The Dream Project

Hello !

I have one and a half years experience with techniques to induce consciousness within a dream, and I have my own experiences on what works and what's not, but I need yours!
I just started working on my school project in Psychology.
To make a long story short I am just going to write down my main questions that I wish to answer.

I have chosen to focus on dreams, but especially lucid dreams.

The questions that I wish to have answered when this project is done are:

1. Can a person access his/ or her own subconscious?
2. How does a person do just that?
3. What can a person use that ability to?

I start with saying that the experiments or techniques that I will let you try, is all done from the evening to the morning. None of these experiments will have anything to do with awareness during the day. Because I will let you do as little work as possible.
I will decide what techniques you will use, because I need statistics.
Although experienced lucid dreamers who have lucid dreams almost whenever they want would be nice to interview too. So anyone can join.

PM me if you want to take part in this project.

My classmate and my dad is already in. So that makes two so far! ;)

Thanks. Christian.

Good luck on your endeavours!

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Originally Posted by Arch

Good luck on your endeavours!

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Thank you ! :D

I welcome Origami to the project. That makes 3! 4.. with me =)

Do we post our work after each night in the thread or just pm you?

Pm or write here doesn't matter :)

Now we are 5 ! 6 with me I aim for 10 people although the more the better.

Okay, well to keep the topic bumped I'll post here.

Last night didn't do anything special. I laid in bed and stared at my hands, looking them over and doing different things with them in the air. I repeated in my head "Next time I see my hands, I will be dreaming". I did this without much distraction for about 5 minutes, then I laid in bed and tried to fall asleep. After a while again I did the same as before, looking my hands over. Throughout the entire time of falling asleep I repeated the mantra in my head.

Eventually I forgot the mantra and fell asleep normally, and had a few dreams, not as vivid or as numerous as normal, but I'm not going to attribute it to the method just yet.

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Originally Posted by Origami

Okay, well to keep the topic bumped I'll post here.

Last night didn't do anything special. I laid in bed and stared at my hands, looking them over and doing different things with them in the air. I repeated in my head "Next time I see my hands, I will be dreaming". I did this without much distraction for about 5 minutes, then I laid in bed and tried to fall asleep. After a while again I did the same as before, looking my hands over. Throughout the entire time of falling asleep I repeated the mantra in my head.

Eventually I forgot the mantra and fell asleep normally, and had a few dreams, not as vivid or as numerous as normal, but I'm not going to attribute it to the method just yet.

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Ok good enough, but even though I said you can think about what you want while looking at the hands, I don't want you to have any expectations yet.
So you wont be dissapointed if it don't work and so on, right now I just want you to have the hand thing like a procedure, just look at them nothing more.
Do that this night too and tomorrow I will give you another task.

Ok, no mantra, just looking and affirming.

I also need experienced lucid dreamers, explaination of how the lucid state feels like.

And I can gladly announce that there now are 7 people taking part in this project. Seven happy souls :)

Hey Choi, do you by any chance have skype or MSN were we can chat without the PM limitations?

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Originally Posted by Ethan1221

Hey Choi, do you by any chance have skype or MSN were we can chat without the PM limitations?

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I'll pm my Skype name =)

my close friend ethan, whom you all might know as Ethan1221, has convinced me to begin lucid dreaming and to join this project

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Originally Posted by mikhailov305

my close friend ethan, whom you all might know as Ethan1221, has convinced me to begin lucid dreaming and to join this project

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I am glad to here that. Very analytic guy that Ethan, but the point with this is to not be that. Because I will tell you to do easy things and the goal is not to let you try to get lucid, the goal is to make lucidity come to you :) Without much effort.

Send me a PM!

We are now 10 !

Choi! Whenever you go online I would like to tell you all about my first day :)

Bumping with nothing.

Did my part last night, looked at my hands and then tried to imagine them in my peripheral vision. I kept forgetting about it and going back to it, but again, not much happened last night. Dreams were a bit better than they were the previous few nights, but still not really up to my usual standard. Not sure if related to the project, assuming it isn't.

I'm going to do the same thing tonight for my fourth night.

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Originally Posted by Origami

Bumping with nothing.

Did my part last night, looked at my hands and then tried to imagine them in my peripheral vision. I kept forgetting about it and going back to it, but again, not much happened last night. Dreams were a bit better than they were the previous few nights, but still not really up to my usual standard. Not sure if related to the project, assuming it isn't.

I'm going to do the same thing tonight for my fourth night.

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Good, don't be disapointed if you don't have lucid dreams just yet, the reason to why these exercises are desgined easy, is to not have you working hard for a lucid dream and getting disapointed.
You will later on understand why you do these exercises, and by the end of this project you will have tired all the basic techniques, and some more advanced. But it's all a build up.

Don't doubt, believe with persistence =)

What is the project exactly? Is it to prove something or to test out a theory?

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Originally Posted by Origami

What is the project exactly? Is it to prove something or to test out a theory?

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The goal is that all the people will attain lucidity and then I will interview them and that will work as a proof to non-believers that lucid dreaming is possible.

And the second goal is to find the best induction technique.
Atleast what worked best.

Then hopefully I can take a step further and give people tasks inside the dream to see if communicating with one's inner self is possible and to proove if a dream is a projection of the subconscious mind.

This project seems interesting. If still possible I'd like to join.

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Originally Posted by Dawnseeker

This project seems interesting. If still possible I'd like to join.

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Sure I send you a PM

alright I'll post my experiences here. starting with night one:

I remember 3 dreams from last night :) (most of the time I recall only one) the first one was around 01:00 when i woke up after someone came home making noise. I memorized the dream but couldn't force myself to write it down and then drifted of. the only thing i now recall from that dream is:

someone told me to cleam something up. I didn't want to do it and walked very slowly to it and tried to find reasons for a delay. I then stood still and examined my hands in the dream...

thats all I can recall, but I knew there was more when I woke up. I really shouldn't be so lazy at night and just write it down next time :P
the other dreams I recalled in the morning with more detail, just like I usually do.

Night 4:

Nothing special, I did what I was supposed to, my dreams were as usual, about 4.
What's next for me?

Night 5:

Nothing much, my recall is better than last night again. What's next?

