An interesting realization

Hey there, just want to share something that's been creeping in the back of my mind for a few weeks and finally revealed itself today.

I've been trying lucid dreaming for about 5 months, and have managed to fail miserably. I have 3-6 lucids a week and this morning I had four. The problem is that I tend to wake up when I nose-pinch(and nose pinch is the only "RC" I tend to do). At first, many months ago that was because the shock of becoming lucid was waking me. But now, it's that I've associated nose-pinch with waking up subconsciously. I realized this morning that almost every single lucid I've had in recent memory, and subsequently woken from, was ended by me doing a nose pinch RC.

I would have seen this sooner if I had also realized that I no longer get the "shock" of becoming lucid. The moment I ask myself "What's going on, is this a dream?" I am lucid. I simply need to stabilize from there, not perform an RC. Asking the question is the RC. I kept doing the nose pinch so steadfastly because it gave me the shock I had come to expect, but that shock was actually the sensation of waking up, not of becoming lucid.

I honestly feel like I am proficient at lucid dreaming and if I stop relying on "reality checks" as a physical action, I will be able to experience lucidity in earnest. I know plenty of people use these types of RC to great effect. But I don't think it's necessary. And for me it doesn't seem to be helpful in achieving my goals.


Little example dream from this morning in case you care to read it:
I am sitting at my computer desk, with my cat on my lap, petting him. I'm talking with my brother, and my cat jumps off my lap. As I look up from my cat to my brother, I see a different, unfamiliar cat on my desk. I start petting him and asking "Who's this guy?" in a voice you would talk to a cat with. I'm sitting there petting this cat trying to figure out who it is, when I calmly and without any sensation, become lucid. (Though I didn't know I was lucid... if you can wrap your head around that.) Thinking that I'm still just on the verge of becoming lucid, I stand up and think "Holy shit I'm dreaming." then perform a nosepinch to confirm it. I wake up.

The dream was completely stable and I didn't feel like I was about to wake up in any way. The instant I performed the nose pinch RC, I was awake. I'm sure all the stuff I'm talking about is basic knowledge for you experienced dreamers, but I'm writing this to provide some small help to anyone with a problem like mine. I wouldn't even be writing this if it wasn't such an odd situation to me. Normally I'm very aware and attempt to see things from every perspective, and every layer of possibility that I know of. I really should have seen the connection between my nose pinch and waking up long ago.

Anyway, enjoy. I'll let you know tomorrow morning or perhaps the next day, whether or not I'm spewing garbage, or my thoughts are actually correct.

ya we build a strong association between RC and excitement.

I can relate to this.

So now you have to train yourself not to nosepinch, right ? do you think is dificult ?

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Originally Posted by VagalTone

ya we build a strong association between RC and excitement.

I can relate to this.

So now you have to train yourself not to nosepinch, right ? do you think is dificult ?

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I am in the habit of some bastardized version of what I think is ADA. I kind of just do whatever feels right, but I always use a nosepinch to confirm my conclusion of whether or not I'm dreaming. I don't think I'll have any trouble adjusting in waking life. But in dreams? Who knows. I don't really have a routine I follow for DILDs, so it's not like I nose pinch on an instinct. Shouldn't be hard to stop doing it.

If you don't want to nosepinch in your dreams, practice different RC during day. That should reprogram you. I think what happened is that you woke up once or twice after nosepinch and now you believe, even if only subconsiously, that you will wake up when you nosepinch.

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Originally Posted by gab

If you don't want to nosepinch in your dreams, practice different RC during day. That should reprogram you. I think what happened is that you woke up once or twice after nosepinch and now you believe, even if only subconsiously, that you will wake up when you nosepinch.

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Yup. Before I try any other RC's though, I gonna try not using any, but instead rely on my awareness, as I had already been doing. I was becoming lucid due to awareness, but I didn't know I was waking myself up when I nose pinched. If I become lucid, forego the confirmation RC, and cut straight to stabilizing, I think I'll have much better luck. Because now I know that I don't need to expect any particular feeling or sensation when I become lucid. I only did the nosepinch because I was searching for that sensation to tell me that I was actually dreaming.

Reality checks should not be used just as physical action, but they should be used to focus on awareness at that moment, but as gab said it seems you have subconsciously linked that RC to waking up. Try using a different RC in waking life, i personally recommend the 'looking on hands' one, and it will change in dreams. :zzz:
Edit: Huh, late post is late, i still would suggest doing an RC of some kind when waking up though, just in case of false awakenings. :)

Good luck! I RC like 1/10 dreams. It never had a negative effect on me, but it was quite useless. If I think it might be a dream, then I just stop myself and do something awesome and not dangerous (fire in my hands, teleport, etc.) Then I know 100%. Most times I realize it and see RDC, other DCs I see a lot, or am at a common dream place.

Well all day yesterday I successfully avoided using the nose-pinch RC. In my dreams I also avoided it, but instead I used the look at hands RC. This woke me up too :( I had intended to not use any RC, but it seems I forgot that in my dreams. Though in the look at hand RC's defense, I was in a FA when I did it, and it was almost pitch black with no stability. That's the specific instance I remember, but I feel like I also did it in another dream that I can't recall. I'm going to try again to not use any of the normal RC's, and just rely on awareness.

