Thread: What happened? Post Your WILD Attempts, Good or Bad, Here

Well its me again and this one is funny i also have some questions but first, when i got up after 5 hours i decided to do the SSILD mini cycles around 6-7 times 3 seconds on each sense and did MILD or a should i say i lot of auto suggestion to the point of near insomnia or an insomnia kind state this time i didn't count myself to sleep i just decided to wait it out see what happens well it passed around 40 minutes i wasn't laying still or anything i did move from time to time but not a lot then the noise and the vibrations came and decided to separate which didn't work or so i taught got disappointed and rolled over to my back before i was laying on my stomach but here's where it gets weird and funny when i rolled over it felt like someone else was controlling my body or i think i didn't feel my bed like i was levitating a bit i suspected that so what happened next a taught came that i was still in sleep paralysis and it was normal for my subconscious to control my body lol also at that point i did have self awareness and a little bit of memory but i think my IQ was low at that point when i rolled over to my back i saw the ceiling but not really it was a dream felling disappointed i decided to go to sleep when i closed my eyes i was in a non lucid dream and it ended around 1-2 minutes

are WILDs unstable should i perform stabilization techniques ? because it didn't lasted long or was it just a coincidence ? maybe i was at the end of my REM cycle

can i DEILD when the REM cycle is over i did this couple a days ago waited 10 minutes and felt REM atonia for 10 minutes should i wait more will something happen ?

^^ [Before I start, Kir4ee, I have a request: Please, please, please use punctuation and capitalization in your posts. It is extremely difficult to decipher posts like this as presented, and I really don't want to misunderstand you. I know it's easier to just hurl all the words out as they come to you, but there really is a reason that we've all been using grammar for the last few centuries, and that reason is so that we can communicate as easily as possible. I hope, in the future, you'll do what you can.] Anyway...

From what I could gather from your account, it seems that you may have been paying way to much attention to the noise. When it "got weird and funny," as you noted, it was probably time to say to yourself something like, "Hey, the HI (aka, the noise) is getting pretty weird/intense, so the dream must be right around the corner."

I'm not sure what you meant by deciding to separate, but I'll assume it was similar to metaphorically rolling out of your body and into the dream; that separation may have failed because you were too focused on the stuff going on around you than you were on beginning your dream. So next time, I suggest that you be patient, and let all the noise happen, including imagining that someone was controlling your body (no one was, of course; you were likely just feeling your body preparing for sleep, and that can get weird, especially if you give it too much attention).

Here are a couple of specific thoughts:

Originally Posted by kir4ee

... a taught came that i was still in sleep paralysis and it was normal for my subconscious to control my body lol

Your subconscious really doesn't control your body when you are asleep; your body is essentially shut off when you're sleeping, so any sensations of movement or of someone else controlling you are likely more centered in your imagination than in reality... I don't say this to be harsh or negative, but rather to remind you that everything you experience in your WILD is coming from You, in one way or another, and is never the doing of some force outside your ultimate control.

More important, though: If you have to think or wonder if you are in SP, then be assured that you are not. Trust me when I say that if you are truly in SP, you will know it.

... also at that point i did have self awareness and a little bit of memory but i think my IQ was low at that point when i rolled over to my back i saw the ceiling but not really it was a dream felling disappointed i decided to go to sleep when i closed my eyes i was in a non lucid dream and it ended around 1-2 minutes

This might run contrary to what they tell you on these forums, but your IQ really doesn't change in dreams. The machinery of you consciousness is working just fine, and your intelligence is as high as ever, throughout the dreaming process. What is missing isn't IQ, but memory: if you lack a reference point from which to confirm, say, that the ceiling you were looking at is wrong, it isn't that you're any stupider, just that you cannot remember that what you're seeing isn't right.

So, in the end, you might have thought you were in possession of high self-awareness and had access to memory, but your connection to waking-life consciousness might have been a bit weaker than you thought.

are WILDs unstable should i perform stabilization techniques ?

WILD's are inherently unstable, I think, if only because we are not supposed to stay awake while we are going to sleep. This stability is the main reason why we do all these techniques to manage a WILD transition. After you have begun your LD, though (meaning the WILD transition is actually complete, and behind you), stability is up to you; so yes, perform those stabilization techniques.

can i DEILD when the REM cycle is over i did this couple a days ago waited 10 minutes and felt REM atonia for 10 minutes should i wait more will something happen ?