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Originally Posted by Origami

Night 5:

Nothing much, my recall is better than last night again. What's next?

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Great I'll send you a PM

Night 2:

an ordinary night for me. recalled different dream fragments upon awaking, not sure if they were from one or multiple dreams, but the recall was vivid.


I'll continue when I receive further instructions.

Night ... er, 7:

Nothing much, slightly better quality of dreams again, and I also remember looking at my hand and thinking of my mantra, but I instantly woke up. Like as soon as I saw my hand the background changed to my room and my hand disappeared as it was really still under the covers.

This project sounds cool. ^_^

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Originally Posted by Origami

Night ... er, 7:

Nothing much, slightly better quality of dreams again, and I also remember looking at my hand and thinking of my mantra, but I instantly woke up. Like as soon as I saw my hand the background changed to my room and my hand disappeared as it was really still under the covers.

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Wohoo keep trying!

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Originally Posted by Pandabear

This project sounds cool. ^_^

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Hihi thank you! :) And indeed it is I have learned a lot about dreams and psychology too.

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Originally Posted by Choi

Hihi thank you! :) And indeed it is I have learned a lot about dreams and psychology too.

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Yeah. :D I think it's a brilliant idea with the hands. Because you often see them in a dream.

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Originally Posted by Pandabear

Yeah. :D I think it's a brilliant idea with the hands. Because you often see them in a dream.

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Yeah, it's not my idea though :P That technique is from Robert Waggoner's book "Gateway to the Inner Self"

night 3:

regular night, regular recall. the only thing was that in the dream I remembered I was somewhat aware of it being dream and I changed the situation more to my liking by just demanding it. I did not become lucid though. when a dream character asked how I did it, I didnt know and i couldnt do it again.

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Originally Posted by Dawnseeker

night 3:

regular night, regular recall. the only thing was that in the dream I remembered I was somewhat aware of it being dream and I changed the situation more to my liking by just demanding it. I did not become lucid though. when a dream character asked how I did it, I didnt know and i couldnt do it again.

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Keep up the good work!

night 4

I remember 2 vivid dreams. in one dream I walked out a suburb into a forrest and I liked it so much that I slowed down and just admired my surroundings. that part was vivid, I loved it. if only I could be lucid in such a vivid dream...

Night 8: Nothing much.

Lot of fragments which would have been recalled dreams but I didn't write them down as I felt I already had enough recalled dreams at 5 dreams. All day yesterday and today I was/is/will be looking at my hands and telling myself it's a dream and that whenever I see them I will do the finger count R.C. I think it's sinking in a bit.

I am on Night 5 for tonight, and if nothing else, I can visualize my hands without trying much. That is awesome!

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Originally Posted by Origami

Night 8: Nothing much.

Lot of fragments which would have been recalled dreams but I didn't write them down as I felt I already had enough recalled dreams at 5 dreams. All day yesterday and today I was/is/will be looking at my hands and telling myself it's a dream and that whenever I see them I will do the finger count R.C. I think it's sinking in a bit.

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Great! But remember that you only do what you feel that you want to do. It's not supposed to be hard.

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Originally Posted by TheKing

I am on Night 5 for tonight, and if nothing else, I can visualize my hands without trying much. That is awesome!

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Good luck :)

Night 9: Well now

I had loads of dreams. Like 4 copy pages of the stuff. More than I have ever had. I wouldn't say I was close to a lucid dream, but the sheer amount I had last night was impressive. I counted about 8 full dreams, one of which was very late in the morning and quite epic, and a load of little fragments.
I'm not really sure that this was because of the project, I see this as a one off night thing. But lately my dreams have been improving since the project, so you never know.

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Originally Posted by Origami

Night 9: Well now

I had loads of dreams. Like 4 copy pages of the stuff. More than I have ever had. I wouldn't say I was close to a lucid dream, but the sheer amount I had last night was impressive. I counted about 8 full dreams, one of which was very late in the morning and quite epic, and a load of little fragments.
I'm not really sure that this was because of the project, I see this as a one off night thing. But lately my dreams have been improving since the project, so you never know.

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Great! No the project can't take the credit :P It's you work, but my goal was to make you more aware of your dreams and then use the hand technique.

night 5:

another 2 dreams I recalled. I did experience a kind of awareness, but not on surroundings (like the night before). I explained some stuff about my study to a dream character and I could explain it very clearly and saw all connection in my mind. when I woke up I realised that everyting I said in the dream correct. so I had some kind of high level science conversation with a DC, with the logics of my waking mind...

I am not participating, but I will check this thread for now on, to see what happen. Will you post the tasks on this thread anytime you change them?

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Originally Posted by sanctispiritus

I am not participating, but I will check this thread for now on, to see what happen. Will you post the tasks on this thread anytime you change them?

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No I pm people the task, but I can send them to you even if you aren't in the project. You might change your mind hehe ^^

Night 10: Regular stuff.

A decent amount of dreams, mostly during the later stages of the night, (I wake up after almost every REM). I did however, during my lie in after 6:30, fall back asleep and dreamed about being in my garden. I saw a bee flying around and went "Aw shit, it's gunna sting meh" so I think a waved at it and ducked away, but then I also tried to summon fire to burn it. That didn't work, and it eventually stung me on my neck, which made me jolt awake. Very peculiar, the trying to form a fireball to make it fly away. I don't normally try to do supernatural stuff in my dreams, I just go along with whatever plot there is.

So whats next?

I did that last night, even when I do not see much difference with other techniques. A bunch of dreams , but I could not remember anything in the morning.

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Originally Posted by sanctispiritus

I did that last night, even when I do not see much difference with other techniques. A bunch of dreams , but I could not remember anything in the morning.

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I'm not trying to invent or find a new technique, I am trying to make them lucid :P And perhaps find out what technique that works best.

night 6 (one night delay because of a party, alcohol and no recall the night before)

another three dreams that I could remember. the first was fuzzy, but the other two were very vivid. In one dream I actually died, but chose to come back to life as I didnt like. this kind of minor control (not lucid) as well as the increased vividness and increased dream count makes me really positive about this :), thanks for this project that keeps me motivated!

