Lets say you learn all about the 44 presidents we have had, but you learned them in a lucid dream. Would you actually remember all that information even when you wake up in the real world? Can you actually gain intelligence through a lucid dream?
Lets say you learn all about the 44 presidents we have had, but you learned them in a lucid dream. Would you actually remember all that information even when you wake up in the real world? Can you actually gain intelligence through a lucid dream?
Of course you can.
Except you probably wont learn anything new as such. Like, you wont actually GAIN knowledge, because it's just your subconscious.
But some things that you didn't consciously realise might be revealed to you in a Lucid Dream.
By the way, welcome to DV!
Check out the Wiki, theres loads of tutorials in there! :D
Good Luck!
Night Spy2
Anuthin you have done, said, places you've been. Yes you will remember - unless your recall totally sucks =P.
Nito.
As NightSpy said, you're only projecting things from your own subconscious. I forgot where I read it but using lucid dreams to access things deep in your subconscious has helped many famous people discover very important things. I wouldn't say gain knowledge rather than remember it.
As caretaker said, you can't learn anything, but you can create stuff. Like you can't learn how a computer works, but you can come up with various ways of how you think it might work, and depending on your previous knowledge, you can actually come up with something new. I believe a few famous people (cant really list them) came up with their various inventions and ideas by lucid dreaming and thinking outside the box, outside realities rules. If you restrict yourself to what you know, and don't try all the stuff you do know but probably wont work, then you won't get anywhere.
I believe Einsein came up with the theory of relativity after a lucid. Before it made no sense, it didn't work. But by pondering on it in a dream, he could put lots of stuff that didn't work together, and what do you know, they do work once you try them.
Even if the information is accurate there's a limit to what can be remembered from dreams because memory function of the brain is impaired and to even remember lottery numbers is difficult let alone 44 presidents.
IMJ
WOW PEOPLE didt any of you read lucid dreaming journey to the inner self by Robert waggoner in is book he did a study with stephen laberge showing when your in a lucid dream you have access to vast amount of information known and unknown to MAN EX: stephen laberge did a test with a friend that he could find out were on her back were a freckle was without him telling him then he lucid dream and found his friend and searched her back till he found it then woke up and found his friend and told her and he was right and there is more examples i could tell you just ask
^ Do you actually beleive that?
The kind of knowledge available in a lucid dreaming (as with other altered states of consciousness) is quite different from the intelligence as we know it at the baseline awareness. As previous posters said, you will not gain factual knowledge unless you have already heard it somewhere before. What you may gain however, is insight. A rich intuitive understanding which is normally not available at the baseline consciousness.
Instead of 44 presidents, you may know what kind of person it takes to be a president, how hard that burden really is, and how much outside influence is placed on that person every single day.
PS. Unfortunately, since we normally do not work with this kind of information, it is rather hard to recall and process while awake.
just read the book and see for yourself :mad: it been scientifically proven i dont see how you could believe in lucid dreaming and see how vivid it is then think you cant get any information from it You dont know OPEN YOUR MIND
You're mistaking accessing knowledge with gaining new knowledge. Dreams are projections of your subconscious. You're not learning anything that you don't already know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Randoman
YA but in the book they talk about a collected unconsciousness so like information that out there could be tap in to i know it sound a little like shared dreaming but it completely different like when people have precognitive dreams they tap in to this its happen before
I think that's a very very cool idea and I'm very fond of it, but precisely for that reason I remain skeptical, because I really want it to be true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Randoman
then let try to test it :shadewink:
I need more recall and control for that. I'm going to practice right now, goodnight.
Randoman, I can't see how that can work. That involves the brain just suddenly knowing where a freckle is on a back. To know where it was he would have to have seen it or be told where it was. No other way. Since he didn't do either, there is no way he could have that knowledge to access in a dream. It just doesn't make sense.
My thoughts on the topic.
It all depends how you define "new knowledge". There are certain indications that practising a given activity, be it mental or physical, while dreaming (lucid or non-lucid) CAN (it doesn't necessarily mean it will) produce a spillover effect to the waking state. So if you define new knowledge as improvements in any aspects of skills you use while awake, then sure you get new knowledge.
