Lucidity timing and RCs

The only way I've ever become lucid is spontaneous. A few other times that were different happened because I fell asleep without realizing it and kept thinking that the room was still mine, so I realized that I was already asleep by noticing the weirdness around.

That led me to some conclusions about lucid dreams that aren't necessarily correct, they just conform to my experience. I believed for years that all methods to induce lucid dreams are sort of fake, because you become lucid first, and then you use them. I.e. first you realize you're dreaming, and that leads to remembering that you were going to do an RC during sleep...

So I wanted to check my own assumptions.

Reality check users, please, tell me, when you do a reality check in your dream, do you already know you're in a dream, or is it a genuinely non-lucid dream? It just shocks me to think that somebody could remember to do an RC in a dream that wasn't lucid. I can't imagine that. How else would you remember to do it, if you didn't realize that it's a dream first. Ok, you may have it accidentally happen once a year, but people use RCs all the time.

P.S. By spontaneous I don't mean "out of the blue". You decide to be lucid and then it happens at night. Like a direct order to yourself. If don't decide that it should happen, it won't happen.

To be honest, I rarely become lucid through reality checks. Most of the time, I become lucid spontaneously too. I can just sort of tell by the "dream atmosphere". But there have been some times, especially when I first started, where I would RC out of nowhere during a nonlucid. That was most probably because of the habit of RCing all the time in waking life. But those seldom happen anymore.

Now, I RC after I become lucid. I think it is awareness that gets you lucid. You may not actively notice it, but you just know there's something odd about the scene. And then you get lucid. That is when I do the reality checks to make sure and double check.

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Originally Posted by paigeyemps

But there have been some times, especially when I first started, where I would RC out of nowhere during a nonlucid. That was most probably because of the habit of RCing all the time in waking life. But those seldom happen anymore.

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Thank you. Such a thing (remembering to do something in a non-lucid dream) happened to me only once in a lifetime, and it wasn't even remembering per se, I just dreamt about doing it. So I wasn't sure it was possible to bring it on. I'm still a bit shocked that it's possible.

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Originally Posted by paigeyemps

You may not actively notice it, but you just know there's something odd about the scene. And then you get lucid.

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Do you really feel like there's something weird and have doubts about its realness, or do you already know that it's all a dream (knowledge suddenly coming out of nowhere) and only look around to make sure?

Awareness in the dream is necessary for the reality check to work.

When I am in a vivid dream very aware I feel lost and start to wonder what is going on, but since I have a habit to do a reality check when I get that strange thought, I do the reality check to see if I am dreaming. Awareness -> Reality Check -> Lucidity. So I understand what you mean when you say that one is lucid before one do the reality check, but remember that one can be aware in a dream without realizing that one is dreaming. So the reality check is just as it's name suggest a check of your reality, but of course you need to suspect the reality first :)

An easy example: Imagine that you were dreaming right now! You are still aware of yourself and your reality, but you are not aware of the fact that you are dreaming.

But it is possible of course to become lucid within the dream without doing a reality check, sometimes the "feeling" of dreaming itself makes me lucid.

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Originally Posted by Intfere

Do you really feel like there's something weird and have doubts about its realness, or do you already know that it's all a dream (knowledge suddenly coming out of nowhere) and only look around to make sure?

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To me, it seems like I somehow know it's a dream already, but my logic isn't quite there yet. I would suspect things but the greater part of me would shrug it off most times. I need to get that extra push to fully understand that "oh wait, this is actually a dream!"

In most situations I tend to realise I'm dreaming without an RC. I do however look out for my 'dreamsigns', etc.
I think an RC is very useful for an FA situation. I tend to practice one (nose-pinch) immediately upon awakening, or if I'm in my Bedroom, etc.

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Originally Posted by UToo

I think an RC is very useful for an FA situation. I tend to practice one (nose-pinch) immediately upon awakening, or if I'm in my Bedroom, etc.

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I agree! I RC everytime I wake up as well, no matter where I am. It really helps catch those pesky false awakenings :3

I think it's a good idea to RC right after waking up, I had some lucids this way although I don't remember to do it so often as I would like to.

On the other hand, I cannot remember a non-lucid where I randomly RC'ed without having the suspicion first. Actually, one of the few times I RC'ed during a non-lucid without thinking about it, I was telling a DC the way how he should RC, then I was kind of shocked when I realized that it was a dream due to I didn't suspect it at all. Otherwise, I think if I RC'ed without suspecting that it was a dream, most probably I fell into the false conclusion that I was not dreaming or, as I can remember now, I didn't know how to react because of I was 100% sure I was not dreaming...

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Originally Posted by Box77

Actually, one of the few times I RC'ed during a non-lucid without thinking about it, I was telling a DC the way how he should RC

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LOL! :lol: i find that really amusing for some reason x)

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Originally Posted by paigeyemps

LOL! :lol: i find that really amusing for some reason x)

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You can imagine my surprise... most funny for me is to remember the DC's face expression of "Oops, something is not right here..."

I should've created a poll...

So far it sounds like although it's possible to RC in a non-lucid dream, people do it by accident and not on purpose. So it's not really a conscious action you remembered about and performed. But if you get lucid first, you remember about it and perform it.

