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Keep your responses simple, please.
- One belief
- One race
- One goal
- One language: written/spoken
- Universal time
- Universal heath
- Monetary value of life, and all thereof is zero
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http://i44.tinypic.com/1ifswi.png
Keep your responses simple, please.
- One belief
- One race
- One goal
- One language: written/spoken
- Universal time
- Universal heath
- Monetary value of life, and all thereof is zero
Universal time? How is that supposed to work? Time is relative! Relative to whatever timeframe you pick...
It's 11:27 AM here, also there.Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdCrisis
Are you trolling me? This is just complete nonsense! If you are serious about it then get some intelligence!Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhavoc
/me thinks you are suggesting genocide.
What's wrong with diversity?
Gravity influences time thus an earth minute can be more than a thousand years in the gravity well of a neutron star -> I (on earth) could live through years,have children,build a house,eat a mahagony dining table and you (over there) still wouldnt have finished your drink.
So the term universal doesn't even work here! Also if you suggest global than 1 AM means sunset in Tokyo and 1 AM means early morning in Berlin. The 12/24 hour day was invented to keep track of how much daylight is left...Your system would complete ruin that!
Not at all, why would you think this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Evolventity
It's not efficient enough to sustain humanity.Quote:
What's wrong with diversity?
Are you suggesting the sun dictates when we eat, what we do and why we do it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cold Crisis
Alaska
Seems to me that you worship the Sun, Cold Crisis. Can you tell me why I'd think this about you?
Indeed i am suggesting that!Some body funtions are controlled by light that falls into your eyes and indirectly also reactions inside your skin.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhavoc
For example Vitamine D is generated during sun exposure. I don't think you are going to have a good life without it.So i suggest humans should be out during day.
We live during the day and sleep during night. Its quite obvious why... (In case you question this -> i don't think its easy to see in the dark)
I don't worship the sun and i have no idea why you would think that...
A universal goal doesn't mean we all have to work/sleep at the same time, though. Why would you think a universal time would be any different? Are you suggesting that because a clock says it's 12:41 PM on this side of the globe and is light outside, that 12:42 PM and dark on the other side of the globe means we all adhere to the same schedule? If we did away with PM/AM, would you still have a problem with a universal time, then?Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdCrisis
As do I.Quote:
i suggest humans should be out during day.
That's not what I'm questing, though.Quote:
We live during the day and sleep during night. Its quite obvious why... (In case you question this -> i don't think its easy to see in the dark)
Then would you like me to tell you why I think this, again?Quote:
I don't worship the sun and i have no idea why you would think that...
I think it's a one way to achieve that. I don't know why that's the first thing that came to my mind. Maybe I'm demented? Welp.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhavoc
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instanc...x/14710956.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by greenhavoc
Sounds good to me.
Can you think of another way, one that's not so demented?Quote:
Originally Posted by Evolventity
Diversity can only take our species so far before our genetic code becomes too mutated. It works fine in smaller populations, but my concerns aren't confined to an individual level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evolventity
I understand that without these mutations our species couldn't exist as it does now, but I also believe that as vital as the mutations are to our evolution, they are redundant if never given an opportunity to fully develop.
A. Universal is a big word,it means "all across the universe" which does not work...you should use the word globalQuote:
Originally Posted by greenhavoc
B. In my normal life i dont even use AM PM -> 24 hour day
C. It would confuse the entire world because 09:45 isnt morning anymore everywhere,its then also afternoon and midnight and so on
Yes!Quote:
Then would you like me to tell you why I think this, again?
I assumed that was given.Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdCrisis
Then what time do you use, Military?Quote:
B. In my normal life i dont even use AM PM -> 24 hour day
So the problem isn't with universal time itself, it's with how its presented.Quote:
C. It would confuse the entire world because 09:45 isnt morning anymore everywhere,its then also afternoon and midnight and so on
How about 13 o'clock untill 24 'o'clock and then start over at one as usual?
Or if 13 o'clock sounds too funny, then what would you suggest?
Your internal clock is set by the schedual of our sun, that's how.Quote:
Yes!
Well 99% of the people here in germany use the 24 hour formatQuote:
Originally Posted by greenhavoc
My favourite shows usually start at 15 o'clock and some at 20...
Every opening time,every tv programm,every schedule,even roadsigns are in this format here
Just because you americans can't get over the fact that something outside the US exists (Sorry but honestly,as if the 24 hour format is such a novelty)
Also its not military,even my 10 year old niece says that
Sounds efficient. So if the world used this time keeping, it would be universal.
Universal time solved. Which one you want to iron out next?
