Thread: Tell me - When did you Become you!

Should be in lounge/philosophy, about 12 years old, I think.
But we're of course always changing, I also became me about 3-4 months ago.

There is no way this belongs in Ask/Tell.

Philosophy, maybe?

I had a tough road, just last summer.
But then again, we are always becoming ourselves.

Originally Posted by Positive Mental Octopus

At what age did you ask yourself, this is me?

I think that's a question that one discovers the answer to over a long span of time (months, years, dozens of years). People change, personalities evolve, and we above all can surprise even ourselves with our own decisions and actions towards others. It is sometimes even necessary for another to point out characteristics you weren't aware you displayed, which upon some introspection can shed more light about why it is you do what you do, and how you feel about it.

The age I might have been aware of my own self could probably have been whenever I first used (or understood the meaning of) the word "I" or "myself" to differentiate between another person and that which is Me. Do I have any memory of this? No.

Around the time I became capable of coherent though. 3-4 years, maybe?

Last year, 16 yrs. old. That was the last time that I can remember.

Originally Posted by Positive Mental Octopus

At what age did you ask yourself, this is me?

I was young (like 7) I remember looking into a mirror and wondering what made me, "me"

Just wondering if some of you remember an awareness of your individual identity the first time.

That never happened to me because I understand that I am not what my birth certificate says...not really. I believe something about us is eternal, ineffable and was always in existence and will always be in existence (in some form or another), ergo whatever I am now (a human named Jeff) is temporary. We are not our names simply because we were "alive" before we entered into this flesh body. Once we entered into this physical plane of existence, we were given a birth certificate, social security card and eventually we'll receive certificate of death. Therefore saying "I am (your name here)" to me is a far cry from an epiphany merely because I know whoever or whatever I am transcends such a physical, temporary, emotional, spiritual (and yet wonderful) interactive life.

I Am that I Am (Hebrew: אהיה אשר אהיה, pronounced Ehyeh asher ehyeh [ʔehˈje ʔaˈʃer ʔehˈje] is a common English translation (King James Bible and others) of the response God used in the Bible when Moses asked for His name (Exodus 3:14). It is one of the most famous verses in the Torah.[citation needed] Hayah means "existed" or "was" in Hebrew; "ehyeh" is the first person singular imperfect form. Ehyeh asher ehyeh is generally interpreted to mean I am that I am, though it more literally translates as "I-shall-be that I-shall-be."

- Wikipedia

Honestly, I feel that "I am that I am" best describes who or what I am. That's my epiphany...and all the identity I need (in terms of understanding and identifying myself). The world, however will continue to know me as Jeff. And that's just fine with me.

There is no me.

'I' am a drop in the ocean of consciousness.

Now that I am older, I have no idea who I am, and I don't think I ever will.
To me my "name" means nothing
& is there for really no purpose except something for people to call me.

I've been this way a long time, perhaps for as long as I can remember. I guess you could count the turning points. Most recent one was...shit, I can't remember. A year ago, or longer, shorter.

I definitely don't have a 'moment,' but in my earliest clear memory I was probably a bit older than two, based on the fact that I could stand up and yell, "There's a bee in here!" whereas my little uncle, 5 months younger than me and in another crib in the same room, couldn't stand up or talk (he was slow developing and I was fast, so it makes sense he would have been 1 1/2 or so ). Obviously I wasn't considering my personal qualities, but I was aware that my little uncle was helpless/no help and that the adults were in the other room, so I apparently knew I was a distinct entity with different qualities from others.

We moved into town when I was almost five, and that's when I started being around other kids and feeling like I was different, and started being introspective.

It's interesting that some people can remember the first time they realized that they exist I wish I could remember, but in all my childhood memories I already know it.

How can it happen as late as 7 years old? You should already know how to speak and that means you know how to refer to yourself. You can't say 'I want to drink' without mentioning yourself.

I don't think it has anything to do with speech, though I guess it could certainly be a measure.

