Looking for 2nd Lucid, changed from DILD to WILD, questions...

Okay, I know this is going to get kind of long but I have a bunch of questions. Even if you can only help with 1 or 2 questions, thank you.

My Backround
Dream Journal - Yes, (and it’s so much fun to read!)
Dream Recall - Excellent (wake up after almost every REM cycle)
Reality Checks - At least 2/hour throughout the day
1st Lucid - About 3 weeks in, for about 10 seconds
2nd Lucid - Not Yet, it’s been 3 weeks since the 1st

So my main learning tools doing this have been LaBerge’s “Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming” and this website. For the 2 months I’ve been at it, I’ve stuck with DILDs/MILDs; In dream reality checks coupled with some self affirmation & mantra type stuff. I’ve also been trying to practice mindfullness and meditation as much as a busy life allows. The problem is that my mind seems to work against my reality checks. My ability to read text in dreams (I’ve even read the words lucid dream and not made the connection) has become insanely accurate and words don’t seem to change. I can’t pinpoint dream signs because my dreams contain no consistency that I can see. And I haven’t dreamed about the same person, place, thing, or action more than a couple times in the two months. Basically, I just fail to recognize reality checks and dream signs once I’m in a dream. It’s been getting frustrating which I know is also counter-productive.

So I decided to try and switch things up by attempting to WILD. My first few attempts were horrid and I fell into every rookie trap there is. This afternoon I had a couple hours to take a nap. I knew I wouldn’t get to far so I tried a different approach. The one time I was lucid, I woke up on my stomach, my most comfortable sleep posistion. I tried it. I also ignored trying to resist “roll over signals”. If I had to swallow, I swallowed. If I had an itch, I scratched it. I ignored the normal advice to keep perfectly still. The only thing I did different from my normal mantra was to intensify it and I increased the “volume” in my head when I felt the onset of sleep. It took some insane concentration and I went almost an hour without much happening other than laying awake. But I didn’t get discouraged, I knew I wasn’t going to get too far anyway so what was another hour.

A couple minutes later, I start to lose feeling in my arms. I focus on my breath, which has become incredibly loud. Then, without warning, my head starts shaking. At first, I thought I was getting tense so I focused on relaxing my neck, but it was already relaxed! AWESOME! I would twitch a bit and the vibration would slow but it came right back and lasted about 5 minutes. Suddenly, as quick as it started, it ended, and I could barely even hear myself breathing. It was weird because I think my body fell asleep but I felt wide awake with all my senses intact. Assuming I succeeded, I tried to focus on the faded colors and shapes in front of my closed eyes but I had trouble seeing images. I can only assume I was on the wrong side of my sleep cycle and too well rested to form true dream visions. Although, when I was able to focus, I could feel my senses begin to dullen. Then my right arm started to hurt from being slightly out of my typical posistion and I knew my nap time was almost over so I tried moving it slowly to see what would happen. It seemed like I stayed asleep but I don’t think I was anywhere near my REM cycle so stopping didn’t upset me. Then I think I woke my body up and it did kind of feel like I do when I wake up after normal sleep.

Thanks for reading if you made it this far; my questions;
1. Was I accurate in describing what was happening during my WILD attempt? Did anything sound like I was describing something different from my perceptions?
2. Did my assesment of being on the wrong side of my sleep cycle or being too well rested sound legitimate?
3. If I absolutely have to move, like when I moved my arm, if I keep it slow and methodical, could I keep my body asleep or is this waking myself up?
4. If I was in the right part of my sleep cycle, is the next step to just continue my focus on the mental images?
5. Should I divert my attention fully to WILD or should I keep some focus on my DILD attempts?



-Kevin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kevinmwhm

The problem is that my mind seems to work against my reality checks. My ability to read text in dreams (I’ve even read the words lucid dream and not made the connection) has become insanely accurate and words don’t seem to change. I can’t pinpoint dream signs because my dreams contain no consistency that I can see. And I haven’t dreamed about the same person, place, thing, or action more than a couple times in the two months. Basically, I just fail to recognize reality checks and dream signs once I’m in a dream. It’s been getting frustrating which I know is also counter-productive.

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1. Reading as a RC is not very reliable one. As you found out yourself, some can read better than others. Here is a list of reliable RCs - Collection of... DILD
And you should practice more than one RC, just in case one gives false results.

2. Second possible issue that I see is that you relying on RCs to get you lucid. What gets you lucid, or gives you a feeling that you may be in a dream is a daytime awareness question "Am I dreaming". If you put emotions into it during day and you really, even if just for a moment believe that you could be in a dream, than this feeling and question will start happening in your regular dreams. It will give you a hint of awareness and you either become aware, or do a RC to test and confirm that you are. More details about this in the above linked article.