If you wanna learn the 44 presidents, you would probably have to know it already, but in all fairness it is likely that you already do. In that case you could set out to meet everyone of them, which will attach a somewhat emotional memory to factual information (which, you already know, but since it doesn't have meaning for you at this time, there is no reason your brain exerts effort to keep it available for recall) and therefore make it easier to remember. Oh and BTW, this isn't the only way you could try and learn em all, just an example ^^. The concluding point here would be that to learn facts about the waking world, you would have to know them prior to the dream.
From another angle dreams in general can present information in ways that are unconventional. So (speculating here) lets say you are having problems with a math or physics equation or concept, you could get that presented in a highly abstract manner that conveys a meaning that has eluded you before through normal methods of teaching. For this to take effect the lucid aspects isn't as such needed, but certainly could help, but pre-sleep content forming might suffice. Here I would postulate the question for discussion if this is new knowledge?
Dreams would probably also allow you to see patterns that you (or maybe noone else) have noticed before, and here the combined fact of knowing something about something and the emergence aspect of pattern recognition, you would within systems theory define this as new knowledge.
Now there are also mentions of shared dreaming, Akashic records and similar, and as these concepts elude current scientific meassurement you will have to choose if you believe in this or not.
Dunno if it helps, but I enjoyed writing it, so at least I got something out of it ^^
Best of luck with your search :)
you can produce any forms of art with a lucid dream and remember it when you wake up. Anything NOT factual can be created or practiced in a Lucid dream. for Example: lets say you're practicing a song for the piano, you can practice it in a lucid dream if you have a piano in it. You can write stories and if you remember them, you can rewrite them in real life. The same thing applies for dances, visual arts and acting.
Practicing piano is one of my goals of lucid dreaming, and I haven't read any research or experiences testing this, but I'm very confident that I could save a lot of practicing and learning hours in my day if I could train myself to do it while dreaming.Quote:
Originally Posted by gameoverlord345
There is some research available and although I haven't read the article in mention the abstract should at least provide some hints or cluse that you can take further. I do intend on going through this, as my upcoming bac project and further study work will have dreaming and lucid dreaming focused. However this is also a warning that I am not an expert of any kind, I just happen to have access to some databases where such research can be found ^^.Quote:
Originally Posted by spookyfox
Nocturnal dreams can be considered as a kind of simulation of the real world on a higher cognitive level. Within lucid dreams, the dreamer is able to control the ongoing dream content and is free to do what he or she wants. In this pilot study, the possibility of practicing a simple motor task in a lucid dream was studied. Forty participants were assigned to a lucid dream practice group, a physical practice group and a control group. The motor task was to toss 10-cent coins into a cup and hit as many as possible out of 20 tosses. Waking performance was measured in the evening and on the next morning by the participants at home. The 20 volunteers in the lucid dream practice group attempted to carry out the motor task in a lucid dream on a single night. Seven participants succeeded in having a lucid dream and practiced the experimental task. This group of seven showed a significant improvement in performance (from 3.7 to 5.3); the other 13 subjects showed no improvement (from 3.4 to 2.9). Comparing all four groups, the physical practice group demonstrated the highest enhancement in performance followed by the successful lucid dream practice group. Both groups had statistically significant higher improvements in contrast to the nondreaming group and the control group. Even though the experimental design is not able to explain if specific effects (motor learning) or unspecific effects (motivation) caused the improvement, the results of this study showed that rehearsing in a lucid dream enhances subsequent performance in wakefulness. To clarify the factors which increased performance after lucid dream practice and to control for confounding factors, it is suggested that sleep laboratory studies should be conducted in the future. The possibilities of lucid dream practice for professional sports will be discussed. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2010 APA, all rights reserved)(journal abstract
The Sport Psychologist. Vol 24(2), Jun 2010, pp. 157-167
Hope it is useful =)
I wonder what would happen if you looked at a page with just words for no more than a second. You don't read the words, you just stare at it like a picture. Do you think your subconscious will have stored every word on that page?