Anyway I thought the OP was asking when we first realized that we were individuals... but many of the responses seem to be about when the last time one's identity changed in a noticeable way?

I'm reminded of a study I saw once. It was a simple experiment: put some paint on a child's nose, and then place that child in front of a mirror. If he/she notices the paint as something that shouldn't be there/wasn't there before, then he/she is self-aware. There was definitely an age (maybe... 2 yrs old?) when children consistently did not notice the paint.

And then of course they did the same experiment with (adult) monkeys who noticed the paint and tried to remove it.

Interesting!

My first time I think was when I was about 4 years old. I remember dancing around or something, and then all of a sudden looking across the coffee table to where my mother was sitting on the couch, and I just stopped all of a sudden, and realized myself standing there in this world. It was the first time I can remember ever coming to self-realization.

Originally Posted by Mes Tarrant

And then of course they did the same experiment with (adult) monkeys who noticed the paint and tried to remove it.

Strange, I always thought that animals aren't self aware. My cat behaves as if she's totally not self-aware, and can't ever notice her own reflection in the mirror although she's an old cat. I heard about cats who could, however. All in all, using a mirror seems to be a faulty method of establishing if there's an identity or not, if even my old cat could never ever manage to notice her own reflection!

Originally Posted by Arutad

Strange, I always thought that animals aren't self aware. My cat behaves as if she's totally not self-aware, and can't ever notice her own reflection in the mirror although she's an old cat. I heard about cats who could, however. All in all, using a mirror seems to be a faulty method of establishing if there's an identity or not, if even my old cat could never ever manage to notice her own reflection!

Aha but that's precisely the point! Most animals don't notice their own reflection, and according to these rules these animals are not self-aware.

I think it's all really interesting, in terms of how it relates to animal rights on a personal and on a grand scale.

Originally Posted by Mes Tarrant

Most animals don't notice their own reflection, and according to these rules these animals are not self-aware.

How can it be happening that some animals and self-aware and some are not? I'd rather think that this method is faulty than think that adult animals differ in their self-awareness. Adult people are all self-aware.

What if those cats who can notice their reflection don't actually understand that it's their own reflection? They may think that it's another car, or maybe they notice movements in the mirror. Come to think of it, there were a couple of times my cat watched TV attentively, I think it was movements on screen that attracted her, but at all other times she ignores TV.

I just noticed what you wrote under your nick by the way, very funny

By the mirror standard, crows are self-aware, too: http://www.newscientist.com/article/...4_head_dn14552

It's so freaky... How do crows manage to understand that they're looking at themselves?

They're pretty smart. They can talk a little, remember where they hid things and deceive other crows.

I don't think self-awareness is the intention of the topic, here? When our first memory was is irrelevant.

I feel like I've been the same person since I was about 10, which I guess would place it. I've kind of had an idea of my own identity since I was 6 or so.

And, you guys should see the studies they do with chimps and elephants with mirrors. Very interesting stuff.

Originally Posted by Taosaur

They're pretty smart. They can talk a little, remember where they hid things and deceive other crows.

They can talk a little?! What do you mean?

Originally Posted by CoLd BlooDed

I don't think self-awareness is the intention of the topic, here? When our first memory was is irrelevant.

I think the OP talked about self-awareness... Mes Terrant made a correct observation that people find different meanings in the topic.

Originally Posted by Arutad

They can talk a little?! What do you mean?

Look the observation that some animals are self-aware and others are not is exactly the point. That's why it's such an interesting study.

Remember that that mirror study was more complicated than just looking at your reflection. It was about being aware of your reflection enough to do something about it when there was something unusual placed on your face.

Yeah cats don't understand that they're looking at themselves in the mirror. Often they think it's another cat. That's exactly the point!

In any case, I didn't conduct this study myself, so I don't have all the answers. I merely saw it and found it very interesting, and I don't recall ever seeing a different self-awareness experiment. Maybe there's a better way to do it...?

And yeah crows are pretty smart.