I personally believe that REM is defined by dreaming, and that dreaming is not dependent on REM. In other words, a successful DEILD will certainly bring about more REM, because You have determined that you want to dream some more. In even more other words: REM is a reflection of dreaming, not its controller.

So yes: I highly recommend that you wait longer, because something, something like a LD, likely will happen.

Hey, I need some tips on transitioning :p

What happened to me last night is I accidentally almost did WILD without even trying to xD (this gives me hopes that I will succeed at wilding pretty soon).
I woke up at around 2. I wrote down my dream, went to the bathroom and tried to sleep again, but for some reason I wasn't tired. I decided i'd stay still as long as I needed in order to fall asleep, and I decided I'll also repeat my mantra in the hopes of getting a MILD. I started feeling my hands getting numb and started seeing hypnagogic images. This was similar to what I felt some time ago when trying to FILD, so i decided to keep going. A hallucination of my heartbeat getting faster and faster started and I was really tense and trying to relax myself. Normally I would be scared at this point, but because the EXACT same thing happened when I attempted FILD, I managed to stay a bit calmer. At this point I felt my eyes trying to open. Some seconds later I realised they where twitching. I knew this was probably REM and thought i was getting close to dreaming. The thing is, with my eyes moving like that, how am I supposed to visualise a dream? Anyway, my eyes where moving too much in surprise and I ended waking up

^^ It sounds to me like you don't need any tips at all!

Except of course my usual suggestion that you stop paying so much attention to the noise, and maybe that WILD's work much better when you plan for them, so next time things might go much better because you attempted your WILD after planning to do so, with specific timing in mind.

Here's another thing to think about, too: REM does not occur until after you are dreaming. You experience Rapid Eye Movement due to your eyes' following the "action" of your dream, so by definition you won't be in REM until after you've fallen asleep and begun dreaming. Given that, I would say your moving eyes probably had nothing to do with REM, and was likely just a bit more distracting noise. I would suggest you let them twitch and try to continue falling asleep without being too distracted; I have a feeling that, if you calmly allow them to move without concern from you, they will hold steady pretty quickly... in fact, I think if you focused on something like visualizing your dream, you likely will forget about those frisky eyes pretty quickly.

I had a very bad insomnia when i first went to bed it took me two and a half hours to fall asleep then i woke up after four and a half hours and then bam!! the insomnia was back then it took me one and a half hour too fall asleep during that time i had the vibrations of the WILD transition but they ware weak

The second time they ware stronger but i didn't had a direct transition but instead i ended up in a false awakening in which i was sleeping in the hall lol and i had full self awareness and memory so it was easy to be lucid right away.

So i tested some stuff first was looking at my origami models they looked like in real life with every detail! i looked at my hands the fingers ware messed up, but the thing that surprised me was before i had the lucid dream i said to myself if i had lucid dream i would fly and look around the environment so wen i went outside i flew subconsciously without trying it was amazing.

So something to point out ever since i had my first WILD if i have an insomnia episode after 4 hours of sleep most of the time it results in a lucid dream this also happens if i screw up a technique and end up having insomnia i don't know why this happens and why it didn't happen before but maybe i have activated regions of the brain that ware never active just a theory.

I hope you enjoy reading this i just have one question do you have WILDs when you have an insomnia episode ?

^^ Thanks for sharing, Kir4ee; interesting stuff!

In all honesty, when I have a bout of insomnia I just get up and do something else, because I know there is no hope of getting to sleep.

With that said, I should mention that it very often tends to take me an hour or two to fall asleep when doing a WILD after WBTB, so I really don't consider the sort of delay you note to be insomnia -- just an annoyance.

For what it's worth, though, I've had some of my most amazing LD's after taking 1-2 hours to get back to sleep... so you might be on to something after all!

I've had a successfull WTBT i think , I tried with wild, but i lost lucidity before transition.

