Lucid Dreaming For Insomniacs

I was wondering if there was any good advice for techniques that insomniacs can use to get lucid.
A lot of the techniques I read involve certain sleep cycles (i.e. sleeping for 4 hours to get into a certain cycle, waking up, going back to sleep for 4 hours etc...)
But what if you only get 4 hours sleep?

I am thinking a WILD technique would work best but I've never been able to get them to work too well (the dreams never seemed as vivid/stable). In the past I found DILD to be easiest for me, but now I dont know if I should be using this technique because my sleep pattern is chaotic, sometimes Im not sure if I have enough sleep to get into the rem stage.

So...any advice would be helpful, thanks!

Holy crap your avatar is disturbing........You really should change that.

Take naps. If you can take an hour or two, or even three during the day, the hours you get at night will have plenty of REM. I know, I've been doing it that way for for years. Sometimes even in the naps you can get vivid recall, and Lucid. Most of the time I don't sleep more than about four hours at a shot. Sometimes as little as an hour. But that doesn't stop me from getting frequent enough Lucids when I'm putting the effort into it. And I'm mostly a DILDer. I try to sleep in on my days off if I can.

I also have troubles with insomnia. There are times when even trying a short ten minute WBTB can cause me to not be able to fall back to sleep. I've been experimenting with a WBTB technique for insomiacs that I've had some pretty good success with if you want to try it. But keep in mind it needs to be used along side daily awareness work. I doubt any WBTB technique is all that effective without putting in the awareness work during your normal waking hours as well. At least it's not for me.

It goes like this. After sleeping for a little while.(In my case usually after getting up to use the bathroom, or any other time I naturally wake up)
Hold that single question in mind to the exclusion of all other thoughts. "Am I dreaming?" But instead of getting up (other than to use the bathroom of course) stay in bed, in the dark. Lay on the side staring at the digital clock in the darkness. Continue staring at the glowing numbers on the clock while holding that single question in mind. When the minute changes over do a quick RC, looking away from the clock and back again. Attempt to stare at the numbers with unwavering concentration for ten minutes straight. Usually I can't do it for ten minutes. Just after a couple minutes my eyes begin to droop and I can't hardly hold them open any longer. When this begins to happen I just let myself slip away into sleep, still holding that single thought in mind.

Ive gotten lucid quite a few times in the dream immediately following doing this. It's not only a way to induce Lucidity, but also a way to fight off insomnia. :) I guess you could even try it when first falling asleep at night if it helps you to fall asleep faster. It wouldn't hurt. May even add to your odds of Lucidity. I'll have to try that.

There is an ancient yoga technique to cure insomnia. It worked for my mum after 2 weeks practice. Starting at your feet. Tense your feet and ankle muscles hard and pause for a few seconds. Then do your calves, then thighs, buttocks, groin and so on working up through your body. Do all of your muscle groups until you end up scrunching up your face and skull muscles. Rest for five minutes. Repeat the entire process another two times so it takes about twenty minutes overall. Give it two to three weeks.

Thanks for the responses.
I have tried that yoga technique before, among other things. It is pretty good for relaxing, but didn't put me to sleep!
I think perhaps I am more 'nocturnal' than a true insomniac. I can sleep fine during the day, its dropping off at night that I can't seem to do.

Another question I have, I heave heard about how our bodies natural timer can help/hinder lucid dreaming attempts.
For example, at a certain time of the night your body may be producing more of a certain chemical/brainwave that make it easier to WILD. (Not sure how true this is, its just something I've heard).

So, I was wondering if these changes in the mind will occur late at night regardless of whether I am asleep or not?
So I'm still up at 5am, is my brain acting as if I should be asleep, and therefore during the times when I am really asleep during the day will it be more difficult to get lucid?

I am a world class insomniac. The easiest way I have found is WILD LD's induced with simple visualization techniques. A simple technique I have used is waking up two hours earlier then normal, turning on a radio station that play soft music (i.e. NPR) and imagining an ice skater moving to the music. The processes of visualization and of dreaming occur in the same area of the brain. Remind yourself that you WILL awaken in your dream. Happy LDing! :shadewink:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LostOnTrains

Another question I have, I heave heard about how our bodies natural timer can help/hinder lucid dreaming attempts.
For example, at a certain time of the night your body may be producing more of a certain chemical/brainwave that make it easier to WILD. (Not sure how true this is, its just something I've heard).

So, I was wondering if these changes in the mind will occur late at night regardless of whether I am asleep or not?
So I'm still up at 5am, is my brain acting as if I should be asleep, and therefore during the times when I am really asleep during the day will it be more difficult to get lucid?

---

I get Lucid during the day and at night. I'm no expert on the science of what you're talking about. But the way I see it, as long as you're having a good dream that you can recall, there is the opportunity to be Lucid. It's just a matter of whether or not you end up thinking about whether you're dreaming in your dream. That could happen in any dream if the question is in your thoughts enough while you're awake.

As far as WILD. Hmmm. I've done those both in the day and at night too. So I don't know. I think it depends more on your REM cycle than what time of day it is. Of course it's easier if you're going right into REM. That's why people say to WILD after sleeping a few hours first.
Me, I'm the oddball that usually has more success with WILDing while first falling asleep. Had a pretty odd one last night involving my hands, actually. Wasn't even really trying to WILD. Was just trying to focus on falling asleep. I think that's one of the benefits of having difficulty falling asleep. It's easier to stay aware as you do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Caradon

Me, I'm the oddball that usually has more success with WILDing while first falling asleep. Had a pretty odd one last night involving my hands, actually. Wasn't even really trying to WILD. Was just trying to focus on falling asleep. I think that's one of the benefits of having difficulty falling asleep. It's easier to stay aware as you do.

---

Ive been trying this, because when I get to bed it is so late, sometimes I feel like I am in a werid dreamlike state already. So far I havent had any luck but I know these things take practice.

I was a member here under a different name back in 2004. Back then I had an even worse sleeping pattern, and I used to lucid all the time. I wish I could work out what I was doing differently back then.