Idea with negations.

Last night, when I was trying something with mantras, I got an idea.
I've read on DV that your subconscious ignores negations and that, when you say your mantra you must believe it. ( http://www.dreamviews.com/f12/naiyas...hnique-119050/ look at autosuggestion )

My idea is :
If I say "I will lucid dream tonight." and don't believe it , it won't work ,
but if I say "I will NOT lucid dream tonight" and I believe it (due the negation) , the subconscious will ignore the negation and read "I will lucid dream tonight." so I'll lucid dream that night.

Has anyone already tried this ? Will this work ?
Discuss.

Interesting point, why not try it out and let us know how it goes.

I'm confused . Oh wait, I am not confused (get it?) :panic:

This sounds interesting.... :O

Last night I was too tired to try it, but I think that I can try it this night.
I'll post the results, in case of faillure : I'll keep on trying.
If it works, then we need a name for this technique, something like NILD : Negation Induced Lucid Dream. I'll find a name if it works.

To me, telling myself "I will be lucid tonight" boosts my confidence, and that is what I believe really counts. No confidence, no dreams. That is how it usually works. So I don't really like your proposal.

I'm not sure any mantra will really do much for the unconscious mind. It'll help plant an idea in your head, that is for sure. But mantras are a bit of mind trickery in themselves, getting technical with them seems like it'd end in a bizarre mess. Do we have any evidence for what Naiya is saying?

Also let it be known that the subconscious isn't literally a secondary mind that you can't control, its just a phrase with multiple meanings. I worry that DV as a whole is passing off the "subconscious" as something that its not.

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Originally Posted by Loaf

To me, telling myself "I will be lucid tonight" boosts my confidence, and that is what I believe really counts. No confidence, no dreams. That is how it usually works. So I don't really like your proposal.

I'm not sure any mantra will really do much for the unconscious mind. It'll help plant an idea in your head, that is for sure. But mantras are a bit of mind trickery in themselves, getting technical with them seems like it'd end in a bizarre mess. Do we have any evidence for what Naiya is saying?

Also let it be known that the subconscious isn't literally a secondary mind that you can't control, its just a phrase with multiple meanings. I worry that DV as a whole is passing off the "subconscious" as something that its not.

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Well , we can at least try it. If a positive sentence works for you, it's allright. But some people (like me) have trouble believing in the positive sentence. There is no real proof of the negation thing but take a look at these links :
The Subconscious Mind Cannot understand Negatives
Avoid Using Negative Words in a Subliminal Message Script
There are even more of these links...

So, in my opinion we should at least be open minded and try it.

The bad thing about this is that you believe that you are not going to lucid dream. If you don't believe you can, there is no technique in the world that will make you LD. You are the best LDer in the world, nothing can stop you from getting kickass supervivid LD's! Don't forget that the mentra itself is pointless if you don't believe it. With this technique, you will most likely implant the mantra, but it won't take effect because your brain doesn't believe it. It's like sending a clear message that can't come through instead of sending a message that is a bit blurry that is sure to come through.

I have to add to this that if sending a negative message to your brain gives you confidence in your ability to LD, it might just work. So, if you want to try it out, pleas let us know how it goes. Good luck!

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Originally Posted by Spyguy

The bad thing about this is that you believe that you are not going to lucid dream. If you don't believe you can, there is no technique in the world that will make you LD. You are the best LDer in the world, nothing can stop you from getting kickass supervivid LD's! Don't forget that the mentra itself is pointless if you don't believe it. With this technique, you will most likely implant the mantra, but it won't take effect because your brain doesn't believe it. It's like sending a clear message that can't come through instead of sending a message that is a bit blurry that is sure to come through.

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True , but at the other side , the subcon. removes the negation so the sentence is positive.
So you believe the negative sentence, but the subcon. ignores the negation so the negative sentence that you believe becomes a positive sentence that you believe when it arives in you subcon.
It's a pure brainrape , I know , but I'm going to test this technique.
Maybe it works for only a couple of people , but the goal is to get lucid , so if this techinque only works with me , it would also be a victory.
/brainrape

Lol, total brainrape, will be interesting to see the results!

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Originally Posted by faceonmars

i'm confused . Oh wait, i am not confused (get it?) :panic:

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haha! Lol!!

This is just total mindfuck xD Both the working and the not working of this make total sense. It is like 'what came first: the chicken or the egg?' Ofcourse, neither came first because the chicken developed itself from microscopic sea creatures. But that's a different story alltogether. The only way to find out if this works or not is to try it out :P

First try : a blurry dream, missed a chance to get lucid.
I'll give it another try tonight.

I find the normal one to not work with me, so I'll give this negation thing a try tonight :) I'll let you know in the morning.

It probably would work (if the brain doesn't take negations into account), but does it really matter? It makes no difference but wasting your energy to say another word. It's just reduntant to do it.