:cackle: Good one.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhavoc
As long as it's a belief system that can limit, refine and diversify itself, I have no problems with this.Quote:
One belief
I think that in the long run, this is the only way to get rid of racism. I think it's a good idea. Again so long as it contains a lot of diversity.Quote:
One race
Now you're getting silly. A unified belief system would already be selecting a cohesive group of goals to achieve.Quote:
One goal
I could go either way. I feel that there should definitely be a standard language and that everybody should grow up knowing it. I think that some people would be sad to lose so many living languages but oh well.Quote:
One language: written/spoken
You won't be able to eliminate the technical languages though. Unless you want to get rid of technical pursuits.
Sounds silly. What harm does it do to have to convert between timezones?Quote:
Universal time
Sounds good. Any ideas?Quote:
Universal heath
Not sure that I understand what you're saying here.Quote:
Monetary value of life, and all thereof is zero[/list]
Interesting stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhavoc
One race? What would that one race be, and what would be done with the other races?
One belief? Ha ha, good luck with that. Try getting any two people to agree on everything. Also, do you mean one belief concerning each issue, or just one belief at all? Which area of opinion would that concern?
One goal? Doesn't achieving a goal usually involve achieving goals on the way? Also, what area would the goal concern? If the one goal is peace among nations, what happens to curing cancer and raising one's children? (for example)
One language? Which language? How do we prevent it from evolving in more than one direction? Do we ban the other languages?
Universal time? How will people communicate when they need to be at work or when a concert starts? Does the policy include days, months, and years?
Universal health? As in government insurance? That involves a long list of pros and cons. How do we get every nation on Earth to have it?
Money is worth nothing? Survival becomes about hunting and farming?
Those things wouldn't "work" because none of those factors can be reliably dictated or controlled (as horrific historical efforts to do so have demonstrated), and they're not likely to homogenize on their own. We could maybe declare it 10:00 everywhere, but that would probably be less useful than knowing that 10:00AM in any timezone is mid-morning.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhavoc
I get that you're not making any great effort to be coherent, but come on. What is "too mutated?" It's all mutated. If we didn't speciate when it took months to cross an ocean, we're not going to now that we can get around the globe in half a day. And genetic diversity within a species is an asset; it makes epidemics, climate shifts, and other big changes survivable. Cultural diversity likewise increases the odds that someone within a population will have the tools to overcome any challenge (or heighten any experience).Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhavoc
All those have done is show that nobody smart enough or with the necessary good will to do it has tried. There's no result of the form "this cannot be done". It seems that most of the people that have even made an attempt at that sort of thing were power hungry, blood thirsty dictators so I hardly think that we have a representative sample.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taosaur
It seems as if English is becoming the standard world wide language. So that is at least homogenizing on it's own.
Realistically speaking, how could we achieve one race without genocide? Most people are not interested in interracial mating. People of a race tend to be most attracted to people of their race, so humanity itself will never become its own melting pot that melts all of the races together completely. How could we achieve one belief (about each issue?) or goal (in each area?) without fascism? If the topic of imaginary number realism, the level of altruism involved in U.S. foreign policy, or the three best bands of all time comes up, is there any way to get the whole world to agree with you or me? We can't even agree with each other. Force is the only way, and even then it would just be what people say and not what they really think.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned
Let's test this out. Let's try to get everbody in this thread to take precisely the same position on the original post. If we can't even do that, the world project is hopeless.
This is tricky. However we cannot say that it can not be done, we can only say that we don't see how to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Universal Mind
For the first one we can use whatever force is necessary to prevent people from lying to kids. The same goes for creationists. As for U.S. foreign policy, somebody that was in a position to do these things would already be stepping beyond the boundaries of countries and would probably have already dissolved them all anyways.Quote:
How could we achieve one belief (about each issue?) or goal (in each area?) without fascism? If the topic of imaginary number realism, the level of altruism involved in U.S. foreign policy, or the three best bands of all time comes up, is there any way to get the whole world to agree with you or me?
I think that a diversity of musical tastes makes the world a better place and see no reason to enforce that on people.
Again, you're confusing "we don't know how to do this" with "this can't be done".Quote:
Let's test this out. Let's try to get everbody in this thread to take precisely the same position on the original post. If we can't even do that, the world project is hopeless.
