've found that vipassana meditation and Samadhi yoga line up pretty well with what I'm discussing here.

Sageous, about your response in the PM -- yes that does make sense, about the mindset (using RC’s to prepare your mind and what confirming your state does for your mindset), but I guess what I was really getting at was the route of using RC’s in response to triggers or dream signs, as a means of attaining lucidity:

The trouble is that it might be difficult for someone to RC to their trigger or DS at times (for example, when talking to people or in conversations). I see that they can be done subtly as well, but I guess what I'm wondering is if it would be possible for someone to just “become aware” at these times instead of doing a physical RC -- as it is after all, the awareness you put into RC’s that makes you lucid -- and not the check itself (Although the check might be useful come dreamtime ).

It may be a bit different, but I’m just wondering if it would work.

Originally Posted by Tsunami1

Sageous, I have a question to ask.

First... is self awareness the same thing as mindfulness?

In it's purest and most right form, mindfulness meditation cultivates no-self.

Originally Posted by Tsunami1

If not which kinds of meditations would you recommend specifically to build self awareness? I have some experience with meditation and attribute that to my few successes with lucid dreaming.

Take the example of Mindfulness of Breathing (anapanasati). There is no separation between the meditator and the breath. They are one in the same. There is only oneness. Each is integral to and inextricably bound with the other.

If I understand how Sageous describes his approach to self-awareness practice for LDing, it is the same. It's not only being aware of experience, but also being aware of how connected we are to experience and experience to us. They are inseparable. At least from a subjective perspective we can't have one without the other.

Eamo:

First, I've included the text of our exchange below, in case any curious lurkers want to get the details (I'm assuming that is okay with you, Eamo; let me know if it wasn't. Now:

The trouble is that it might be difficult for someone to RC to their trigger or DS at times (for example, when talking to people or in conversations). I see that they can be done subtly as well, but I guess what I'm wondering is if it would be possible for someone to just “become aware” at these times instead of doing a physical RC -- as it is after all, the awareness you put into RC’s that makes you lucid -- and not the check itself (Although the check might be useful come dreamtime).

I guess the simple answer to this is that you do not have to do a RC every time you get a dreamsign in waking life. If you don't want to feel like an idiot by suddenly, say, poking your palm or searching for a clock in the company of folks who won't get it, then don't do it. RC's are important, but missing one now and then is not a big deal. Now for complexity:

Unless you've become a total creature of habit and do RC's without thinking about them (which is bad), or use an alarm of some sort to remind you to do RC's (which is not part of your question), yes, doing a RC is actually a product of your awareness, of remembering for whatever reason that you are supposed to do one (in waking-life or in dreams). So you would indeed possess a bit of self-awareness at the time of doing a RC, and that is good. But the purpose of the RC, I believe, isn't to create lucidity, but to confirm it. Yes, you can become aware that maybe you are dreaming when you see a dreamsign, but that bit of awareness might not be enough.

Without the physical reinforcement of a RC, that awareness will probably fade quickly, especially if you are in the midst of waking-life distractions. Or, worse, without a physical digression to doing a RC, when you see a dreamsign you will quickly learn to say to yourself, "Oh look, there's my dreamsign! But I know I'm in waking-life right now, so this is not a dream," followed by a return to whatever it was you were doing, dreamsign and the possibility of being in a dream forgotten. And, sure enough, this same thing will happen when you get that dreamsign in a NLD, without a hint of lucidity. Adding a RC to that moment of awareness sustains the moment, and confirms not only your state but your interest in that state. I think that is their real value, especially in the beginning of your lucid journey.

All that said, remember that your RC can involve little more than eye-movement or perhaps a quiet flex of your fingers in your pocket as the, say, squeeze an object you keep there for just this occasion. There is no specific requirement in what you have to do, as long as what it does tests and confirms your state accurately and meaningfully.

tl;dr: If your RC is going to embarrass you, then don't do it at times when embarrassment can happen. Yes, you tend to be elevating your awareness before you RC, but they are still an excellent tool for sustaining and qualifying this awareness. And, again, there are RC's that can be done without others noticing.



Here's the background PM's:

S: First, full disclosure: I have never become lucid from doing a RC during a NLD, and I have almost never used dreamsigns. But that's just me:

E:Thinking about it, dream signs can often be an excellent tool for lucidity, and I assume could be used to heighten the lucid mindset or even act as a good way to create it.

The things is, there are lots of triggers someone could RC to become lucid in a dream, but sometimes an RC isn’t always a possibility -- like looking at hands, checking time, pinching nose etc. especially in public (a concern I think shared by many dreamers ). But given that it’s the self-awareness which you put into the RC that makes you lucid and not the “check” part of the RC, is there really any need to do the physical check IWL when you’re absolutely certain it’s not a dream? Isn’t there any way you could just become more aware, or do you think the actual check is what’s necessary to carry this self-awareness?

I’m not really looking for a way to mentally RC, as I know that probably doesn’t exist -- or else they’re not very effective. And you also said that the RRC is not an effective induction tool in a dream (I know that’s not its purpose anyway) which just leaves me to wonder how you would create this RC self-awareness without the physical, well...RC.

S: Yeah, I've found it kind of amusing the things people do -- or think they must do -- to RC. Your waking life RC can be as simple as looking at your watch, and then looking again, or even picking an insignificant object on the periphery of your vision, looking at it once, looking away, two things that can be done quite subtly. In my case, I wear glasses in waking-life, but never in dreams, so I just touch my glasses to confirm they are still there.

And no, mental RC's are not a good idea, because they allow you to be both lazy and to separate the exercise from the reality you are supposed to be checking. Neither of those things seem very productive.

This is a very good question:

E:But given that it’s the self-awareness which you put into the RC that makes you lucid and not the “check” part of the RC, is there really any need to do the physical check IWL when you’re absolutely certain it’s not a dream? Isn’t there any way you could just become more aware, or do you think the actual check is what’s necessary to carry this self-awareness?

S: But given that it’s the self-awareness which you put into the RC that makes you lucid and not the “check” part of the RC, is there really any need to do the physical check IWL when you’re absolutely certain it’s not a dream? Isn’t there any way you could just become more aware, or do you think the actual check is what’s necessary to carry this self-awareness?
RC's, for me, really are a tool for waking-life mental calisthenics and something that I think is almost always used after you realize in a dream that you are dreaming, meaning self-awareness/lucidity is already present. So I do think RC's are a thing to be done primarily in waking-life, and are only a handy confidence builder during the dream.

Why is there a need to do RC's? Because they give you a moment to step away from the distractions of waking life and remember that you want to be lucid. They are very useful in getting your head in the right place for your daywork, I think. That might be vague, but suffice it to say that RC's are doing more than just confirming your state; or, rather, confirming your state does more for your LD'ing mindset than just telling you if you are dreaming.