Tell me about Simple Living

[MrDoom]

Tell me about simplifying one's lifestyle and living more deliberately and sustainably.

[kichu]

Dont eat factory farmed animals. Dont go to Starbucks everyday.

[Taosaur]

Live in a yurt.

[dweezil]

for sustainable living to work, some basic concepts should be understood, for example... money and time are the same thing. how? well, if you sell your time for a wage, then you are siphoning off time that you could use to improve your lifestyle in other ways. eg: jim works a 50 hour week in order to have money to pay his mortgage, drive a car, buy food, pay bills and have fun. these are the "normal" things that people "want". however, these are the things that cause people most stress in life. worrying about where the money comes from to pay for expenses and hating their job/feeling burned out. if he works 50 hours a week to pay a mortgage, how much time does he spend at home, besides sleeping hours? why pay so much for something you don't use so much? instead of getting big mortgages, driving big cars (especially in cities where bikes make more sense), having numerous telephones (cell, landline), credit cards, eating out etc....if you minimalise your life, stress levels reduce too. unfortunately some people need distractions in life, and paid work for many people is a distraction. instead of thinking of how to work for yourself ie: build your own home, work your garden (to feed yourself), keep animals, chop fire wood, build community with neighbours etc...people work jobs to have false comforts. getting work for money and work for yourself in balance is a good start towards sustainability. while doing this, we can gauge what our needs vs desires are and how we can live somewhere in between. when we look at these things we are forced to deal with emotional issues, like haves and have nots (maybe as a child you didn't "have" much), personal responsibility (being aware of your impact on your surroundings), interactions with others (asking other people for help and being available to help others) and dealing with your own shit (both metaphorically and literally if you plan to use a compost toilet)....so for many people it's avoided. i guess that simple living is not so simple. but it is satisfactory. if your interested in this stuff "permaculture" is the philosophy of sustainability and a good topic to start reading up on. if you want to know more from me just ask!

[Taosaur]

What I really like about making my lifestyle more sustainable is how these sort of miniature ecologies naturally fall into sync with each other in your household and your social and economic networks. The essence of simply living for me is just paying attention to what's coming into your household and what's going out, with an eye toward minimizing expenditures (of time, money and energy) and streamlining your activities until a rhythm emerges by which much of your life seems to take care of itself (is self-sustaining) in a joyful fashion. Don't come at it with a sense of guilt and anxiety, but with a creative energy and attitude of discovery, like you would devote to any promising hobby.

[kichu]

Um...wow. Yeah. Very well put.

[MrDoom]

for sustainable living to work, some basic concepts should be understood, for example... money and time are the same thing. how? well, if you sell your time for a wage, then you are siphoning off time that you could use to improve your lifestyle in other ways. eg: jim works a 50 hour week in order to have money to pay his mortgage, drive a car, buy food, pay bills and have fun. these are the "normal" things that people "want". however, these are the things that cause people most stress in life. worrying about where the money comes from to pay for expenses and hating their job/feeling burned out. if he works 50 hours a week to pay a mortgage, how much time does he spend at home, besides sleeping hours? why pay so much for something you don't use so much? instead of getting big mortgages, driving big cars (especially in cities where bikes make more sense), having numerous telephones (cell, landline), credit cards, eating out etc....if you minimalise your life, stress levels reduce too. That's something that has occurred to me. I can't help but wonder if all this 'convenience' food, etc. is in fact a net loss in terms of time/money. unfortunately some people need distractions in life, and paid work for many people is a distraction. instead of thinking of how to work for yourself ie: build your own home, work your garden (to feed yourself), keep animals, chop fire wood, build community with neighbours etc...people work jobs to have false comforts. All the worse when children and the dummyvision are involved. My parents are complete zombies, and it makes it really hard to relate to them; my dad's on the couch from the moment he gets home from work until he leaves the next day (the damn thing's on even when he sleeps). When I go to see my mother she seems geniunely concerned with me when I don't turn the dummyvision on. i guess that simple living is not so simple. but it is satisfactory. I took a look around and realized that much of our culture is empty and hollow. We seem to substitute empty distraction for geniune happiness; at the very least I'm dissatisfied, and the society I live in (the U$) doesn't offer any solution in the mainstream. if your interested in this stuff "permaculture" is the philosophy of sustainability and a good topic to start reading up on. if you want to know more from me just ask! I spend a lot of time reading (almost as much as others spend in front of the idiot tube); what books should I check out from the library? EDIT: Websites, too. I've looked at a few, but for being about buying less and combatting incursions of advertising into our lives, they sure do put up a lot of ads for books (not that books in themselves are bad), trinkets, and bumper stickers. :\ What I really like about making my lifestyle more sustainable is how these sort of miniature ecologies naturally fall into sync with each other in your household and your social and economic networks. When I get ecologies in my household, it's usually a sign to do a little cleaning.

[Misbijoux]

Yeah, what everyone above has mentioned. For me, simple living is living only on needs, such as food. The only things we really need in life are food, love and books...

[dweezil]

ok...so "convenience" food is a myth. it's so much more enjoyable to cook and eat and if people have time to do this it's not inconvenient to prepare food and enjoy it. in relation to television...i don't watch it. i like movies though. people watch tv and live vicariously through the characters they see on the screen. they also allow the tv to dictate their boundaries and "safety". so many people are afraid of violence, burgalary, drugs etc...so afraid that they never get to know their neighbours or community. that's a real shame. if you know the people around you there's no need to be mistrustful. i don't really lock my house, car or bike (unless i'm in the city). but if you work a job, come home tired and don't have the energy for interaction with other people, the tv is a good way to ignore what's going on around you... there are loads of communities and schools in the US that live sustainably. the farm in tennessee (i think) is one example. there are many in northern california, ashville north carolina, vermont and maine...that i know of. there's a great book that my friend has that was put out by a collective in ashville...i will find out the name for you. these places take volunteers i'm sure. so you could spend some time at some of these places and learn directly from people. if you have plans to travel, woofing is a good way to do it. woof is a network of organic farms that take volunteers who work for bed and food. there are farms that do this all over the world, they vary in size and again it's a great way to learn. and if you're starting to think the way you do, you should check out books by back to the lander, scott nearing and also some anarchist literature. zines/pamphlets are a great way of dabbling and are very cheap. you can order stuff like that online from microcosm publishing, last gasp and active distribution. you seem to have a healthy disdain for capitalist society. more power to you

[dweezil]

http://lightoutblog.blogspot.com/200...eville-nc.html found this while trying to find the name of that collective that put the good book out. i haven't read his blog, but scanned through and there seems to be a good bit about activities he took part in while visiting asheville. he also gives some good links and welcomes correspondence...so is you wanted to see good online stuff about alternative living this seems a good place to start.

[harvey123456]

Tell me about simplifying one's lifestyle and living more deliberately and sustainably. Have you heard of Freegans?

[dweezil]

check out food not bombs for the ultimate "freeganism".

[MrDoom]

Have you heard of Freegans? I have now (with a little clarification from Wikipedia). Interesting. I've heard of people who do that, going around reclaiming discarded food. I can see how some people (many, actually) might be repelled or disgusted by the thought, but it's actually quite ingenious.

[Serkat]

I have now (with a little clarification from Wikipedia). Interesting. I've heard of people who do that, going around reclaiming discarded food. I can see how some people (many, actually) might be repelled or disgusted by the thought, but it's actually quite ingenious. It's ingenious for middle-upper class white kids to pretend to be homeless and eat garbage and dirty shrubbery under the guise of philosophical relevance? I would disagree. Ingenious is having a vision, getting a degree and actually contributing something to society. Also, time is money I would argue is a false equation. You can't lose or gain time, which makes it an entirely different concept from money. At best, this kind of thinking will BRING you into the circle of mindlessly amassing money as an end in itself and "investing" time, the circle I figured you wanted to break out off. I suggest you read something on slowness, such as In Praise of Slowness. Don't get brainwashed by this anti-capitalistic nonsense, you'll end up living in some shit hole, growing carrots in your cupboard and feeling superior to people who actually work. unfortunately some people need distractions in life, and paid work for many people is a distraction. instead of thinking of how to work for yourself ie: build your own home, work your garden (to feed yourself), keep animals, chop fire wood, build community with neighbours etc...people work jobs to have false comforts. This is why we have society. You should look it up. We trade goods and services, so that not everybody has to live in a tent and defecate in the wild, so we can have roads and cars. This seems to be beyond your ability to comprehend.

[dweezil]

It's ingenious for middle-upper class white kids to pretend to be homeless and eat garbage and dirty shrubbery under the guise of philosophical relevance? I would disagree. Ingenious is having a vision, getting a degree and actually contributing something to society. This is why we have society. You should look it up. We trade goods and services, so that not everybody has to live in a tent and defecate in the wild, so we can have roads and cars. This seems to be beyond your ability to comprehend. i really don't understand why you do this every time. yet again i will serve you your ass on a plate. middle class kids eating discarded food does not classify them as having a desire to be "homeless". again check out food not bombs for real "freeganism". NEXT society is NOT western capitalist society, which is what you seem to think it is. a society is a grouping of individuals characterized by patterns of relationships between these individuals that may have distinctive culture and institutions, or, more broadly, an economic, social and industrial infrastructure in which a varied multitude of people or peoples are a part. Members of a society may be from different ethnic groups. A society may be a particular people, such as the Saxons, a nation state, such as Bhutan, or a broader cultural group, such as a Western society. The word society may also refer to an organized voluntary association of people for religious, benevolent, cultural, scientific, political, patriotic, or other purpose. ergo....it can be whatever people make it. also it doesn't mean the difference between driving on a road and shitting in a bush. although it seems that this is what people like you would prefer to believe...i have no idea why, it really doesn't make sense. i have a degree in sociology, which is the study of societies. and i must suggest that you yourself look it up, and stop making sweeping statements which really have no validity for the subjects being discussed. MrDoom is looking around him. looking at what is already there and questioning. why do you feel so threatened by that and feel the need to step in to warn him against the "crazies"? he wants to know about something you obviously don't care about or feel the need to learn about, so why are you even trying to get in on this thread? why not let mrdoom read about the things he's questioning and form his own opinions? and...mr doom as you quote nietzsche in your signature, i really liked "and thus spoke zarathustra" and a lot of it was pretty relevant to what we're talking about.

[Serkat]

middle class kids eating discarded food does not classify them as having a desire to be "homeless". again check out food not bombs for real "freeganism". You're still wallowing in trash for that extra world-savory effect. Where I come from, there are plenty of professional private non-profit organizations that regularly collect all the unsold food from supermarkets etc. to give them to the poor. They do this using cars. This works perfectly fine, without having to invade somebody's property. It's 50 times more effective than a bunch of teenagers pulling old bagels out of a trash bag. I will still say that these are probably good-meaning well-intentioned individuals. But humanitarian effort is much more efficiently realized with the right amount of money. Savaging dumpsters isn't really gonna help as much as developing pesticide, medicine or whatever, i.e. being productive or getting rich and donating the money. Freeganism on the other hand is the epitome of an unproductive and parasitary life. Yeah, pretty much what communism is about. Also, if society can be whatever people make it, then why can't I make it Western society? Oh snap. ergo....it can be whatever people make it. also it doesn't mean the difference between driving on a road and shitting in a bush. although it seems that this is what people like you would prefer to believe...i have no idea why, it really doesn't make sense. You were the one suggesting that it's a good idea to shit on compost and plant carrots on your balcony instead of working a respectable job. Your little rant on sociology has no relevance. I said that people should trade goods and services. Hence, you don't need to plant carrots, dispose of your bodily waste and collect water from rivers to shower with. You can buy carrots in supermarkets. You can make use of the sewage system that our ancestor so intelligently designed.

[Taosaur]

Serkat, could you speak at some length in the direction of my garden? Please just try to spread it evenly.

[Serkat]

Serkat, could you speak at some length in the direction of my garden? Please just try to spread it evenly. What? You mean my linguistic proficiency could be use to fertilize your lawn?

[kichu]

Serkat, could you speak at some length in the direction of my garden? Please just try to spread it evenly.

[Serkat]

Do I need a degree in agriculture to understand this joke?

[Taosaur]

Do I need a degree in agriculture to understand this joke? No no, plants just like when you talk to them. Could you turn about twelve degrees to the left and tell us more about why other people's lifestyles are absurd?

[Serkat]

That is hilarious.

[dweezil]

Serkat, could you speak at some length in the direction of my garden? Please just try to spread it evenly. you are awesome! dear serkat: "Where I come from, there are plenty of professional private non-profit organizations that regularly collect all the unsold food from supermarkets etc. to give them to the poor. They do this using cars." that's what food not bombs does silly! i told you to check it out. now you really look like a fool. "Also, if society can be whatever people make it, then why can't I make it Western society? Oh snap." because you are just one person, and that would be a dictatorship. ie: a fascist state. but your ideal is pretty close to that. "You were the one suggesting that it's a good idea to shit on compost and plant carrots on your balcony instead of working a respectable job." NEVER said that. i said it's good to have a BALANCE between paid work and work you do for yourself. sucks to be you!!!

[Serkat]

dear serkat: "Where I come from, there are plenty of professional private non-profit organizations that regularly collect all the unsold food from supermarkets etc. to give them to the poor. They do this using cars." that's what food not bombs does silly! i told you to check it out. now you really look like a fool. Yeah, except they're teenagers with no work experience or qualification and mostly communists and anarchists which translates to absolute inefficiency. They're not "professionals", they go around town bugging shop owners, trespassing and stealing and carrying bags of old bread. They serve vegan and vegetarian food which is absolutely fail, considering the laughable nutritional value of shrubbery and bunny food to poor people. I'm talking about actual companies that have mutual agreements with other companies and run ads on TV. They own actual housing and kitchens and don't serve the same ol' stew everyday. And they serve fucking dead animals which is win. "You were the one suggesting that it's a good idea to shit on compost and plant carrots on your balcony instead of working a respectable job." NEVER said that. i said it's good to have a BALANCE between paid work and work you do for yourself. Well, duh. This is why we have an 8-hour work day, not 16-hour. It's not like everybody has maids to cook and clean their houses, you know.

[harvey123456]

Wow, I started a fiery debate. Nice.