Like the existence of God, I consider it an outlandish concept. I am never 100% convinced of anything. However, my belief is that outlandish concepts that are without convincing evidence are false. Belief is not the same as 100% knowledge.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned
:chuckle: Well, the law makers of the world police state(s) will have to all agree on the matter (eventually at least), specifically with your side, and that would involve getting law makers to understand such an issue. Then there will have to be 100% success with the police state tactics.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned
Yeah, I think that's what it would take just to get people to lie about what they think. Getting everybody to honestly agree is a many times bigger challenge.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned
But you agree that it can't be done?Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned
The exercise would highlight the variables that make such a goal impossible. It can't be done because people don't know how to do it. Again, that is my belief. There is an insignificant chance that an alien unicorn could come to Earth and shoot magic beams that make us all agree with each other, etc., but it is an outlandish concept. So, my belief is that such agreement is impossible. Perhaps the creation story is true and an alien magic beam made it appear illogical to us, but the probability is insignificant. Hence my belief.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned
It doesn't exist yet. All other races would become this new one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Universal Mind
Where spiritual enlightenment and atheism come together in perfect harmony. Do you think this is possible?Quote:
One belief? Ha ha, good luck with that. Try getting any two people to agree on everything. Also, do you mean one belief concerning each issue, or just one belief at all? Which area of opinion would that concern?
One race is one nation. How would you feel about space exploration as our unified goal?Quote:
One goal? Doesn't achieving a goal usually involve achieving goals on the way? Also, what area would the goal concern? If the one goal is peace among nations
Nothing happens to it, why would you even think this?Quote:
what happens to curing cancer and raising one's children?
The language doesn't exist yet because the race doesn't either. There wouldn't be any languages to ban, because they would no longer exist having been replaced by this new language.Quote:
One language? Which language? How do we prevent it from evolving in more than one direction? Do we ban the other languages?
I'll see you at the concert at this time. How is that confusing?Quote:
Universal time? How will people communicate when they need to be at work or when a concert starts? Does the policy include days, months, and years?
With only one race I'd imagine it would be quite easy.Quote:
Universal health? As in government insurance? That involves a long list of pros and cons. How do we get every nation on Earth to have it?
That's what it is now, why would removing the monetary system sudenly change things?Quote:
Money is worth nothing? Survival becomes about hunting and farming?
Having a shared language is not the same thing as having only one language. I'll take the rest of your post ironically, because sanity.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned
Are you saying that it couldn't be done?Quote:
Originally Posted by Taosaur
If we had one belief then the world would be incredibly dull.Quote:
One belief
If you mean treating everyone equally, regardless of race, then I agree with that.Quote:
One race
Again, if everyone had the same goal life would be boring. Seeking out one's personal goal could define the one's self and allow them to become more at peace with themselves, making them a better part of society. It is impossible to make everyone want to accomplish the same thing. And that is good.Quote:
One goal
One language leads to one culture. Language and culture go hand in hand. One culture would suck.Quote:
One language: written/spoken
??? I believe time does not truly exist, but I don't know what you mean thereQuote:
Universal time
Again, I don't know what that meansQuote:
Universal heath
Quote:
Monetary value of life, and all thereof is zero
Dave, it's easy to envision these things if you would just step back and detach yourself from the way things are, and have always been. I don't have the answers, but I'm more than willing to listen to anyone that does, or at least has enough genuine curiosity to help me think of ways to answer these questions.
I may only be half sane, however it does seem that having a shared language would make other languages into something like vestigial limbs unless one of them become truly critical to at least one particular (sub)-culture.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taosaur
So that could well lay the foundation for one language. Even if there are other languages that are spoken for fun then I don't see how that prevents cohesion to nearly the same degree as not having a common language does.
@Greenhavoc. How do you think that having one race would make everything else easier? How is it easier to go from many countries to one country (no countries) when there is one race as opposed to many? I don't see it.
Maybe we can't say a single world culture with one language, one world view and no racial differentiation is impossible, but we can assess whether it's likely and whether it would provide any return on the investment and sacrifice necessary to achieve it. To me, it sounds like a losing game.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned
We may achieve a heterogeneity so evenly distributed that it resembles homogeneity. Any two people meeting in such a world are less likely to be concerned with hereditary differences and more likely to have enough language in common to communicate, but does it require that they have no ethnic difference, and no other languages?
I don't think mankind's destiny is Earth. I think before we can explore the heavens, we need unity among our race (Human). I think people have a hard time understanding this one race idea because their train of thought is centered on what Earth has to offer, whereas someone like me thinks in terms of what the Universe has to offer.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned
I see all of humanity as a puzzle, where each religion, culture, ethnicity, etc are individual pieces of this puzzle. Once it has been put together, it then becomes a piece of the Universal puzzle. I just don't see how we can start this journey if we're still living in our own individual worlds, and I certainly don't believe it's in our best interest once we've made first contact to come across as those 'hillbillies' from the Milky Way.