I do need day 7 and 8 now

This project seems good for dream recall, haha. :D

Night 11. Doing the same as before, night 12 will be my next task.

Nothing much, good amount of dreams. My dream score (I score my dreams each night, herp derp) has gone down a little, but it's not low in any way. The actual numbers since the project are: 7, 5, 8, 7.5, 8.5, 8.5, 8, 9, 7, and last night was 7, so a little dip, but nothing too extreme.

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Originally Posted by Pandabear

This project seems good for dream recall, haha. :D

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First step to lucid dreaming (awareness of dreams) =)

Night 12: Went to bed late

So as a result, pretty poor night, only 4 dreams, with a 6.5 score. Well I had a reason, was telling my friend about lucid dreaming and he was really into it, so I couldn't just leave him hanging could I? So is it the same for tonight again or do I get a new task?

Wohoo my friend, who didn't even believed in lucid dreaming, got his first lucid dream last night!

He was super excited and motivated. He had looked at his hands and realised that he was dreaming, then he looked around and admired the vivid environment. He then looked at his hand and he had 7 fingers on one hand. He then started to worry about not being able to stay in the dream and then he woke up.

2days ago, again a bunch of dreams without remember anything in the morning. Last night I had a LD dream. It happened in the middle of the night at 2 am more or less. I felt paralized and I could not move. My body floated and in some way was transported from my bed in a vertical position as if I was a mommy. First I was in my room then in the living room and finally outside of the house on the street, but I could not move, as if I was watching a movie. At some point I saw a blue sky but then everything was black. I was not able to rotate or do anything because I was paralized, so I decided to wake up. After that I have 2 or 3 non lucid dreams.

Wow this project seems super interesting! I'm also a beginner and haven't experienced a lucid dream yet. Would love to join/or if you could pm the tasks just try it for myself. As previously said it does seem to improve your dream recall which always is a good thing!
Keep going!

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Originally Posted by Julebrygd

Wow this project seems super interesting! I'm also a beginner and haven't experienced a lucid dream yet. Would love to join/or if you could pm the tasks just try it for myself. As previously said it does seem to improve your dream recall which always is a good thing!
Keep going!

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Sure I will PM you the task that have worked the best.

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Originally Posted by sanctispiritus

2days ago, again a bunch of dreams without remember anything in the morning. Last night I had a LD dream. It happened in the middle of the night at 2 am more or less. I felt paralized and I could not move. My body floated and in some way was transported from my bed in a vertical position as if I was a mommy. First I was in my room then in the living room and finally outside of the house on the street, but I could not move, as if I was watching a movie. At some point I saw a blue sky but then everything was black. I was not able to rotate or do anything because I was paralized, so I decided to wake up. After that I have 2 or 3 non lucid dreams.

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Wow! Good job :)

Night 13. Another late night.

So even less dreams than before. I did wake up at my WBTB time, but I was just too tired to actually get up. Tonight, I will, WILL get out of bed and do a WBTB. It's the only technique I ever used that brought me even remotely close to an LD. I feel like I'm running out of things to try, even the mantra from this project hasn't done anything.

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Originally Posted by Origami

Night 13. Another late night.

So even less dreams than before. I did wake up at my WBTB time, but I was just too tired to actually get up. Tonight, I will, WILL get out of bed and do a WBTB. It's the only technique I ever used that brought me even remotely close to an LD. I feel like I'm running out of things to try, even the mantra from this project hasn't done anything.

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Naw don't give up :P One thing that can help you s going to bed at the same time each night. except for weekends of course. And you almost got one lucid dream once so just keep doing it. You don't have to write the result here each time, it might pressure you.
My friend just kept doing the exercise without even believing that lucid dreams existed and he got his first.
So just keep doing the exercise, and do something of your own on the WBTB if you feel that it isn't enough.

I'm just keeping the topic bumped and up to date.

Ill just keep doing the hand mantra's and awareness. now that I'm this far into it I think I can keep on doing this and I truly belief the lucids will come sooner or later :)
As for now, my dreams are way cooler. they are so vivid and I really enjoy "living" them. las night for example I went past the victoria waterfall by boat, and I can still see those images in my mind with a lot of details.

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Originally Posted by Dawnseeker

Ill just keep doing the hand mantra's and awareness. now that I'm this far into it I think I can keep on doing this and I truly belief the lucids will come sooner or later :)
As for now, my dreams are way cooler. they are so vivid and I really enjoy "living" them. las night for example I went past the victoria waterfall by boat, and I can still see those images in my mind with a lot of details.

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Great! But remember that your dreams aren't more vivid, ok they are vivid. But don't give the dreams the credits, because it's you who are more aware of them! Have the same mindset with this technique, yeah it's a good technique, but it's you who are doing it!

Nothing again last night, if have stopped with my mantra as even though I did it as much as I could (must have said it well over a thousand times a day) it still didn't work, not even slightly.

I am doing WBTB along with Moto's idea in his thread "Automatic Lucidity". I'm seeing how that's going.

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Originally Posted by Origami

Nothing again last night, if have stopped with my mantra as even though I did it as much as I could (must have said it well over a thousand times a day) it still didn't work, not even slightly.

I am doing WBTB along with Moto's idea in his thread "Automatic Lucidity". I'm seeing how that's going.

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Ok that's fine. The idea is to make you lucid so I then can let you do the real experiments.

But it looks like you have been doing what gives most people their "dryspells".
Of course you want to have a lucid dream I understand that. But you need to have a more calm way of looking at "unsuccessful" attempts. Instead of writing/thinking (nothing this time, I'll try another TECHNIQUE. See this lucidity quest as a game, because the dream will allways try to convince you that you are awake, even when you are lucid. So try to recall as much of a dream that you can, and you have already made a good job, try to see how close you were. Because if you have vivid dreams, then be happy about that, because dreams are always vivid, but it's only when you are aware of them, that you realise that. So a try to recall a vivid dream, and if it was vivid you were CLOSE to lucidity and it's only a matter of time before you get your first lucid.

Try to not even care about the outcome, just do some techniques. Although trust yourself and not the technique. When you understand this lucidity will come more easily. I'm a living proof to that and the project's result is too.

Well I say nothing happened last night because nothing did happen. As like the previous nights, nothing happened worth mentioning. It would be bad if I came on here everyday and described every single one of my dreams. Btw, about 4/5 dreams I have I would consider vivid. The other one I would say would be too short or I wouldn't have a body, or I was miles away from being aware. Often I do have dreams with me having a thought process.

Take last night for example. I was in an attack helicopter, and there were two enemy helicopters. I heard over my radio a guy tell me what they were and that they were tough. When I took one out I remember myself thinking "That's one down, now for the tough one". To me this is a step up from just knowing what's going on, I still think like in real life, except I don't just click and see that it isn't real life.

I might appear so, but I don't see every non lucid night as a failure or a waste. I see them as either good or bad depending on my dreams. If I go to bed late and get crappy sleep and one dream, that's a night wasted. If I go to bed and have 6 good dreams, those were just missed chances, but still a step forward. The more good dreams I have, the closer I am. It's just taking longer than everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Origami

Well I say nothing happened last night because nothing did happen. As like the previous nights, nothing happened worth mentioning. It would be bad if I came on here everyday and described every single one of my dreams. Btw, about 4/5 dreams I have I would consider vivid. The other one I would say would be too short or I wouldn't have a body, or I was miles away from being aware. Often I do have dreams with me having a thought process.

Take last night for example. I was in an attack helicopter, and there were two enemy helicopters. I heard over my radio a guy tell me what they were and that they were tough. When I took one out I remember myself thinking "That's one down, now for the tough one". To me this is a step up from just knowing what's going on, I still think like in real life, except I don't just click and see that it isn't real life.

I might appear so, but I don't see every non lucid night as a failure or a waste. I see them as either good or bad depending on my dreams. If I go to bed late and get crappy sleep and one dream, that's a night wasted. If I go to bed and have 6 good dreams, those were just missed chances, but still a step forward. The more good dreams I have, the closer I am. It's just taking longer than everyone else.

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Ok good :) It just seemed diffrently. But you don't have to bump this thead anymore with the result, but send me your dream journal so I can follow your progress if you have one.

There are only 2 pages to it and neither are really lucid dreams. They count, but only lasted like a second or 2.

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Originally Posted by Origami

There are only 2 pages to it and neither are really lucid dreams. They count, but only lasted like a second or 2.

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Ok you don't have to write down your normal dream, but at least try to remember them and memorize them somewhat.
Anyway a good motivation to Dream Journaling is this software: http://www.dreamviews.com/f26/dreamj...-dreams-91993/

It give you different ranks depending on what you have accomplished, pretty fun =) I went from no one to Reality Checker yay ! :)

Last night was good, not as many dreams but quite action-y and fun. Parts were clear, yet I wasn't really on the verge of breaking through to a lucid though. My friend incidentally had a lucid dream last night after only a week of trying. Annoying, but it's given me new drive to have one myself, and I'm going to ask him about it later.

EDIT. I forgot you didn't want the topic bumped after every night, sorry

I tried the hand mantra, visualization, and awareness the other day and got a lucid dream from it!

Choi, you need to delete some of your messages, it won't let me send you a message.

anyways, here's my dream. i am standing somewhere and suddenly remember to look at my hands. my vision gets blurry so i lower them. it clears up and i do a nose pinch RC. i can breathe. "SWEET!!! I'm dreaming!" I start doing something, then remember my plan. " oh yeah, the CPU room!" i say. i look around and see Chris. "hey Chris, can you take me to the CPU room?" "Sure." he says, then starts walking. we walk into my backyard, and there is a strange closet-sized building there. it has a rusty keyboard and Chris tells me i have to imput a password. I try several of my computer passwords and none of them work. "What's the password?" Nick walks up and says "E V." i type in eve, and start looking for an imput button. i find a tab thing and try to press it. it breaks. "Where's the imput button?" i ask, then wake up.

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Originally Posted by Wristblade56

I tried the hand mantra, visualization, and awareness the other day and got a lucid dream from it!

Choi, you need to delete some of your messages, it won't let me send you a message.

anyways, here's my dream. i am standing somewhere and suddenly remember to look at my hands. my vision gets blurry so i lower them. it clears up and i do a nose pinch RC. i can breathe. "SWEET!!! I'm dreaming!" I start doing something, then remember my plan. " oh yeah, the CPU room!" i say. i look around and see Chris. "hey Chris, can you take me to the CPU room?" "Sure." he says, then starts walking. we walk into my backyard, and there is a strange closet-sized building there. it has a rusty keyboard and Chris tells me i have to imput a password. I try several of my computer passwords and none of them work. "What's the password?" Nick walks up and says "E V." i type in eve, and start looking for an imput button. i find a tab thing and try to press it. it breaks. "Where's the imput button?" i ask, then wake up.

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Great =) But I ment a description of how it felt like, did it felt vivid or unstable? What's the difference between this experience and reality? Those type of details.

it was pretty vivid, stable. felt a lot like reality. the difference was it wasn't real (as far as i know). when i breathed through my nose it felt like i was just breathing normally, only my nose was closed shut. is that what you wanted to know, or did i misunderstand again?

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Originally Posted by Wristblade56

it was pretty vivid, stable. felt a lot like reality. the difference was it wasn't real (as far as i know). when i breathed through my nose it felt like i was just breathing normally, only my nose was closed shut. is that what you wanted to know, or did i misunderstand again?

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Hehe no I guess that was enough. I'm just trying to get you to know the different sensations and feelings of the different states, because when you can feel the difference you will become more aware of the dreams and you also become more lucid. And I have let people who have become lucid describe the feeling to see if everyone has the same sensation of it.

I'm not only doing this to help me understand the dream "evironment" better, but I also do this to proove to my teacher that lucid dreaming is possible. Because I can't use EEG :)

Remember, new techniques takes time. Don't give up!

i think i had a lucid last night, but i was too lazy to crawl out of bed and record it. this technique does seem to be working for me.

