Developing My Art Skills

Hey guys,

I have never really been too much of an artist in my life and recently something just sparked inside of me and i just have this urge to draw, now below is a manga drawing i basically copied, i used a grid to help me get a more realistic shape, it isn't finished, the body is rubbish, the hand looks diseased and personally the breast line is just ridiculous. Basically i am new to art in a way, i want to be able to draw some cool stuff and i was wondering if anyone could give me any pointers or better yet help me improve my drawing. Yes i know it is a bad scan, the scanner is rubbish unfortunately.

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x...nimethingy.jpg

Btw just to let you know, this is like the first drawing i've done in ages, plus it is a copied one and i still cocked it up, please help me out by leaving comments and suggestions on how i can improve my artistic skills :)

Thanks alot!

Look more carefully at the picture, see where everything goes and how it goes. Copying other pictures is a good technique for building up to drawing your own pictures well. I find that drawing rough shapes of where everything is and making sure it's all in perspective and in the right place helps. Then when you fill in the detail it's all in proportion. If you start drawing detail with no idea of where it's going you end up with a mess.

To be honest, I'd erase the chest and right arm (her right), the neck's in the wrong place and you need to correct that. The left shoulder and arm look good however as does the right hand.

You're right about the boob line.

Thanks goldney, okay so do you think that a good way for me to develop my basic skills would be to draw out the basic points of a face say of this anime type of style, give the picture all the right and needed characteristics before adding detail. Do you think that if i just work on this it will help me add the detail? I know things come with practice but this would take a while right?

If you're going to use a grid, you should use a much smaller grid. The purpose of using a grid is to break the full picture down into smaller portions that are easier to transfer(for lack of a better word). With her head and body only taking up two squares, you're kinda defeating the purpose of using the grid.

Also, when you are copying pics, you have to do a lot of visual measuring. In the reference pic, take note of exactly how far above her left eye the left goggle lens is. Take note of exactly how far above her right eye the right goggle lens is. Imagine there is a grid running across the reference picture. Would the right eye be sitting on the same line as the left eye, or would it be higher? Is the length of her nose 1/9th the width of her eye, or 1/3rd?

These measurements have to be meticulous. You need to make sure that all of the dimensions of the picture you are copying from are perfectly (or as closely as possible) scaled on your drawing.

[Edit: And yes, it is good to get your positioning in before adding detail. Just do very light lines as a sort of idea of where all of the features are going to be. Then, work in the detail as you get further along.

Position first, then fill in with detail.]

What Oneironaut said. At least, that's how I do it. It's not a travesty to use a ruler, either. If it helps, go for it. I personally just measure dimensions and draw from the centerline out when I copy knife pictures, but I use 1/4" graph paper, and I'm almost always drawing a full-scale version from a down-sized photo. It sounds harder than it is; I acquire the dimensions beforehand, and just have to very carefully, either with a ruler, or by eye as I improve, get the proportions right.

Copying is a good way to learn to draw the proper proportions without having to freehand. It's helped me a lot in my design sketches.

Hey guys, i took advice and i copied a few pictures, but then i downloaded a few anime pictures that gave me an insight into the distinctive features such as the eyes and nose and mouth etc, i managed to come up with the below, the arms are a bit long but its all my original work, no copying, just ideas from the pictures i saw, it is also not complete yet either. Pointers, comments and advice would be good :)

Oh and it looks purple because the scan i did was very very faint, i don't know how to change that but the picture on paper looks fine but when i scanned it it came out really faint so i had to screw around with the levels.

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x.../Animegirl.jpg

Okay, i would still like comments for the one above but i have started on a new one and its looking alot better since i seem to be giving it more detail as i go so that it looks how i want it, my main problem with the one above is the fact that it is very two dimentional and flat, with this one i am attempting to make it look a bit more three dimentional however i may need some pointers on where and how to make it look a bit more three dimentional so if you could maybe offer some pointers on the picture above because i may try making that one a bit more 3D before i do it to the one i am making now since the one i'm making now has taken ages, i don't want to cock it up.

I really appreciate any help as always :)

Well, one thing that I've learned through practice is that arms are very easy to tell when proportionate [to the experienced] and very easy to mess up when gaining that experience. Arms are, I think always, from shoulders to 2/3 down upper leg [or is it thigh?] with I think the forearm shorter than the rest of the arm [not good with the proper terms].