Success! today i had my worst and best lucid dream lol also i like to state i didn't use any technique at all so for the past two weeks i have been having insomnia episodes and in some nights i would wake up up to 3-4 times and having a lot of semi lucid dreams by what i mean as a semi lucid it could be a failed RC or suspecting something that's not right but don't do anything, also my dream recall i much better since i wake up a lot

So today i woke up after 5 hours of sleep and couldn't fall a sleep because of anxiety but i some how said to my self if have a lucid dream today i will do this and this some dream goals so to take my mind of things my only thoughts ware about lucid dreaming and fell asleep.

My first lucid dream was a lucid nightmare adn a DILD at first the lucid dream was not stable it was like i was drunk so i wanted to experiment something looking at a mirror so when i got to a mirror the reflection i saw was terrifying i saw a female like form the movie Orphan i dont know if you have seen it but as i saw that i was paralyzed and couldn't move and made eye contact after a few seconds i turned around and flew subconsciously so fast in the sky until i lost all my senses and disappeared in to nothingness so when i woke up i was terrified.

My second one was a WILD i caught a micro awakening and tried to separate and it worked this was the most stable WILD by far had memory and had a lot of fun it was very vivid i learned a new super power shooting electricity from my hand at first it didn't work because i taut it would work like visualization but i added sensations of the WILD vibrations on my right hand and it worked at first i had sparks but then i could shoot electricity which was fun i also did the rewind time power which it worked and tried some other stuff like super speed or super jump but they didn't work all in all the LD felt like it lasted 30 min and was very stable and i had a blast ^_^

Also important note the second lucid dream had a room filled with mirrors and my reflection was like normal like in real life i didn't focus too much on them of the fear of my last lucid but i passed by them a couple of times and it was fine

^^ Great work, kir4ee!

Your post was an excellent example of how things will work in your favor when your head is in the right place; thanks for sharing!

This happened a couple nights ago but it still intrigues me, so I figured I'd post it and see how I can improve.

I woke up at 3:45am and thought it would be the perfect time for a WILD. I got out of bed and prepared myself. For about 5-10 minutes I sat up in bed and then at 4:00am I began. The first part of my attempt was the 61 Point relaxation technique. I managed to get through this completely focused and moved on to my mantra which I used as a distraction from the sensations I felt throughout the attempt. Eventually I began to see scenes; these weren't like a dream, however, they seemed as if I deliberately tried to visualize them, but I didn't. I calmly reminded myself that they are all a creation of my mind and even exerted some degree of control over them to prove it to myself. These passed multiple times and then a feeling as if I was about to enter a dream came. I calmed myself and waited for it come, and I thought I may have seen the slightest increase in brightness when I recalled it in the morning. The dream never came. Throughout the attempt I was always able to hear external sounds such as my fan or the birds beginning to chirp. One particularly loud bird disturbed me and I opened my eyes and went to close my window. I looked at the clock and was surprised when I saw the time. One hour and twenty minutes had passed! I was shocked that I lay there without moving for so long and remained aware. I felt as if I was asleep through the experience, but a dream never came.

A little disappointed I rolled into my normal position and reminded myself of my intention to lucid dream (this was nothing major, just saying that I want to lucid dream once). I fell asleep and one of the most vivid dreams I've ever had followed. I'm still unsure if I was lucid but I thought about lucid dreaming in it and looked at a window sill for anything odd such as angles not at 90 degrees, but I didn't find anything strange there although it was an odd dream. This probably isn't the right area to write out my dream, so I'll end it here. Nevertheless it was a very interesting night but I'm unsure why a dream never came.

^^ That was an interesting (and fairly well done) attempt, Astrok, thanks for sharing!

It seems to me that everything went well, except that you returned to sleep, properly aware, during NREM, when dreaming is not readily available. The stuff you witnessed were likely dreamlets and/or hypnagogic imagery, BTW. And yes, it seems that you may have finally fallen asleep without awareness after a dream wouldn't form, which explains all that passed time.

For next time, I can think of only two things for you to consider doing:

First, when doing a WBTB, don't just sit up for a few minutes, actually get up, and move around for at least 15 minutes (with a maximum of 90 minutes). The reason for this is two-fold: first, it helps to wake you up sufficiently to help you better maintain awareness throughout your WILD dive, and second, it allows you to pass the time of your sleep cycle that would have been allotted to NREM, which improves your chances of catching REM and a dream when you go back to sleep... I think the latter point there is the one that applies to you. So try to make that WBTB a little longer next time -- also, be sure not to wake up too much: avoid computers, phones, or TV, and try to keep your thoughts on your dreams.