Hmmmmm.... I dunno aye. Thats what I was thinking. Like, at school, I'm having some problems with my Algebra, and I've listened to everything my teacher has told me, it just wont go into my freaking brain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebat11
So, I wonder if in my dream, I could practice it somehow, or go through all the information that I have been told, so that I can get the hang of it.
Back to your question though, I think less than a second isn't long enough, but I think that if you quickly scanned the whole page, just taking in a few key words and reading the words, but not really taking them in, (Like 10w/s) then, probably yea, your subconscious will probably have taken it in, although you would probably need to access that information reasonably quickly before your subconscious 'deletes' it.
So are you talking about hearing things, and forgetting them, so you technically don't know them, like looking at a page of words for a second, and what you mean is getting information that you technically forgot?
So you don't mean learning something totally new just from your brain, you're talking about learning something new that you already saw but just forgot?
Remember, lucid dreams are in your head, so remember that nothing from the outside world you dont know can be accessed.
Yeah, but what I think he means is that you can see something, and forget it, so technically you never saw it, like the 13th car you saw today, can you remember what it was? No? So you don't know. I think what OP meant is that is it possible to learn stuff like that- things you saw, so it is possible, but you paid the least amount of attention to it, so it is technically not in your head.Quote:
Originally Posted by gameoverlord345
oh ok :P
Thats of course what I think anyways.
Think the more interesting question here is whether you regard simply memorising things as learning. The ability to remember facts doesn't really alter the way you understand a topic. Only if that fact is somehow connected to something else, lets say another fact, and a new understanding emerges would I call it learning. However I firmly believe dreaming can help connect these dots. Although there may be a story to tell regarding registering things subconsciously unavailable for waking recall, I believe that particular capability is irrelevant with regards to the question of "gaining knowledge through dreams".Quote:
Originally Posted by Origami
However if your goal is to practice memory and you are seeking a way to access things you normally wouldn't have access to, then ofcourse it is an interesting discussion, I don't know whether or not dreams can do that for you though =P. In general it is possible to "prime" people so they will recognise certain words faster than others, but I don't know if you can actually recall these words in dreams.
Yeah, that does sound reasonable. I've found at random times doing math, pertinent information would pop up proving to be useful. But then again I don't know if that was the subconscious at work, or regular practice with math. Like a dream journal I've found writing things out stay with my long-term memory as opposed to trying to memorize it by looking at it.
You should sleep after you try and learn something. Sleep, in particular REM sleep, helps consolidate newly formed memories making them more available for recall. I find that when I am studying for an exam I take quick naps whenever I feel tired and it helps me remember the meaning of whatever topic I am at work with (I study psychology, but I am sure it is the same for the natural sciences). This aspect of sleep is widely recognised in experimental psychology. Conclusion, if you try to hard you may ruin it, try sleeping on it before you read it again ^^.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebat11
Although the discussion is till open for actually gaining knowledge through dreams they certainly help consolidating what we already know. If you are to believe the stories of people (myself included) waking up with new found understandings and ideas, they do, but these reports haven't been as stringently controled as the memory experiments (to my knowledge at least).
Sometimes however I also find myself getting a brand new idea or angle at a topic although that wasn't even remotely connected to the theme of the dream.
What I was saying is that you remember much more than what you think you remember. If someone showed you a list of 20 things, and you had to memorize everything in one reading, you wouldn't be able to. You could maybe recall 7 things. But your mind will remember everything. So deep in your mind you can go back and access that list in full, in your subconscious. Your waking mind can't though.
So yes, you can learn stuff you didn't know before, but only if you have seen it before. Like you can recall a list you only saw once, but you can't suddenly understand what UFOs are.
I could've sworn that I posted a thread exactly like this one. It's definitely a very interesting aspect of lucid dreaming. You can't gain knowledge because when you dream nothing new is coming into your mind, but they are excellent sources of creativity and inspiration. When you dream, your logic centre is down so ideas that your mind wouldn't normally associate together can collide and form new ideas; for example, Einstein dreamed that he was on a sled going at the speed of light, which proved to be invaluable when he developed special relativity), and Salvador Dalí described his painting, the 'persistence of memory' as 'painting his dreams.'
So you can use your dreams for inspiration but don't rely on them to give you knowledge.
Why couldn't I just say that?