It helps that when you want more 3D looks but don't know where to start, use references. Part of a '3D look' is in how fluid you can make the line art look, that means a variety of tapering and contour lines must be used. But then again, that's just an observation off of a certain style I've seen so it may be different for other styles.

You're improving, I can tell you that, when learning anatomy, improvement comes quickly, then the rest is all practice and development of personal style... But hey, your work is inspiring me to draw more ^.^ Keep it up!

I helped him improve :D

Thanks for the tips Lucidbulbs :boogie:

Yeah, slayer, thanks for the tips on MSN, i decided with the picture i am currently working on that i am going to do a baggy raincoat, i have already started it like that so i doubt i'll need to do a breat line, but the problem i'm having with this one is that i maybe laid some of the lines on a bit too think, i am only using a standard HB pencil so today i'm going to buy a basic set of pencils to help me out.

Another problem i had was that when i first drew it it was more 2D but then i added the neck but now i am trying to make it look asthough she is turning her neck and looking at you but the problem is that the head seems a bit too far on one side, if i change the position of her eyes so she is looking at another angle it may work but i feel i pressed to hard on her eyes so it may be a bit too late to change now. I'll post a picture today when i am near completion. Thanks!

When drawing people, you can use your own body as a sort of ruler. You can measure the relative distances and lengths of body parts. For example, the elbow lines up with the waist, the length from the palm to the tip of the middle finger is roughly that of the chin to the brow, etc.. Basically, if something looks off, it probably is. Double check by verifying this way to see it what you've drawn makes sense.

Thanks alot Mark :)

I always had problems with the elbows, i always had to draw them by eye but now knowing that the roughly come out where the waste is i could definately improve on my picture, thanks alot, really appreciate it! :boogie: I hope this picture turns out better than the previous one.

I'd say you're off to a good start. If you're able to identify problems, you'll know what you need to fix. As long as you continue to identify and eliminate problems, you'll continue to improve.

Okay, this is the one i am working on at the moment, i need some help with it and without actually posting it i didn't think i could get specific help with certain areas, now i managed to do some nice crease lines in her raincoat at the top however i am finding it impossible to make more creases in the coat, the area where the hand is has been done so many times it has gotten darker so its difficult to get a lighter looking hand, once i get a set of pencils today i am sure i will be able to get some lighter shades where needed, as always the scanned picture differs because i had to tweak the settings to make it visible so parts may look darker/lighter than they actually are.

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x...r/scan0004.jpg

A really common but useful technique for the beginner artist is to take the picture you are trying to draw and turn it upside down when you try to copy it. When most people first start drawing, they find it hard to get past their preconceptions about how something should look, and so they can't draw how it actually looks. The purpose of turning it upside down is to put the picture in an unfamiliar view and thus help you to draw only what you actually see.

Really?!? I remember doing that in middle school! It's to help you see it as lines and stuff right? Yeah, our teacher gave us classical favorites to regurgitate on paper upside down, then the next day was blind drawing to improve hand movement control and precision, you drew an image while only staring at the image rather than paper or hand. That's actually an ingenious tip Xaqaria!

The position of the shoulders give off a slouched look, I can't really put into words how to fix it [but I do know how, right now I'm making a bunch of hand gestures and my niece is looking at me weird]. The arms need to be longer, but good work, you're taking the advice of your DV members to heart ^.^

Oh, as for lead darkness, I find working with mechanical pencils to do wonders, it's so much easier to make finer lines and lighter sketches [though, unlike my friends, I've only discovered that this year, they all gave me a no duh face when I told them, tsk tsk]

I used to LOVE drawing! Used to do it all the time as a kid, man I want to draw something now!!! *Gets out pens and starts to scribble*

Wow! Thanks for all the replies :)

Xaqaria - That sounds like a pretty awesome idea, since the one i am working on at the moment is my best i think i will get a picture off the internet and draw up something upside down like you said, it could work wonders on making me see how things come together eventually, thanks for the tip! :)

Lucidbulbs - I am looking at the shoulders now and i'm definately seeing your point, they do look rather slouched, maybe i could put a hood there for her raincoat to plump it up a bit more, i'll see how it works out, i am waiting now since my mum has gone out, hopefully she will be able to find a cheap set of different types of pencils, darker, lighter etc. That way i can make the detail a bit better. But i agree, the shoulders need to be a bit more sort of.... i can't find the words but i know what you mean! :D As for the pencils, i will wait and see if i have been bought any pencils and if not i will maybe tamper with my pencils to see what i can get out of them! Thanks for the advice, this drawing is really getting me addicted :boogie:

Adam - You big kid :D *Gives Adam a smiley face sticker* :)

I can see an improvement from the 1st to the last pic there LS. When you draw, do you work on the outline then fill the gaps or do you just work from top to bottom?