Second, should you encounter a period where you are seeing HI or dreamlets, and are pretty sure you may be asleep, be patient and try to wait for your next REM period, because it -- and your dream -- will come eventually. You might even be able to speed up its arrival a bit by doing a little visualizing or perhaps remembering your dream goals.

Good luck with your next dive!

Well its nice knowing I was quite successful in doing everything even though I didn't have an actual lucid dream. I like that suggestion for WBTB and I'll be sure to try it. When you said "it allows you to pass the time of your sleep cycle that would have been allotted to NREM" does that mean the longer I stay awake and active during WBTB, the less time I will spend in NREM during my attempt? If so, that's interesting and I'll have to experiment with longer WBTBs. Also, do you think the WILD attempt set up the vivid dream I had afterward in some way?

Thanks for the confidence boost!

Originally Posted by Astrok

When you said "it allows you to pass the time of your sleep cycle that would have been allotted to NREM" does that mean the longer I stay awake and active during WBTB, the less time I will spend in NREM during my attempt?

Pretty much.

The major purpose of WBTB is to allow you time tp gather your waking-life self-awareness without fully exiting your night's given sleep cycle. In a sense, you're using WBTB to wakefully kill time while your next REM period rotates into position. And, since REM periods are very close together after 5 or 6 hours of sleep, a WBTB of just 15 minutes or so after that much sleep might be enough to have you join your next REM period when you go to sleep.

Also, do you think the WILD attempt set up the vivid dream I had afterward in some way?

Sure.

Your focus and interest in having a great dream would certainly inspire your dreaming mind to offer up an excellent NLD... think of it as a happy side-effect of WILD!

I want to get back to trying to master DEILD.

I attempted one last night by imagining a visual of the ocean upon noticing an awakening, but I felt too awake and felt like I had no chance of entering a dream.

I wonder if imagining senses other than visual would work just as well in a DEILD. For example, rather than imagining a visual of an ocean until it appears, I could imagine the sound of ocean waves until an dream scene of the ocean appears. I think imagining senses other than visual would require less effort and help me stay asleep.

Originally Posted by dolphin

I wonder if imagining senses other than visual would work just as well in a DEILD. For example, rather than imagining a visual of an ocean until it appears, I could imagine the sound of ocean waves until an dream scene of the ocean appears. I think imagining senses other than visual would require less effort and help me stay asleep.

That's all good, and worth trying, but you might consider just doing DEILD's as they were originally meant to be done: simply stay focused on the dream from which you are exiting, and go right back to it, pretty much before you even fully awaken. Then, after your DEILD is complete and you've returned to the dream you recently left behind, you can go about changing the dream with visualization, be it intellectual or sensual.

To me, the "perfect" DEILD is one that happens before you even know it occured. If you start adding stuff, like visualization, you're also adding "wakeful" conscious activities that could lead to your simply waking up. I highly recommend that you simply return to your dream, and then go about visualizations that will bring you to a new dream. In other words, let the DEILD happen first, and save activities meant to add new imagery for after your new LD begins.

I hope that made sense, and doesn't conflict too much with what I've said before!

I don't know what to focus on from the previous dream. I feel like I spend more time trying to figure what to imagine rather than really imagining anything.

I had some success last night, though. I think it might have been a DEILD that happened before I knew it occurred. All I know is I was in bed in a semi-conscious state trying to imagine some stuff from my previous dream and next thing I know, a phone was flashing and beeping next to me which let me know I was dreaming.

However, after a different LD, I saw some HI upon waking up but I couldn't turn it into a dream. I think it was because I was more focused on the HI than the intent of turning it into a dream. Perhaps this intent is more important than what exactly I am imagining.

Originally Posted by dolphin

I don't know what to focus on from the previous dream. I feel like I spend more time trying to figure what to imagine rather than really imagining anything.

Okay, how about we forget the word "focus" for a second? Focus is certainly important, but if, during the very brief window of a potential DEILD, you're scrambling for something to focus on, you're very likely going to intellectually sail right by that window and either wake up or go back to sleep "normally."

Instead, consider using your DEILD moment to remember. Rather than finding something new on which to focus, in either direction, just remember your last dream, and hold that memory as your only thought in your mind throughout the DEILD; keep yourself involved in your last dream as you feel yourself waking up. By doing this you are letting your dreaming mind do the focusing, sort of committing it to continuing your LD when you go back to sleep. So, your dream remains front and center throughout the dive, which is exactly what you want, in the end... and it maintains that priority status without much thought from you, which during DEILD is very important.

Also, almost as an aside: I don't recommend even looking for HI during a DEILD, much less focusing on it. Since you are already so close to your dream during a DEILD, there really is no reason to add other things to the equation. If you want to form a new dream, perhaps use the imagery of the old dream as a foundation, rather than looking for something new (and, again, use that imagery after you've returned to sleep and your dream).

I had some success last night, though. I think it might have been a DEILD that happened before I knew it occurred. All I know is I was in bed in a semi-conscious state trying to imagine some stuff from my previous dream and next thing I know, a phone was flashing and beeping next to me which let me know I was dreaming. However, after a different LD, I saw some HI upon waking up but I couldn't turn it into a dream. I think it was because I was more focused on the HI than the intent of turning it into a dream.

See? When done right, you barely notice a DEILD happening at all!

It's sort of like, say, a tennis player making an amazing service return: she might be making complex calculations and precise controlled movements, but she has no idea what she's doing until well after the return was made.... DEILD's happen that fast, and their complexity (which is there) can be considered later, but doing so during the transition will only foul it up -- just as a tennis player who thinks about her shot during it is doomed to blow it.

...Perhaps this intent is more important than what exactly I am imagining.

Yup.


tl;dr: Don't spend time doing anything during a DEILD; just hang onto your last dream and be prepared to return to it.

I think I get it! So, DEILDing back into a dream is just like recovering from a blackout during a dream? Just hang on to the intent to keep the dream going while dreaming mind catches up? I have done this a few times, so I think I am familiar with how to do it. Thanks, Sageous!

^^ That's pretty much it!

I had a similar experience to the other attempt I shared but I made a few changes, and I have an idea for improvement that I wanted to get your opinion on.

I woke up naturally at dawn and did a 20-25 minute WBTB. Once I returned, I did the 61 point relaxation technique and, this time, put more effort (doesn't seem like the right word here) into falling asleep. Because of this, I seemed to lose awareness for a short amount of time, but I was once again aware when I heard myself lightly snoring. I repeated my mantra and waited; this time I did not plan on moving until a dream came. My legs and arms were stiff and holding still has never been a problem because of this. I do remember my mind seemed a bit more active than it probably should have been, but I'm unsure if these are the quick thoughts that accompany you when you begin to fall asleep (or when already asleep). Eventually I saw a strange light that looked like a cone in which the light originated at the top and faded as it moved downward. I tried not to focus on it but I ended up looking at it. It came back once again and I did the same. I thought the dream was near because of those, so I tried to visualize a scene, and later, feel myself floating in space. None of it worked and the dream didn't come once again. This time when I looked at my clock, a little under two hours had passed.

I went to my normal sleeping position and tried to sleep. The sleep, and a dream, came after I was awoken numerous times by hypnagogic sounds or sensations.

Since the dream always seems to come in that position, I thought maybe rolling into it after a half hour or whenever I feel is a good time and continuing my WILD attempt might work better. I guess my biggest question, though, is where is the dream and is it my actions (or lack thereof) preventing it or something else?

I had a couple of LDs, one of them a caught FA, but I don't think I had any DEILDs.

I notice if I wake up but stay still, keep my eyes closed and not think about much, I will fall asleep and start dreaming again fairly quickly no matter how awake I feel when I initially wake up. This must be what the dive is. I just have to maintain self awareness and keep my dream as my only thought during the dive.

Originally Posted by Astrok

Since the dream always seems to come in that position, I thought maybe rolling into it after a half hour or whenever I feel is a good time and continuing my WILD attempt might work better. I guess my biggest question, though, is where is the dream and is it my actions (or lack thereof) preventing it or something else?

That is a very curious problem!

The last thing you want to do, though, is think that it is something you're doing that is keeping your dream away. This is because doing so will create an expectation that a dream isn't coming...and, with that expectation in place, it surely won't.

Instead, I suggest that you dig deeply into your patience reserves, and simply wait for the dream to arrive, because it really must do so, eventually. You might pass that quiet time while waiting by either visualizing a dream scene, or perhaps remembering your current dream goals -- just do something that both occupies your time and encourages a dream to form. You also might remind yourself that there's nothing wrong with being aware during NREM... it can even be most relaxing!

tl;dr: don't ever concern yourself with questions like "where is the dream?" or asking yourself if its absence is your fault, because such thoughts might encourage your dream to stay away. Instead, hold onto your patience; your dream will come.

Regarding changing your sleep position: It's been found that succumbing to the rollover urge is not a good idea. For some reason. rolling over during a WILD attempt into a new position -- even if it is a position you are confident will be helpful -- tends to lead to sleep without lucidity; in a sense, by making yourself more comfortable, you are abandoning your conscious control of the situation and allowing your body to settle into the position best suited for sleep.

To clarify that thought, it's important to remember why we do WILD's on our backs: it turns out that falling asleep on our backs is the least likely position for falling asleep "properly." So, in a sense, the unnaturalness of falling asleep on our backs is what helps us to stay awake and aware more easily throughout a WILD... it is the discomfort that promotes focus and keeps us awake just enough longer to bring us closer to the WILD transition, fully aware.

That said, I personally have been able to WILD from any position... but it is very important to maintain that position throughout your WILD dive, from beginning to end. So, if you have a position you think you will want to shift to sometime during your WILD, then start your WILD dive in that position. It is the action of changing your position, of "rolling over," that can cause a loss of self-awareness, so it is better to start in that position than to roll over into it during your WILD dive.

So: If you have a favorite sleep position, start your WILD in that position; don't shift to it halfway through the WILD attempt.

It really does make sense that the dream must come eventually. I'll put my patience to the test and really try to expect the dream to come because it has to.

I've actually been experimenting at night when I first go to sleep with maintaining awareness and testing out things I wouldn't do during a WILD dive. For example, last night I waited for my body to gain that stiffness I always get during my dive that helps me not move, and I tried swallowing and opening my eyes (which led to a sudden and bright flash of red one time). What I discovered is that it has no effect on my body. I was able to easily slip back into that light sleep (or maybe I never exited it). I've used this to try to not let little things that may happen (such as twitches or swallowing) not bother me, although I mostly remain completely motionless.

It also makes sense that you would do WILD in an unnatural position now that you explain it since the entire process is unnatural. I'll stick with my back since it seems I can easily maintain that position for long periods of time.

I had a DEILD this morning. About a minute into the dive, I felt an urge to change position but I resisted it. A couple of seconds later, I felt some vibrations and a false awakening started which I caught.

I feel like I'm getting better at DEILDing, but I am still struggling with reentering the dream I woke up from.

I think I'm lacking the expectation and intention I need to reenter my last dream. I reread WILD Session 4: Mental Prep Part 2.

For increasing expectation, it says

pocket a thread of expectation with you on your WILD trip.

I haven't been doing this. I think the reason I haven't been expecting to enter my last dream is because it is something I am not used to doing. However, I have entered the dream of my choice during a WILD a few times, so I know I can do it. I've just got to try to pocket that thread of expectation.

For increasing intention, it says

I recommend setting your intention the old fashioned way: by resolving to recognize your dream, by visualizing yourself dreaming, and by imagining yourself playing out your dream,.

That sounds familiar! From this, I gather I that the purpose of imagining the dream I want to enter during the dive is to maintain the intention of entering it and to nurture some schemas for the dream to form around.

Alternatively, it says

if you’re in the habit of changing out mantras every time, or you do not normally use mantras at all, then perhaps building your intention into a mantra is okay.

Mantras appeal to me more than visualization. I reread WILD Session 5: Mantras and Why They Matter. I think "Return" would be a good mantra to maintain my intention of returning to my last dream. I think it would be easy to repeat, easy to remember, and it is meaningful to me as long as I remember what I returning to. If I remember what I am returning to, I could also nurture the schemas needed to reform the dream.

When I repeat my mantra, I can expect the dream to return after one of the times I repeat it. My mantra can be like a command that I expect my dreaming mind to follow.

EDIT:Mantra didn't work at all last night. I think I'm over thinking it again. I'll just focus on trying to DEILD back into my last dream throughout the DEILD.