3. You don't have to have dream signs. It's good to RC at random times, so this also hapens in your dreams at random and you don't have to wait for a dream sign or something else to show up.

So if you already had some DILDs, if you add some awareness training to it, I'm sure you will have more success.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kevinmwhm

I also ignored trying to resist “roll over signals”. If I had to swallow, I swallowed. If I had an itch, I scratched it. I ignored the normal advice to keep perfectly still. The only thing I did different from my normal mantra was to intensify it and I increased the “volume” in my head when I felt the onset of sleep. It took some insane concentration and I went almost an hour without much happening other than laying awake.

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1. There used to be a notion to stay still, don't swallow and all that. Not any more. Also the rollover signal is just one of the possible methods. Here is an excellent WILD (sageous) tutorial that allows moving, scratching and all that. It's explained in great detail.

2. If you concentrate too much on anything during attempt, it may not work. The end goal is actually falling asleep. The art is to fall asleep while still keeping awareness. It's a delicate ballancing act and if you learn to fall asleep, wake up and regain awareness of your goal and fall asleep again, next time you fall asleep you could stay lucid.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kevinmwhm

A couple minutes later, I start to lose feeling in my arms. I focus on my breath, which has become incredibly loud. Then, without warning, my head starts shaking. At first, I thought I was getting tense so I focused on relaxing my neck, but it was already relaxed! AWESOME! I would twitch a bit and the vibration would slow but it came right back and lasted about 5 minutes. Suddenly, as quick as it started, it ended, and I could barely even hear myself breathing. It was weird because I think my body fell asleep but I felt wide awake with all my senses intact. Assuming I succeeded, I tried to focus on the faded colors and shapes in front of my closed eyes but I had trouble seeing images. I can only assume I was on the wrong side of my sleep cycle and too well rested to form true dream visions. Although, when I was able to focus, I could feel my senses begin to dullen. Then my right arm started to hurt from being slightly out of my typical posistion and I knew my nap time was almost over so I tried moving it slowly to see what would happen. It seemed like I stayed asleep but I don’t think I was anywhere near my REM cycle so stopping didn’t upset me. Then I think I woke my body up and it did kind of feel like I do when I wake up after normal sleep.

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1. I think when the vibrations stoped and you thought your body was asleep, you were in a lucid dream already. Next time try to do a motionless RC "If this was a dream, I would hover". Pay attention if you see your room at this point. It happens often but you think you are still awake and that's why you are seeing your room.

When you see your room, or even just darkness, try to get up. As you would get up from a bed normally. You may surprise yourself when you realize you are in a dream. or try to roll out. If you don't see anything, try to trick yourself and say "I can see my room". It may come into view. This is one of my mantras as I get closer to falling asleep "When I see my room, I get up." This reminds me to get up, because by the time you see your room, you are already asleep and this idea may slip your mind. Here is more about different ways of entering a WILD, based on if you see your room, if you see a dream, or have vibrations or other sensations. Sensations and types of entry into WILD.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kevinmwhm

1. Was I accurate in describing what was happening during my WILD attempt? Did anything sound like I was describing something different from my perceptions?
2. Did my assesment of being on the wrong side of my sleep cycle or being too well rested sound legitimate?
3. If I absolutely have to move, like when I moved my arm, if I keep it slow and methodical, could I keep my body asleep or is this waking myself up?
4. If I was in the right part of my sleep cycle, is the next step to just continue my focus on the mental images?
5. Should I divert my attention fully to WILD or should I keep some focus on my DILD attempts?

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1. Yes, it was WILDing.
2. During nap, you should go straight to REM. I have best sucess with naps that are no later than 3 hours after I wake up in the morning. But I did have a WILD later on as well.
3. That's the best way to move. It's even beter, if you don't think about it at all. Just as if you were going to sleep normally. We usually barely notice when we scratch or move or swallow, because it doesn't bother us then. If it doesn't bother you during WILDing, it will not mess up your attempt. It may set you back a few minutes, but that's all.
4. You don't always get the images that evolve into dreams that you can enter. Sometimes yu get only vibrations, or only feeling of flying at incredible speed, or falling through mattress. So if you wait for something specific to happen, you may miss your chance at lucid if that something doesn't happen. More in the article above Sensations...
5. The beauty of these LDs is, that they happen at different times. I practice for DILDs, take a nap for a WILD and wait for a DEILD, that can happen from either LDing method.
So keep practicing for all, they are not mutually exclusive. Especially, since you already have DILDing experience.
DEILD (dutchraptor)

Happy dreams and keep me posted how it goes:alien: