Tell me about C++ Programming

I made quite a number of attempts to learn the language on my own but I found it far too immense to learn it (or I just didn't have patience to stick with it because there are other things I'm focused on right now.)

I would just like to know if it's worth my time. That was another thing that held me back from trying to go back to learning it.

If I learn it, would it guarantee getting a job in the IT field? And also do you have to be good at math to learn it?

Thanks in advance.

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Originally Posted by Underenigma

If I learn it, would it guarantee getting a job in the IT field? And also do you have to be good at math to learn it?

Thanks in advance.

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does knowing how to drive guarantee you a job as a race car driver?...

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If I learn it, would it guarantee getting a job in the IT field?

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It wouldn't guarantee, but it would help

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And also do you have to be good at math to learn it?

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Just having knowledge of basic algebra is fine.

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but I found it far too immense to learn it

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the actual language only has about 40 keywords and even then you will only use half of them regularly. Learning APIs is what will take the most time.

For graphics programming, maths is needed. If you can't get your head around vector maths, matrices, and all sorts of mathematical goodness... you are boned in that area.

For most programming, basic maths and algebra will suit you just fine. For a programming job, you'll need to have a good knowledge of several languages, depending on which area you wish to go in. Know your target...

No one I know uses C++ for graphics. In graphics speed is everything and even the best C++ compiler can't beat real C. Luckily for programmers, C++ can read most C libraries :P

I would recommend learning C first, C++ is a superset (mostly) of C. C is procedurally oriented, which I think is easy to learn at first than OOP.

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Originally Posted by Underenigma

If I learn it, would it guarantee getting a job in the IT field? And also do you have to be good at math to learn it?

Thanks in advance.

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Depends on what you want to do. Apparantly the best method is to get in where you can (whatever field that may be) as any job, Customer Service etc...and work your way up. I have heard that they like to promote from within. I actually made a thread similiar to this...

I've since decided to play around with visual basic first since when I downloaded it came with free and easy to understand tutorials. I'll work my way up to other languages later.

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Originally Posted by ninja9578

No one I know uses C++ for graphics. In graphics speed is everything and even the best C++ compiler can't beat real C. Luckily for programmers, C++ can read most C libraries :P

I would recommend learning C first, C++ is a superset (mostly) of C. C is procedurally oriented, which I think is easy to learn at first than OOP.

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I did graphics programming in C/C++ with an OpenGL API, so there you go. It was mostly for learning how to do rendering properly, though I also went as far as debugging the code so to work on both Nvidia and ATI graphics card (The university only had systems with Nvidia cards, so a bug slipped by which prevented the program from running on systems with ATI graphics cards).

Historically, C ruled up on high for games
reason being, while C++ was good, as a language
the compilers weren't quite as good as their C counterparts
and programming in C gave you better (more optimised) binaries

This is not the case today
today, C & C++ compilers generate equally good binaries

C, however, still has the edge on program memory footprints
but this is not a concern for anything outside of embedded systems

Game engines (or anything needing raw speed) written in either language are equally viable

If you have no programing expierence, i would suggest learning a easier language first like C# or java (C# for games, java for w/e else, they are about the same) C# is almost just as good as C++ now without all the niky syntax. First language i learned that was OPP was java and it was fairly easy. Id suggest that or C# if you don't know how to program and want to learn OOP.

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Originally Posted by bluefinger

I did graphics programming in C/C++ with an OpenGL API, so there you go. It was mostly for learning how to do rendering properly, though I also went as far as debugging the code so to work on both Nvidia and ATI graphics card (The university only had systems with Nvidia cards, so a bug slipped by which prevented the program from running on systems with ATI graphics cards).

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OpenGL can be used in C++, I didn't say that it can't. Remember, C++ can read C libraries (OpenGL is written in C and asm.) Doing extensions in C++ is what is rarely done.

Games usually require that specialized extensions be written, those are done in C almost exclusively.

Hi. A verbose post from me here. What I'm trying to do here is give you some perspective over why learning multiple languages is a wise move. I'm also partially arguing for C++.

