Need help with stopping of dreaming of attaining luciidity

I have to admit I am frustrated with this. When I was a 12 and into this stuff, I had no problem becoming lucid (had no idea that word existed) and dream control. Now for some reason it is harder.

I did what a book told me long time ago about getting very close to your subconscious and expressing your goals. I did this through WILD. I can do WILD with all the jazz but can never walk directly into a dream with it. So I decided to use it to actually get to know me more and get in touch with my deeper, inner self.

I told my subconscious, through those chants everyone talks about--"I will become very aware in my dreams. I will have clear lucidity. I will have dream control." I was focusing so much on it. I then pondered--if I can have that control in my daydreams then I can have that control in my dreams. I will not quit. I will do this.

That night (which was last night) I had a very strange, involved dream. I saw it reflecting some the day. I saw a merry-go-round and me in the dream overcoming my fear of riding it and feeling good that I did not quit...sounding familiar :?

Then I saw my dream guide (Nina who welcomed me to the board). She was delivering me a message and I told her "You came into my dream to tell me this." I was aware that I was dreaming!! NOT. I was dreaming that I was lucid. In fact, this appears to be the third time now. In my dream, I then gained controlled of it that is I DREAMT that I had dream control. And locked Nina in a box. I then went on a rampage. "I will have power in my dreams. I will have control. Just like I do with my daydreams." Sounds familiar? *smacks forehead* I then went blowing things up, causing fires, and casting cool magic. I heard Nina in the box say--"I can't control this. This isn't my dream." And she smiled.

I know my dream has significance in that it is showing me that I am indeed obsessed with trying all of this out and wanting to achieve yet not one stinkin minute did I do a reality check. My mind was oblivious to it all just flowing with the dream. Apparently, my subconsious heard what I was chanting and it was reflected yet no action of the chants took true form. Can anyone help me?

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Originally posted by Dew Dust


I then went on a rampage. \"I will have power in my dreams. I will have control. Just like I do with my daydreams.\" Sounds familiar? *smacks forehead* I then went blowing things up, causing fires, and casting cool magic. I heard Nina in the box say--\"I can't control this. This isn't my dream.\" And she smiled.

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Nina once popped into one of my Dreams with some words of advice. It is a wonder that she can get any sleep.

Anyway, you will always have a conflict with your Subconscious Mind while you are trying to completely override and destroy all of its independence and creativity. Do you know how they are always saying that 'we only use 10% of our brains'. Well, the reason this is true is because we are fixated on confining ourselves only to the most Conscious and Surface of thoughts and mental operations. Your Attitude is the Perfect Example of this Self Limitation. YOU want total control, and to achieve it you would entirely stamp out the rest of your Mind. You could hardly expect that your Mind -- the 90% of it that isn't involved in the Grandiose Delusions of your Conscious Persona -- that your Mind would appreciate your Self Destructive impulses and your attack on Dream Contend and the ordinary Dream Dynamics.

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YOU want total control, and to achieve it you would entirely stamp out the rest of your Mind. You could hardly expect that your Mind -- the 90% of it that isn't involved in the Grandiose Delusions of your Conscious Persona -- that your Mind would appreciate your Self Destructive impulses and your attack on Dream Contend and the ordinary Dream Dynamics.[/b]

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I have read a post of yours on the Newbie forum and how dreaming should really just be viewed as 'real' that is go with the flow of it and let it be. While LD is a premlinary exercise. I must admit I was intrigued with that thought. According to science, everything in the universe prefers to use less energy. And I notice when I try to become lucid and aware, it requires a great deal of energy then just simply letting the "ordinary Dream Dynamics" take place.

I must admit again, I like your view on trying not to become an enemy of your own mind. But should I treat my subconscious and conscious as two different identities or is it really one?

I want to achieve lucidity to get to know more of myself. To get in touch with that deeper self--spirituality. I don't see how it is self destructive to gain control of a dream and explore the purpose of me and making myself a better person. Otherwise, this has all been fruitless and the concept of dream control and lucidity is in essence a sin against my own mind and being. And the main reason why I was so hard on myself in saying that "I will have control in my dreams" was to make myself confident and follow Yoda's advice -- don't try...do!

Now how would one stamp out the rest of the mind? I honestly don't want to do that. So basically I don't want to be an 'enemy' of my subconscious. How would you suppose then that I go about in doing this the correct way? How did you do it in your life?

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Originally posted by Dew Dust


But should I treat my subconscious and conscious as two different identities or is it really one?

I want to achieve lucidity to get to know more of myself. To get in touch with that deeper self--spirituality. I don't see how it is self destructive to gain control of a dream and explore the purpose of me and making myself a better person.

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Well, there is a differentiation between the Conscious Mind and the Subconscious Mind because there seems to be a concensus that they ARE distinct. It reminds me of a passage in one of the old Raymond Chandler detective books -- one of the characters wondered that anybody could ever commit incest, and Chandler's detective, Phillip Marlowe, replies 'yes, or they wouldn't have a work for it'. We have a word for the Subconscious Mind.

And we know that the Subconscious Mind, in this instance, though, I would refer to it as the Dreaming Mind, that it is at odds with the Conscious Persona Mind because of the deliberate tactics the Dreaming Mind takes to shake off the Lucid Dreamers attempts at control. The most used strategy is for the Dreaming Mind to impose what are called False Awakenings, in which by fooling the Dreamer into supposing that he was awakened, the dreamer will no longer suspect that he is 'dreaming' and will thus give up on the assertion of all of his control. The Dreamer might then be lulled back into ordinary dreaming. False Awakenings are extremely common. You will even find quite a few 'techniques' given on this Page for defeating the Dreaming Mind's False Awakenings. The Dreaming Mind is considered quite the enemy and every effort and option is examined or utilized in order to assure its defeat.

It indeed troubles me that it seems that in many cases some of our Dreamers have succeeded in irradicating the Dreaming Mind. They have driven the Subconscious Mind off the field and when they dream, they seem to descend into a large Blank Canvass which they are left to fill in with their own limited imaginations. No longer 100% of their Mind working in partnership, but a mere 5 or 10% playing with itself, talking to itself, stagnating with itself. But they have TOTAL CONTROL. Total Control of what amounts to an empty self-contained, self-constrained Universe. It must be fun for awhile, but after a certain time all that is left is not even a "Been There, Done That" Tee Shirt.

Where, if one retains the Dream Mind, suffering its influences, messages, comments, and even its interferences, then one is on his or her way to Integration with the Total Self -- the Total Mind.

Also, because we have found that dreams are indeed shared, Dreams are not to be considered entirely personal -- the Material in Dreams has been demonstrated, in many instances, to come from OUTSIDE the individual Self. The Great Psychologist and Intellectual, Carl Jung, supposed that such phenomena suggested the existence of a Collective Consciousness. Our connection to Spirituality is through this Collective Consciousness. Our Dreaming Mind may not just be simply personal, but may be part of an Intelligence that Transcends and Subsumes our own. But over-exerting Lucid Control we, in effect, dismiss and veto this Higher Influence.

What you say is an interesting theory. And it sounds like you have done much research into this. The idea of false awakens is also fascinating.

I must ask then--how is Lucidity a premlinary exercise? I assume you were one time into lucidity and learned all of this stuff behind it as you researched. Do you personally still attempt lucidity? I am just asking out of curiousity.

By the way, I am also curious as to your avatar *raises eyebrow*
Is that Erasmus or Sir Thomas More?