When I am drawing (now this is just a quick sketch for illustration purposes) I like to get the outline and proportions right. Particularily for people, I like to get the outline of the face and hair and even clothes right, once it looks in proportion move on:

Exhibit a)
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x...Ash/manga1.jpg

Then when I have the outline sorted out I will move onto more details, getting the outline of the more important features like the eyes and mouth etc, adding more detail to the outline as I go along:

exhibit b)
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x...Ash/manga2.jpg

Then when I am happy with this I will just go about completing the rest of the details. Normally I wouldn't use a pen, and I wouldn't rush so wouldn't have the harsh lines here, but if you can use pencil that way if you make a mistake its easier to correct:

exhibit c)
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x...Ash/manga3.jpg



But if it is something you enjoy doing then you know the saying practice makes perfect, it does really work - keep going at it mate, and work on proportions and making sure everything fits as it should do and the picture should look fine, there is nothing more wrong about a picture that is all out of proportion, unless that is the effect you are going for?

Either way, enjoy it :D
Adam.

Cute style Adam, now both of you have me wanting to finish my art on my comp [I love my tablet], and it's true, when i first started drawing seriously, my anatomy was so off, but now, I can at least draw anatomically correct, though I still have issues positioning arms in a way that makes a natural, stiff free, look.

Wow, that picture really kills mine lol :D

Bah, but the advice is killer awesome! :D:D:D Thanks alot mate, when i start off with my pictures i always start with the eyes and work outwards, its strange but i always find them the centre point of all my pictures so i start with them and work out, i add detail as i go along but i only add detail when i am happy with the outline and structure of what i have just done. It is improving as i put in more detail, i'm working on it now, hopefully i will have something close to finished by tonight, its really enjoyable though, keeps me away from the computer screen which is good since i sometimes spend too long on my laptop :( It really gets me creative though and i really appreciate the help Adam, i will try that technique, nice drawing also, considering you went over that fast it looks pretty darn good! :)

Lucidbulbs - Draw Draw Draw!!! Go ahead and lets see your art, i envy you, i wish i could have tablet, but i don't, i just have a pencil and some paper :( But now you mention it i am curious to see some of your work :) Give into temptation!!!

Lol, I have old works from a long time ago [when I was a dorky kid who wa sinto dorky things] that I could post but yeah, I had to earn that tablet like i do everything else, it came out of like a years' worth of saved up money. But it's definitely worth every penny spent.

post some pictures then :D

O.O But it's embarrassing, and I'm a perfectionist *pouts* you people! You trapped me in a corner, now I must di my own grave [ might post them some time this week, such old, childish work]

Hey Lucid Seeker.

I'm in pretty much the same position as you. I have a bit of an inspiration to draw, and I quite like manga, so just drew... this website is very useful for tutorials on manga drawing, and in the forums there are practically unlimited sketches to copy in the sketches sub-forum:
Mangarevolution.com

Here are two pictures that are useful for getting proportions right on the human body:
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/b...natomyMale.jpg
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/b...Malesketch.jpg

Thanks alot Toaster :) I really appreciate the link, i'm checking it out now, the link that i clicked did not work but copying the webaddress worked. The site is great, its got some great tutorials. Wow! :) I really appreciate that Toaster, theres tons of stuff to work from, i aim to be able to draw high quality manga/anime characters so they look real and stunning. It would be awesome and i'm sure with practice and with some of the tutorials on this site i will be able to get these results! Thanks alot :)

Just letting you guys know that this thread isn't dead, i haven't given up. I can only really focus on my drawing at weekends. I got and idea of what i want to do this week, its for someone, he knows who he is and it will reflect tonight strongly :wink: You will see the picture as it progresses, i'll post some scans tomorrow :D

Okay, the below is a work in progress and i need a few pointers, first off i got some new pencils and a nice pad, the scanning was alot easier and came out better quality. Here are my problems below.

- The eye on the left doesn't seem right
- Looking down at the picture makes her head look fine but when i hold the picture upright like in the scan below you can see that the head looks a bit long.
- I can't get the breast line to work out, i keep getting it wrong

This picture is in beginning stages so i will not add any specific detail until i have the full body drawn out.

Those are my problems for now, i'd appreciate any pointers and help :)

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x...ker/Scan_3.jpg

Sorry to post again but i just wanted to show you the updated version since last, i need some pointers on how to improve, the breast line is the worst and hardest part to do. Just need to get my perspectives right, any help is appreciated!

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x...r/scan0009.jpg

Did you check on Lord Toaster's site he gave you? Search for breast tutorials and you'll hit one master of a tutorial, it even helped me with the curse of drawing flat boobs ^.^ Finally, my only issue left is not making men to feminine looking.

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/5...icfixedxu7.png

I gave her a clevage, I changed her mouth, looking more hot than cute, shrinked her head a bit, turned it a bit, and lowered it a bit, I made her left eye (from our viewpoint) bigger and made her right arm (from our viewpoint) smaller.
The current boob job is not that well, and I myself should probably work more on boob drawing.

Here is the updated version, still a work in progress, help is always appreciated.

I've updated the breast line, lets see what you think, thanks for the tips, i did check Toasters site given. Its great, i've been going over many sites getting inspiration and ideas. Hows this...

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x...r/scan0010.jpg

I say it's better, but the only way you'll get the 'perfect' breasts drawn is with lots of pain staking practice... I'm trying to endure that now along with hand/foot work [feet are easier than hands though], I think it'll be worth it, since that is the only sure fire way to improvement, though tutorials are a life saver.

Okay, heres an update on the picture, i managed to get the breast line right i think, opinions are welcome to help me improve. The legs were a nightmare to draw and they still look a bit off, tips would be great also, but i'm leaving them just for now, the hands are my biggest problem at the moment, but i've fixed the shading on the skirt and its looking a bit better than it used to. Any pointers?

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x...r/scan0011.jpg

You could replace her hand with one of those puffy things >.>

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/7...ixedpngpp6.png

So, once again I changed her hair, changed her mouth, gave her a more appearant clevage, bigger boobs, smaller shoulders, smaller arm/legs and drew a cheer puff thing.
You've done a pretty good job yourself so far, the skirt and legs are looking good, though I suggest you work more on faces. I'm not that good on hands myself, and the only way to get a good hand, is to just keep drawing it over and over again. I once filled an entire A4 paper with hands, just to find a good one. Painfull practice is the way :)

Thanks so much Marvo, i really appreciate that, just looking at the way you have done the breasts has given me an idea on how to make the final improvment to this picture. I agree the face does need improvement, especially her right eye, if you had the sketch in front of you it just doesn't seem right. So i'll sort that, unfortunately i won't be able to give much time to drawing until next weekend, i'll just practice drawing hands and general figures until the weekend, that way i'll be prepared to continue :) Thanks alot though Marvo, i truly do appreciate it, i will do some further practice like you said.

Wow...your getting good fast!

I really like how it's turning out. Except the boobs still don't look right...who knew they could be so hard to draw?

Seeker try rather than drawing the breat line, shading the shape should give them a more natural look..

I have to go to work now but will draw something similar when I get home to give you an example

It's true, that shading the boobs in is possible too, if they're small enough. I find that much harder though. I just make them bigger, so that a breastline is possible :P

Indeed, thanks alot Adam, if you could still do a drawing/example to show me that would be awesome, i could definately use some advice, i think i know what you mean but demonstrations work better, the breast line i agree still needs improving and i think that it is one of the main problems i've had.

I'll await your post Adam, thanks alot mate :)

And thanks for everyone else's advice, really appreciate the help, i'm loving art now! :D

Okay, its another weekend and i'm continuing with last weeks drawing, its a pity Adam didn't post a help picture since it would have been useful, meh, no matter.

Well this weekend i'm going to finish off the legs and hands, then i'm going to try adding some detail, hopefully i will have it completed after the weekend. I'll post some updates today :) I'm starting now.