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Originally Posted by Intfere

I should've created a poll...

So far it sounds like although it's possible to RC in a non-lucid dream, people do it by accident and not on purpose. So it's not really a conscious action you remembered about and performed. But if you get lucid first, you remember about it and perform it.

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When I RC, I thought something like "wait a minute, perhaps it is a dream..." then RC. I think it's possible to perform a RC as an habit, but I think it most probably will go unnoticed if it's not matched with previous thoughts of its possible results.

I have never decided to RC consciouslly in regular dream. I RC only after I realize, and that happens most of the time after I say something like "am I dreaming?"

They all happen almost at the same time, so it's kinda hard to say, which comes first, but when I look back at my times of becoming lucid, its:

1. question
2. realization
3. confirmation

What do you all think is responsible for the initial "question"?

I can assure you that there are methods to induce lucid dreams that work... for me. Not all methods work for all people. The secret is finding out what works ... for you. Concerning RC's : I don't always do a reality check to become lucid. However, I occasionally will do one that makes me lucid post haste. Most times it is what I call a gravity check as , I have found, dream gravity is more like what you would expect on the moon. So I jump... and usually end up on a roof or a light pole. More often then not, however, I become lucid due to the strange dreamscape. Something in my big brain tells me ' This is not right... this must be a dream' and off I go.

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Originally Posted by Intfere

What do you all think is responsible for the initial "question"?

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I'll try again. Just realized the sentence could be misunderstood. :)

It's not my own question in the thead I was asking about, haha, but a "question" that people describe as a state of pre-lucidity. A sort of realization that you're dreaming, which is later followed by certainty.

So I'm asking: if that's the initial state we get into and everything else (like RCs) is props, then what is it that causes this initial "questioning" to happen?

Not RCs per se, or other methods for sure, then what? Is it sort of hypnotism of the self, a command to remember about being asleep during sleep?

If you are asking about becoming lucid via DILD most of it , for me, is the desire to become lucid. That desire becomes ingrained with my sub-consciousness.

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Originally Posted by Intfere

... what is it that causes this initial "questioning" to happen?

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It's the daytime awareness training.

You questioning your reality. Asking yourself "how did I get here, what did I do just before this?"
Asking yourself "is this a dream?" and trully believing that it is with lots of emotions. Like "holly smokes, what if this is a dream and I can just fly out the window" and feel the butterflies in your stomach, like you feel when very excited about something.

I may be a minority opinion, but I have had several LDs where I did an RC not thinking I was dreaming. I was so surprised I kept doing it over and over because I thought I MUST be awake! This isnt often, granted, but there was no thought at the time that 'maybe' I am dreaming.

Rothgar it's not a minority opinion ;) You were aware of the situation at this time, perhaps not suspecting it was a dream but you were aware enough.

All the posts above is just a way to make sure that the awareness increases and the reality check is a great tool for that process.
And this together increases the chances of you being aware enough to notice the reality check.

Edit: I realized that I thought this was another thread.

http://www.dreamviews.com/f12/realit...ntless-137232/

Anyway this might help you.

Awareness is knowledge, you attain knowledge by questions, sometimes the dream answers your questions, but since your dreambody is a part of the dream you can do a reality check to get an answer.

The reality check only answers one of the questions (Am I dreaming?)
Finding the answers to the rest of your questions depends on where you direct your awareness.

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Originally Posted by Rothgar

I may be a minority opinion, but I have had several LDs where I did an RC not thinking I was dreaming. I was so surprised I kept doing it over and over because I thought I MUST be awake! This isnt often, granted, but there was no thought at the time that 'maybe' I am dreaming.

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Did you eventually become lucid after RCing in those LDs?


Mastermind, I think we should give every theory the benefit of the doubt. :)

Sometimes I fell asleep without noticing that I did, still in consciousness. Imagine the surprise that you can experience when you're in bed and sure that you're still awake, and then something would suddenly happen that couldn't happen in the waken world. Like a person that was not in your house would suddenly walk into your room.

I consider this a separate case, because it's about falling asleep without noticing it and without losing the thread of consciousness, but it doesn't mean we know everything and can categorize everything. This categorization might be dead wrong.

But still I believe it's better to listen to any cases that don't fit in, rather than try to comb everything to match one theory. Cases that don't fit in can prove the whole theory to be wrong!

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Originally Posted by Rothgar

I may be a minority opinion, but I have had several LDs where I did an RC not thinking I was dreaming. I was so surprised I kept doing it over and over because I thought I MUST be awake! This isnt often, granted, but there was no thought at the time that 'maybe' I am dreaming.

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Are you saying, that you do RC just out of the blue and it gets you lucid? Or, that you are sure you are awake, but you RC anyway just in case?

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Originally Posted by MasterMind

Rothgar it's not a minority opinion ;) You were aware of the situation at this time, perhaps not suspecting it was a dream but you were aware enough.

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I agree.

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Originally Posted by Intfere

Mastermind, I think we should give every theory the benefit of the doubt. :)

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If I should pick one person on this forum who gives benefit of the doubt to every theory, it would be Mastermind.