No single language will guaranty you a job. What you need to learn is the techniques required to handle most problems in any language. Most of these can be learned in any of C++, Python, Ruby, Haskell or what have you. If you know how to do object orientation (A common way to structure programs), for instance, it doesn't matter if you do it in C++ or Python. Or if you know how a map/hash table (A common way to store data) works in C++, figuring out how it works in Java is trivial. (But what might seem like a contradiction, is that to gain the ability to see the language independent features of programming, you will have to learn more than one language.)

This really applies to specific APIs too. For instance OpenGL contra Java 3D. This summer I've been working for a research institute where they develop tools for control room designing. They use Java 3D. I've used Java in the past, but I've never done any Java 3D programming before. My only 3D programming experience has been using OpenGL in C++. But it took me less than three days to get up to speed in Java 3D to the point where I could start doing stuff that was useful for my employer.

The advantage of learning C++, contra a lot of other languages, is that the spectra of different ways to program a c++ program is large. Bigger than for instance Java, where you are (dead) locked to object orientation. In C++ you can do low level code and fiddle with pointers (direct access to the computer memory). Learning the object oriented approach gives you a basic mind-tool-kit, to handle the programs. This is just the same as in Java. Templates gives you a whole new way to think about many things. (Generics in Java just isn't strong enough for my needs.) All this might be be both a source for headache and moments of true euphoria (which is what I get when I realize a cool way of programming something. Guess I am a programming junkie.).

Another thing I would like to point out is that if you would like to make Graphical User Interfaces (GUI), TrollTech's Qt is the way to go. Qt is an open source, cross platform library for GUI in C++ that has everything. It's not really difficult to learn once you've grasped object orientation. Qt is also ported to other languages. A bit of googling will give you a list. None of the GUI libraries for Java come close in my mind.

(The following is really the important part)

For me, learning C++ really elevated my understanding of programming. I cannot guaranty the same for you, since I don't know you. But if you decide it worth your while, I really recommend buying A BOOK. Every online tutorials I've seen, has been been inadequate to raise your C++ skills to what they need to be to be able to get a job. Reading a book (or even better, reading several books), gives you more in depth knowledge. It will also tell you about, and guide you around the traps and gotchas of the language.

This goes for any programming language. Read a book, type off the examples, play with them and do the exercises! This way you will have some examples you can peek at, customize and improve when you make your own programs later.

(The following section is more of an afterthought)

I might sound a lot like the world is all C++ vs Java here, but it's not. That is, it is some times, some places. A lot of job requirements will say that Java or C++ knowledge is preferred. But there are a lot of other languages out there that will give you new ways to look at programming. If you learn a new language, you'll learn things that you can take advantage of even when coding C++ or Java.

My favorite language is Haskell, it really takes programming to a whole other level of abstraction. But learning it took patience. At times I felt that all my years of doing C++, Perl, PHP, Java and BASIC didn't help me at all when I was to code a Haskell program. But now that I've got the hang of it, I really don't want to program in neither Java or C++ any more. They seem too verbose and rigid. The ideas and the mathematical foundation (Yes, programming has a lot to do with maths. But often it is very simple math.), for Haskell are really new and very innovative. So learning Haskell I really felt that I learned programming for the 21th century.

Another cool language is Python. It is more like C++ and Java, with object orientation and all, but it works on a higher level. Giving you more time to figure out how you want to solve the problem at hand, not struggling with getting every index variable bounds etc correct.

Hope this is of some help.


Ichor

There's always been a lot of discussion about what to learn first. Where I went to school, the CS students started out on Java, and we computer engineering students started out on C/C++. A few years in, the difference was very clear: Most of the people that started out on Java did not seem to be able to wrap their heads around the notion of pointers and memory management. To them, "references" are a magic thing that you don't need to worry about, and it really shows in job interviews. If you're thinking about your career, my advice is this:

Make sure you understand the concepts, and don't fall into the trap of being bound to just one technology. We're in an ever-changing world, and it'll only change faster. People who know C++ have a much easier time picking up Java than people in the reverse situation. You can start with either, just understand what's going on under the hood, and what goes on under the hood on other systems.

Through experience, I've found that the worst job candidates are the self-proclaimed "Java Developers". They seem to be very narrowly-trained and completely unadaptable if the discussion doesn't involve technologies related to caffeinated beverages or musical fruits. If I ask you what a hash table is, and you tell me "it's a serializable collection in java.util", even after I clarify that I'm interested in the CS concept of a hash table, you WILL get shot down like a nice guy at a dance club.