There's a reason our alien meme looks the way it does, and that's because deep in our psyche we all know one race is superior to what we are now.
how about one gender????? (i was just kidding about that one, i would fine that too awkward.)
i don't think there would be a problem with a global education system, one race, one language (traveling would be easier), or universal health. but i disagree with one goal. everyone has different interest therefore will have different goals. one person might be interested in sports, while another in being a doctor. i don't see the point in having universal time as well. i'm also unsure about the idea of having one belief but it might work. overall, i seriously doubt this will take place. at least not while i'm still alive.
Somewhere in my fantasies I would like to create this kind of world with global unification with no discrimination towards anyone who exist on the globe.
Where we established a new resource based economy where money no longer rules the resources, but science does. As suggested in The Venus Project.
Where everyone gets enough, and only the skillful and knowledgeable get more for the benefit of the whole globe and for personal motivation.
Where power is in skill and knowledge and not in money. Where we strive for efficiency and self improvement. Where we get more powerful by learning and gaining experience rather than lying and playing trade games.
Where even a construction worker or a miner would be able to make good living and thus have motivation to work because gain is largely valued on the effort of work.
Where we advance in technology and spirituality without conflicts between the two.
Where many other good things take place which we can all just think about.
In our world current world this kind of world called UTOPIA.
We have no idea how to get there. There are just too many forces that would keep you away from reaching this new world. Governments, Traders, Religions, Ignorance...
There might only be a chance of a new world when the old world is destroyed or evolved.
The first option is faster but might backfire if enough remnants of the old world survive we would have no progress towards a new world but rather struggle to survive in the old one.
The second option takes too much time to happen we would sooner destroy our old world than evolve enough globally to create a new world.
The only way I see is the mix between the 2 options; When humanity struggles to survive and our differences no longer matter. When we unite to face a global problem. When old world ways prove to be worthless. When enough enlightened people rise to take the opportunity to create the world they dreamed about...
Sometimes I want to take over the world...
And the I become sad...
So many things to destroy...
For nothing!
We are not evolved enough mentally on our globe for a new world.
Not yet...
But we can see the progress. As information technologies evolve and people have access to more knowledge they slowly evolve. Though the old world forces have a strong grip on humanity (Religion, Governments, Money, Ignorance) Opposing forces slowly rise (Atheism, Democracy, Inflation, Education)
Some people just need information technology slapped in their face...
I tried to make a new world in Fallout: New Vegas going the independent route and it failed I was very disappointed.
I watched the Anime Code Geas and the new world philosophy there really touched me emotionally.
I don't see how that level of heterogeneity would be stable. If there were still enough racial tension to prevent interracial breeding then It seems that there would also be enough to prefer racially segregated living. On the other hand, with well mixed heterogeneity and no racial tensions, I would expect to see the human species coalesce down to one race of its own accord. It may take a few centuries to happen completely however I think that it would be inevitable. There would be genetic diversity within this one race and that's a good thing. However I think that it would be a distinctly new and distinctly universal race.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taosaur
Similar things happen with dogs where if you take all the different breeds and let them intermingle, they revert to an average that looks about like this:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_dkk0sjUJGz...00/Takenga.jpg
There is all sorts of variation though. Many have shorter hair or a lighter color. But they're all about the same.
I think that we're going to have to start solving the puzzle as individual humans, nations and races figuring out how to work together. I agree that the ultimate end product will probably be one race but I think that the best way to get that is to work on all presently existing races getting along.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhavoc
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhavoc
The fundamental reason: Because of geography and varying weather systems. Think about that. ^_^ ....Though that is more applicable to why it hasn't happened.
Plus, I can't help but think it'd play out like the film 'Equilibrium', where personal expression and individuality was prohibited.
You're assuming that this would have to be something that some subset of humans imposed on the rest rather than something that happens naturally. The more I think about it, it would happen naturally if all the things that we pretty universally agree need to be done actually got done. I'm thinking of improved education and getting past racism mostly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfwood
I do think that. I don't think every human wants the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned
The only thing we can all agree on is peace and happiness.....but what then at what cost? And what is peace to you compared to another, and happiness to you compared to another? Again, improved education - everyone agrees. But what will improve education? Everyone doesn't agree on that 'what'.
And a subset of humans imposing on another subset is what happens naturally, unless you wish to selectively kill those humans that do that?
As soon as everyone is generally the same, insofar as conflict in all forms has dissolved, then there is no creativity, no innovation, no progress - conflict is conducive to the aforementioned.
Don't get me wrong, I wish the world was peaceful and happy; devoid of war and conflict....but so long as we all have our own disparate ideas, war and conflict is an inevitable consequence. The best we can manage is the mitigation of war and conflict.
I know one way: TV and alcohol.
Doesn't have to be.Quote:
As soon as everyone is generally the same, insofar as conflict in all forms has dissolved, then there is no creativity, no innovation, no progress - conflict is conducive to the aforementioned.