It worked again! i think. all i know is i had a lucid that lasted almost a whole day last night! since it was so long i don't remember much from it, but i recorded all i could:

i am at danny's house. i'm talking to him about something, and doug shows up. doug says something to danny, then notices me. "how the @#!% did you get here?" he asks, confused. "I don't know" i say.

memory skip to somewhere in the middle of dream

chris and i are somewhere ( i assume danny's) and he's playing a video game. i decide i want to go inside the video game and decide to test it with chris first. :twisted: i assure myself he'll fly through the screen and land in the game world, and grab him. i swing him towards the tv, then away a few times, then throw him at the TV. "OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !"
he says, clutching his head. it didn't work, and i laugh.

memory skip to end of dream.

I am outside my bedroom window and see the sun going down. i don't want to fight any monsters, so i foolishly decide to wake up. i go through my bedroom window and sit on my bed. This weird guy from one of my games pops his head in the door and congratulates me on having my first day-long lucid dream, then leaves. i sit criss-cross and close my eyes. i start to meditate and wake up.

i think i was only semi lucid, else i would have tried some stuff, flying, CPU room, ect. and i wouldn't have woke myself up if i was fully lucid. BUT I HAD MY FIRST SUPER-LONG LD!!! :banana:

Do you have lucids often? Because that would contribute heavily to your method that you are doing. A total noob could do the same and not get the same results as fast or at all.

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Originally Posted by Origami

Do you have lucids often? Because that would contribute heavily to your method that you are doing. A total noob could do the same and not get the same results as fast or at all.

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I get lucid moments very often, but I always gets tricked by the dream that I am awake, so the lucidity doesn't last long. Although this is enough to make me motivated.
But I know how to get lucid at will, but unfortunately we don't have the time for it... If you do the WBTB exactly as Stephen LaBerge describes it, you will get lucid.
The real WBTB is to go to sleep at your regular time and get up 1 hour before you normally get up, stay up for one hour until you reach your normal "get up time" and go to sleep with a mantra.
At least for me this is a guranteed way to attain lucidity, but as I said I don't have the time for it.

So a normal WBTB for me is shorter and therefore the rem is shorter, but it's still long enough to make you lucid, but it's harder to become aware.
So I sleep for 6 hours then I close my alarm and then I fall asleep immediatelly, and this is good enough to make me have more lucid moment dreams, than normal dreams.
So I am completely confident that I will succeed some day.

So WBTB is the best "technique".

There is however another method which is 100 % for me to work, but the lucid dreams only last a short period because an alarm wakes me up.
The Timer Method a guide I wrote, but it's the lucidology 101 that should take the credit. This will give me 20 awakenings to try to lucid dream on, but right now I am focusing on natural lucid dream inductions, but I will do this method on the weekend to make sure that I atleast have one lucid dream each week.

But a total noob did these techniques (my friend), and he got lucid, but if you don't get the result you have expected feel free to test other techniques, but just remember to put your confidence in yourself and not the technique.

Interesting. I could try LaBerge's WBTB on a weekend, as I have to be in school an hour after I get up, so weekdays wouldn't work. Plus I already lie in too much so thats a bonus. I'll try it earnestly on saturday.

What about you Wristblade? How many have you had before?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Origami

Interesting. I could try LaBerge's WBTB on a weekend, as I have to be in school an hour after I get up, so weekdays wouldn't work. Plus I already lie in too much so thats a bonus. I'll try it earnestly on saturday.

What about you Wristblade? How many have you had before?

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Great! But I wasn't completely honest.. His techniques is even more extreme than that. Although the way I described it works as good.

Here is the way he describes it, you won't believe your eyes:

1. Before going to bed, set your alarm to wake you up 2-3 hours earlier than usual, and go to sleep at your normal time.
2. When your alarm wakes you up, get out of bed immediatelly, you are going to stay up for 2-3 hours. Go about your business until about a half hour before returning to bed.
3. For the half hour before returning to sleep think about what you want to accomplish in your lucid dream; where you want to get, what you want to see, or what you want to do.
4. After two or three hours have passed since you awakened, make sure you sleeping place will be quiet and undisturbed for the next couple of hours. Go to bed and pracctise the induction technique that works the best for you.
5. Give yourself at least two hours to sleep.

That is far too extreme when you can just practice awareness and reality checks to have them just by going to sleep, and then almost every night, not just when you want to get up out of bed early. This would cut down on sleep so much.

It's obvious this was an early technique that is the grandaddy of other techniques we have refined today. There is probably no need to do all that really now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Origami

That is far too extreme when you can just practice awareness and reality checks to have them just by going to sleep, and then almost every night, not just when you want to get up out of bed early. This would cut down on sleep so much.

It's obvious this was an early technique that is the grandaddy of other techniques we have refined today. There is probably no need to do all that really now.

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Well the technique are not really refined, only adjusted. He came up with this techniques with test persons in a lab. And this style of WBTB had a really high success rate, so high that he could test out the eyeball communication method to prove lucidity.

Well it's doable at least. If it is THAT successful then I may as well try it on Saturday, or Sunday so I have saturday to get myself used to getting up that early

Origami, i never kept count of my lucids. i've had a lot, most were short, crappy. i've been lucid dreaming for about 2 years now, having success once in a while. i was in a bad dryspell when i started using the hand-awareness/RC thing that Choi told me, it's pulled my out and it's like it shot me out a cannon, i'm having almost nightly lucids, though it might quit working eventually, it's only been 3-5 days since i started.

If it's given you nightly lucids from nothing for months then there is no way it would just up and stop giving you lucids. Only if you left off the gas and eased off would they go down. Believe they won't, and they won't. I'm sure you know all about belief by now.

crap, no lucids last night. i'll try harder today.

Oh well, no method is 100% perfect.

As for me I had a slight dip in my recall as of late, but last night it picked up.
But no matter what I do I can't get anywhere above "Last night was quite vivid and I saw my hands but didn't think anything of it".
That's the best I have managed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Origami

Oh well, no method is 100% perfect.

As for me I had a slight dip in my recall as of late, but last night it picked up.
But no matter what I do I can't get anywhere above "Last night was quite vivid and I saw my hands but didn't think anything of it".
That's the best I have managed.

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I'm thinking about making WILD exercises to the project, would you be interested to try those out?

Well I am already doing SAT, and I do wake up after every REM cycle I have, and it is the weekend... plus it's the only one I haven't really tried earnestly yet.

Okay, I'll try it, but it's supposed to be difficult right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Origami

Well I am already doing SAT, and I do wake up after every REM cycle I have, and it is the weekend... plus it's the only one I haven't really tried earnestly yet.

Okay, I'll try it, but it's supposed to be difficult right?

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Yeah, there is a difficult version and an easy version Traditional WILD and DEILD :)
But keep doing SAT then, just make sure that you don't pressure yourself.

Hm, I can do DEILD I think. I wake up at least 4 times a night (after each REM) without an alarm so in theory I can do it.

Well I tried LaBerge's WBTB technique.
The silly get up 3 hours early and stay up for 2 of those hours.

I normally wake up at 8, so I set my alarm for 5. I stayed awake in bed until 7 and went back to sleep. Well before I did the WBTB I noted down the dreams from the sleep before waking up, but after the WBTB I forgot them totally! I did have twice the amount and vividness of dreams after the WBTB, but no lucidity. I don't think I did the waking up part properly, as I just lied in bed for the two hours. Tonight, I will at least sit up and do something.

i think i had a lucid this morning but i didn't record it.

man i gotta stop being so lazy lol

You definitely do if you manage to have lucids while some of us continue to have trouble having them in the first place.

YEAH! I had lucid :D :D :D
it had nothing to do with the hands and i didn't even RC... just suddenly I knew I was dreaming so clearly that I didnt need a RC. maybe it was because the surroundings were very alike another dream I had a few nigths earlier.

anyway I had a great time. first I changed the weather in small steps to a bright blue sky. then I added more tropical things to the surroundings and made it more to my liking. then I tried flying, something i couln't do in previous lucids. this time I could after a few tries. when I fell after a failed try, the grass felt really realistic and pleasent. all the time someone was with me, but I didn't knew him. he gave instructions about the flying and also learned me some way to v-wild. he said i had je imagine myself in a tornade of colours moving around me faster and faster, until it was so fast that it all seemed white. then I could recreate the landscape and enter a dream. I tried this after the flying and could teleport to anohter place. sadly I woke up after that.

I was really convinced in my dream that the colour tornado thing would work for WILDing, so I'll try it :)

Ok it seems like many people have attained at least a lucid dream or a lucid moment, and that was the goal.
Now I need as many people as possible to describe the lucid dreaming feeling in a PM to me. (so you don't get influenced by each others posts.=
And if you sometime in the future find that you in some way can answer some of the questions here below, that I am trying to answer, feel free to message me.

1. Can a person access his/ or her own subconscious? (By this I mean to really try to find out if the dream is a projection of our subconscious like Sigmund Freud thought.)
2. How does a person do just that? (Tell me about you lucidity induction, was it really the techniques or was it your own experiences that teached you how so to speak.)
3. What can a person use that ability to? (If lucid dreaming literally change your life by answering question about yourself or if you discover something else)

I am also planning on writing about dreams in general and what importance dreams have had to other people through out the history.

(4.) So it would be interesting to see why people dream today, so send a pm to me where you answer "What do you think dreams are? Does they mean anything to you, and why do you want to lucid dream?"

Thank you so much for all the help! I am writing this project in Swedish, but maybe sometime in the future I translate it and post it here.

I hope you keep learning and experience a lot of new stuff, I have started to learn how to be able to stay in the dream so I can finally stay and explore the dream world.
I will add some of my own experiences here, but if I don't, read my Dream Journal.

And if you have any questions or want to learn anything new, just ask :)

Thank you !

Choi.

My recall is horribly inconsistent. I will remember 6 dreams one night, an fragments of one the next. I am close to a breakthrough.

My dad had his first lucid dream this morning! And he didn't motivate himself or even cared about the result, he did just like my friend, just did the exercises for the project's and my sake.
He didn't even got excited when he got lucid, instead he stayed a little bit and then the dream tricked him that he was dreaming again.
I asked him about the clarity and he said that it was vivid and felt real.

I tried Stephen LaBerge's WBTB method, properly this time. I got up at 5 and stayed awake until 7, by sitting up in bed, a bit of meditation, listened to some music, and er... stuff.

Anyway when I went back to sleep I guess I tried to WILD, I lay down very still and didn't move. This is where it get's weird and I want some advice and insight on this.

After a while, really not sure how long, I felt some mild S.P. onset. I have had it before and this time it was very tame and less jarring. I was relaxed even more when it went away, and then I tried to clear my mind. I could barely keep a straight thought but after a while I saw my family through my eyes as we all sat around the dinner table. I was arguing with my mum over what my sister was eating. (BTW she has been away to college for about 3 weeks). I then realized it was a dream and instantly shot back into my own body, eyes still closed and still....still. Then later on again I felt the same kind of daydreamy feeling and I saw my hands in front of me. My right hand only had three fingers but I barely saw them before I was out of the dream again.

By this time it was my usual get up out of bed time but today I got a lie in.
My question is, what was I doing, and how could I step over the line and stay in those dreams? I also had a decent amount of dreams recorded after I woke up to do my WBTB, and I had a regular long one after those two instances happened.

I have also made my thoughts become dreams, you have to realise that it's exactly the same thing. The only difference is that the dreams feels real, and you are also aware of what I so far suspect to be the subconscious, so you can aslo get surprised and see things you don't consciously add and this is dreaming.
I think what happend to you was either excitement or that you got too surprised, this however seemed to have been a really good attempt, you just have to experience more of these sensations and be prepared for anything. This is the mot common misstake people make when they WILD/ DEILD - Transition, they get too excited, surprised or chocked and this make the dream unstable for some reason. Sometimes you just wake up without any of these reasons, and even though you try to DEILD you just can't I don't know why, it might have something to do with REM-sleep or something I don't know. Also be prepared for a lot of false awakenings.

But the solution for your "problem" is to do this more times and build your own knowledge based on your experiences, there isn't really anyone who can tell you what to do except yourself.

Anyway congratulations to your WILD =) and keep up the good work! And keep me posted!

Oh and also tell me to help me out with the project: Did it felt real? Otherwise describe the feeling.

So it was a WILD? Ok, well I'm going to do the same thing tonight again, at the same time, 5am, stay awake til 7 and then I have to get up at 8:30, but my alarm is for 8 so whatever.

I am definitely going to try this again and again, it's the only thing that has shown promise outside of placebo. This isn't placebo because I didn't expect to start a WILD, I was aiming to just fall asleep and do a DILD basically. Maybe I can get better with this method and finally get a few lucids under my belt.

Yeah, but it sounds like you DILDed, but you were very aware. The definition of DILD is that you fall asleep and lose your awareness and then in the dream retain it and get lucid.
The definition of WILD is that you fall asleep, but you never lose awareness and then you see your thoughts become the dream, so you never lose awareness.
But there is no Relaxation -> sleep paralysis -> dream step, unless you have the sleep atonia disorder.
When you see your thought's vividly in front of you eyes you are tuning your awareness into a non-physical focus and when you are fully emerged to the dream you will get paralysed, but sometimes not even that. So there is only a relxation -> Dream step, but sleep paralysis is just a term to know the difference between when you are close and so on, so you can't feel the sp wave and so on. You can test this out by laying in your bed for a long time, you will feel your body get numb and even som small vibrations, but this isn't sleep paralysis, sleep paralysis is dreaming!

It doesn't really matter if you DILD or WILD if you get lucid =) But WBTB is the best technique, natural DILDs are good too, but I have never been able to stabilise them to perfect clarity. That I can only do in combination with a WBTB. But when you are new the point is to just get lucid dreams and experience the sensations, so it doesn't really matter either.
Although you can lucid dream anytime, if you just tune to the other sensations, but they will just feel like thoughts and nothing near the real experience you feel in REM, but you can still access information though, but it's really hard, I have only been able to do that with a WBTB.

WBTB is the best :D

But remember don't trust a word I say :P Only trust your own experiences, that's the way you learn!

Right, so it was a WILD then. It went "S.P like" wave, then relaxation, then sleep or nearly sleep. I say nearly because I never actually went to sleep and woke up a few minutes or hours later, it was like I was daydreaming, and I saw the daydreams much more vividly than normal, then I instantly snapped out of them, I think, as soon as I realized what I was seeing, instead of passively observing. If I hadn't noticed, I think I would have just started dreaming, which is what I did a while later, when I had that dream at the very end.

So if this is WILD, then what are the ways to stay in a dream, if I just get kicked out as soon as I realize it, but can't (or probably can't) control once then fully come about?

Well I don't do traditional WILDs as it seems like you were trying, I only use awakenings so DEILDs and then it's exactly like you did and then I just find myself standing in a "dream" and it feels real.
With traditional WILDs I have no real experience of how to tranistion, I have read from Michael Raduga and Lucidology how to to transition.
Here is their theories:

School of Out of Body Experiences:

When you find yourself in this daydreamy state and you suspect that you can transition try the following:

Try indirect techniques to see if you are in a non-physical focus and can start dreaming.

Here are some examples of indirect techniques but google for more or download his free ebook:
Every technique here you are supposed to vividly feel sensations!

Rotation - feel yourself rotate
Observing Images - Look behind your eyelids and try to see images (observe as a panorama)
Listening in - Listen for sounds and listen closer to amplify them.

If you feel any of these sensations amplify them until you feel that they reach their peak and then try a separation technique:

When they reach the peak you are already dreaming, you are laying in a dreambed and you are in a non-physical focus. Get up!
The problem here is that it's easy to get back into a physical focus and wake up so visualisation is safer, but harder.

- Get out of bed
- Visualise yourself levitate out
- Roll out
- and so on

Lucidology:

When you are in that daydreamy state look for memory impressions: How to Have Lucid Dreams -- Excerpt from SaltCube Video - YouTube
I don't remember what to do next, but PM me and I can tell you more when I remember :D

Watching the video, thanks a lot, and I will.

Well I WILDed last night again after a one hour WBTB. During that time I did some maths homework and meditated (or sat on my bed and centered my thoughts, not sure if that counts lol).
Anyway when I went back to bed, I layed on my side comfortably and saw some real, proper HI! I saw my dream journal and the pen I use, and I (Using Maloc's fast grab technique) grabbed the pen and really felt it in my hands, it was really vivid, more so than any vivid dream I had. I looked at the writing and saw it was typed, and none of the words made sense, plus they changed before my eyes. Throughout I knew this was a dream, as I never really transitioned, it was just me on my bed and then I see this. I lost it after about 20 seconds, then later on I tried again and was in a room with furniture. I touched a chair, cupboard and my arms and really felt it, but I couldn't see very clearly, it felt like I had tunnel vision and was zoomed in. Then again I lost it and was brought back to my body in my bed after 20 seconds.

This is still a big step for me as I'm sure now I'm going in the right direction. So if I manage to get lucid by this, would I be able to have more of them more easily, and then eventually not have to do WBTB's anymore? I don't feel tired in the morning, but sitting on my bed for an hour in the cold and darkness sucks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Avalanche

Well I WILDed last night again after a one hour WBTB. During that time I did some maths homework and meditated (or sat on my bed and centered my thoughts, not sure if that counts lol).
Anyway when I went back to bed, I layed on my side comfortably and saw some real, proper HI! I saw my dream journal and the pen I use, and I (Using Maloc's fast grab technique) grabbed the pen and really felt it in my hands, it was really vivid, more so than any vivid dream I had. I looked at the writing and saw it was typed, and none of the words made sense, plus they changed before my eyes. Throughout I knew this was a dream, as I never really transitioned, it was just me on my bed and then I see this. I lost it after about 20 seconds, then later on I tried again and was in a room with furniture. I touched a chair, cupboard and my arms and really felt it, but I couldn't see very clearly, it felt like I had tunnel vision and was zoomed in. Then again I lost it and was brought back to my body in my bed after 20 seconds.

This is still a big step for me as I'm sure now I'm going in the right direction. So if I manage to get lucid by this, would I be able to have more of them more easily, and then eventually not have to do WBTB's anymore? I don't feel tired in the morning, but sitting on my bed for an hour in the cold and darkness sucks.

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Cool :D And I see that you have changed your username :o
Good attempt, but to answer your question, you can WILD and dream whenever you want if you can change into a subconscious focus in a blink, but if you want those vivid and real adventures you have to be in REM. So I would still recommend you to do WBTBs.

But if you meant "that you don't have to stay up" my answer is no, you don't, I never do that, I just notice that I have woke up and fall asleep. So you can try to just stay up for some seconds and then try to WILD.

I will still keep up with my WBTB, and I suppose once I have the WILD thing down, I will try to decrease the amount of time I have to stay awake for, as it is a drag and annoyance, even if it contributes greatly.
Theoretically, if I WILD often enough at the same time each night, I will remember to WILD while asleep, and slip into a lucid dream then and there.

But that is a long way off, now I'm just focusing on a repeat of last night. Put the WBTB effort in and results are sure to come.

Haha my whole family have been lucid dreaming now.
My mom described an experience and asked me if that was what I am doing, this is what she said:

"I had a dream about a long room with windows on all the sides and it looked like some kind of museum. I started to walk, but then my alarmclock woke me up.
I pressed the snooze button, and then I tried to go to sleep again and then I was back in the same dream and I thought "Why do I allways dream about this room? Oh I am dreaming!"
Then green glasmen started to throw glasbottles at me so it was a very unpleasant dream, but I was aware. Then I woke up from the alarm again."

I asked her about the clarity and vividness of the dream:

- "Did it felt real?"
- "No it felt weird and surreal"
- "I mean did the sensations feel like reality?"
- "Oh, yeah I would say so"

Wohoo! Now she believes in lucid dreaming too :D

I told 3 of my friends about lucid dreaming. I basically pitched it to them, as an idea, a dream world in which you can do anything you want, etc etc.
One just listened and then basically went whatever.
Another did the same thing, as he was there too, but later on I talked to him about it again and he has gotten into it, at least I think so, he doesn't say much about his efforts.
And the third I told started up a dream journal with at least a weeks worth of about 2 dreams, but then he had to move to college and so hasn't been able to keep up with it, unsure of how he is doing.

Why people just shrug this off as "Hurr durr, dreams are kinda gay, this sounds like bullshit, too much effort for something stupid", while us lucid dreamers actually saw the potential straight away and try endlessly to get there?

My mind cannot fathom why they wouldn't at least look it up.

But I digress. I'm off to watch Inception now that I borrowed off my buddy. See you in 2 hours 20 mins!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Avalanche

I told 3 of my friends about lucid dreaming. I basically pitched it to them, as an idea, a dream world in which you can do anything you want, etc etc.
One just listened and then basically went whatever.
Another did the same thing, as he was there too, but later on I talked to him about it again and he has gotten into it, at least I think so, he doesn't say much about his efforts.
And the third I told started up a dream journal with at least a weeks worth of about 2 dreams, but then he had to move to college and so hasn't been able to keep up with it, unsure of how he is doing.

Why people just shrug this off as "Hurr durr, dreams are kinda gay, this sounds like bullshit, too much effort for something stupid", while us lucid dreamers actually saw the potential straight away and try endlessly to get there?

My mind cannot fathom why they wouldn't at least look it up.

But I digress. I'm off to watch Inception now that I borrowed off my buddy. See you in 2 hours 20 mins!

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They don't believe it because it sounds like science fiction to them when you just say "be aware of a dream".
Instead tell them that a dream is just a thought, but when we are in REM our thoughts (subconscious thoughts) get's vivid and that is why a dream can feel like a real experience.
I told my friend about recall

"At first you will not remember a single thing, and you may say that you are not dreaming, but you are dreaming every night, you just don't remember it.
When you pracctise your recall, you will soon realise that your dreams feels like real experiences, it feels exactly like you are feeling now, but the difference is that you may start to se something weird and ask, Hey what the hell happend, and then you will realise that you are dreaming."

Or just tell them to watch The Matrix :D

They already watched the Matrix and Inception (brilliant film btw) and still don't care. You would think they would at least look it up. Maybe I should give them another shot, I mean jesus christ, who the hell turns down a free world full of endless possibilities that you can eventually visit everynight for what may seem like hours and still wake up like you slept through the night?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Avalanche

They already watched the Matrix and Inception (brilliant film btw) and still don't care. You would think they would at least look it up. Maybe I should give them another shot, I mean jesus christ, who the hell turns down a free world full of endless possibilities that you can eventually visit everynight for what may seem like hours and still wake up like you slept through the night?

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Some people are just not ready for other worldly experiences. And some just don't dare to question their reality.

Well last night I tried the WBTB again and the technique... but it didn't work. I just sat on my bed for an hour and tried to clear my thoughts, but it was very hard. Then when I went to bed my mind was just filled with random crap that I didn't think I would be able to do it. So I had a little daydream thing like before but it just ended before I could do anything. Then I feel asleep and had some dreams.

I forgot to go over the technique again before bed so I wasn't very confident in being able to repeat the double nearly success from 2 nights ago. But today I got a lot of homework, I'm going to do most of it now and leave the rest for my WBTB. I really think occupying my mind with maths problems really woke me up more than just sitting and thinking.

I just want to say to all people in this project that Dream Journal isn't neccessary, the important thing is to learn how the different states feels like when you are awake or dream. But a Dream Journal is a good way to learn that.
So do what ever technique you want MILD, DILD, WILD, DEILD etc. But on every morning try to remember your dreams, don't focus on the details of what you saw or so on (you can do that if you want) but instead stand up close your eyes and try to imagine that you are dreaming the same dream again and really try to feel the same sensations as you did when you dreamt it.

I think this exercise will help you become more aware of your dreams and the "feeling" of dreaming.

last week I havent been thinking about awareness and lucid dreaming (too busy, not enough sleep) and I got a lucid :D
I have had this before, that I stopped trying to LD and then succeeded. maybe it is a sign that when I'm trying, I'm trying too hard.
I will be picking up awareness and DILD/MILD again, but this time not eagerly stressing for LD's, but with a more relaxed knowledge that they will come.

about the difference between reality and the dream world... I am still thinking about it and trying to put in the words. I also want to verify a few ideas in a next lucid dream and then I will write down my experiences and thoughts about this topic.