Once again, I'm not trying to tell you what technology to choose. Just be careful not to shoot yourself in the foot by seeing the whole world through the filter of that technology.

Very interesting post, Ichor.

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Originally Posted by ichor

I really recommend buying A BOOK. Every online tutorials I've seen, has been been inadequate to raise your C++ skills to what they need to be to be able to get a job.

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I did not know this, I had thought online would be enough, but it does make sense a book would be better. Is there any one in particular you recommend for starting out?

Well, CProgramming.com is what I use, and it works fine. It has C/C++ tutorials. It actually teaches the language too. I suggest C first, because, well look at the diference:

Code:

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#include <stdio.h>
int main()
{
  printf("Hello World!");
  getchar();
  return 0;
}
^^C

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Compared to:

Code:

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#include <iostream>

using namespace std;

int main()
{
  cout<<"Hello World!";
  cin.get();

  return 1;
}
^^C++

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C is more, well, in ENGLISH. Try that first.

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Originally Posted by Serith

Very interesting post, Ichor.



I did not know this, I had thought online would be enough, but it does make sense a book would be better. Is there any one in particular you recommend for starting out?

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One that includes a primer on Object-Oriented Analysis and Design would be good. While any book will teach you the syntax of C++, very few will touch on OOA/D, which is arguably more important than any programming language.

Knowing OOA/D makes the difference between being a code monkey who can write what he's told to write, and being a competent software designer who knows why the syntax is being used in such a way and can design functional and extendable (not to mention aesthetically pleasing) code.

Here is someone who puts it all into perspective.

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Originally Posted by xXSomeGuyXx

Well, CProgramming.com is what I use, and it works fine. It has C/C++ tutorials. It actually teaches the language too. I suggest C first, because, well look at the diference:

Code:

---

#include <stdio.h>
int main()
{
  printf("Hello World!");
  getchar();
  return 0;
}
^^C

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Compared to:

Code:

---

#include <iostream>

using namespace std;

int main()
{
  cout<<"Hello World!";
  cin.get();

  return 1;
}
^^C++

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C is more, well, in ENGLISH. Try that first.

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Um... it's not the englishness of it that makes it more complex. It's the OO/templates stuff, which is a whole separate competency, taught in separate classes, etc.

If that's what you're worried about, I suggest you go ahead and learn the basics in C++... if you're learning the procedural stuff, then use C++, which lets you do things like declare variables just as they're about to be used:

Code:

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for(int i = 0; i < n; ++i) { ... }

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That's illegal in C, because you aren't allowed to declare i there... have to declare it at the top of the scope. But then when you get into classes and stuff, you'll know what all that "<<" stuff is all about.

Also, the STL makes a lot more sense than the libraries that do some similar stuff that you have in C.

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Originally Posted by Replicon

But then when you get into classes and stuff, you'll know what all that "<<" stuff is all about.

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Syntactical Sugar

:D
I forget who said that, but I've always liked it as a description

Heh yeah, that's basicaly it. This ain't lisp after all

All your advices are very helpful actually. Another thing I was not sure what programming language I should go with but you narrowed it down.

Thank god I'm just an Analyst lol HTML is about the limit to my language skills!

lolz

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Originally Posted by xXSomeGuyXx

Well, CProgramming.com is what I use, and it works fine. It has C/C++ tutorials. It actually teaches the language too. I suggest C first, because, well look at the diference:

Code:

---

#include <stdio.h>
int main()
{
  printf("Hello World!");
  getchar();
  return 0;
}
^^C

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Compared to:

Code:

---

#include <iostream>
int main()
{
  std::cout<<"Hello World!";
  std::cin.get();
  return 0;
}
^^C++

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C is more, well, in ENGLISH. Try that first.

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??

Those are programms.

...

That hardly shows a difference.

C++ can use Printf.

Oh, really? I didn't know that. Shows how much I know...

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Originally Posted by xXSomeGuyXx

Oh, really? I didn't know that. Shows how much I know...

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I think that printf is considered a legacy command and no one really uses it. Except for me, I use it all the time for debugging because I hate using breakpoints unless I have to.