In case anyone is curious, this is how I RC: During the day I attempt to maintain awareness. If I lose my awareness, I will notice after a few moments and ask myself if I'm dreaming, think back in time a few minutes, and look around at anything that may be strange. I'll attempt to stabilize my surroundings even if I'm awake, so that hopefully in a dream I will be stabilized and less likely to wake up when I go lucid. I'll maintain this awareness as long as possible, and repeat the process if I lose it.

I think that's ADA, but I haven't really read that much about it. And it works for me, so whatever. (Or at least it gets me lucid, even if only for a second or two)

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Originally Posted by Sambrosia

In case anyone is curious, this is how I RC: During the day I attempt to maintain awareness. If I lose my awareness, I will notice after a few moments and ask myself if I'm dreaming, think back in time a few minutes, and look around at anything that may be strange. I'll attempt to stabilize my surroundings even if I'm awake, so that hopefully in a dream I will be stabilized and less likely to wake up when I go lucid. I'll maintain this awareness as long as possible, and repeat the process if I lose it.

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This looks interesting. it seems a creative and critical style of ADA. how long have you been doing this ?

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Originally Posted by Sambrosia

Well all day yesterday I successfully avoided using the nose-pinch RC. In my dreams I also avoided it, but instead I used the look at hands RC. This woke me up too :( I had intended to not use any RC, but it seems I forgot that in my dreams. Though in the look at hand RC's defense, I was in a FA when I did it, and it was almost pitch black with no stability. That's the specific instance I remember, but I feel like I also did it in another dream that I can't recall. I'm going to try again to not use any of the normal RC's, and just rely on awareness.

In case anyone is curious, this is how I RC: During the day I attempt to maintain awareness. If I lose my awareness, I will notice after a few moments and ask myself if I'm dreaming, think back in time a few minutes, and look around at anything that may be strange. I'll attempt to stabilize my surroundings even if I'm awake, so that hopefully in a dream I will be stabilized and less likely to wake up when I go lucid. I'll maintain this awareness as long as possible, and repeat the process if I lose it.

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That's a great ADA practice.

It's also quite possible, that you not waking up due to RC. You just have short LDs. I used to have very short ones, no matter if I RCd or stabilized or not. Many times I woke up even before I had time do to anything. This made me believe that my LDs are very short and I have to hurry to stabilize and rush around and do as much as I can before I wake up. Then this thought itself was responsible for me waking up pretty much right after getting lucid. This "hurry up, because I'm gonna wake up soon".

But each time I managed to have a little longer LD I got more confident, that I can have longer LDs. I changed my mantra from "hurry up and stabilizestabilize" to "slow down and look around". I slowed down in LDs and my lucids are suddenly longer. I also noticed, that I'm falling asleep deeper faster, than I used to, so that can contribute to longer LDs as well (in WILDing).

Another thing is, that it's easiest to become lucid when we are already starting to wake up together with parts of brain that are responsible for awareness. So if you get lucid at that time, it may be short. Also, if your REM is ending, your LD will end.

And it may take a while for your daytime activity (using different RC or none at all) to start showing up in your dreams. But most important is your state of mind. Believe, that you have long LDs and you are getting better at it every day.

Good luck:alien:

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Originally Posted by VagalTone

This looks interesting. it seems a creative and critical style of ADA. how long have you been doing this ?

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Thanks :) I've been working on it for a while, maybe a couple months? Maybe longer, but I'm not sure. Haven't been doing it in this more refined form until a few weeks ago, and I'm still working on trying things out and improving it. I found that doing things my own way worked much better than following guides and all that. Though the guides were definitely helpful in providing insight and wisdom that I use for my own practices.

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Originally Posted by gab

That's a great ADA practice.

It's also quite possible, that you not waking up due to RC. You just have short LDs. I used to have very short ones, no matter if I RCd or stabilized or not. Many times I woke up even before I had time do to anything. This made me believe that my LDs are very short and I have to hurry to stabilize and rush around and do as much as I can before I wake up. Then this thought itself was responsible for me waking up pretty much right after getting lucid. This "hurry up, because I'm gonna wake up soon".

But each time I managed to have a little longer LD I got more confident, that I can have longer LDs. I changed my mantra from "hurry up and stabilizestabilize" to "slow down and look around". I slowed down in LDs and my lucids are suddenly longer. I also noticed, that I'm falling asleep deeper faster, than I used to, so that can contribute to longer LDs as well (in WILDing).

Another thing is, that it's easiest to become lucid when we are already starting to wake up together with parts of brain that are responsible for awareness. So if you get lucid at that time, it may be short. Also, if your REM is ending, your LD will end.

And it may take a while for your daytime activity (using different RC or none at all) to start showing up in your dreams. But most important is your state of mind. Believe, that you have long LDs and you are getting better at it every day.

Good luck:alien:

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Thanks, Gab. I'll try some mantras like that, and find something that works. I feel like I'm very close to getting where I want to be.

Your guys' comments are definitely helpful. I was a bit discouraged this morning, and needed a little boost. Thanks :)

Its really something these forums, when you think you have a problem no one else has BAM some one posts it :D!.

I recently started to try to LD again and was doing alot of reality checks throughout the day I only started to do them yesterday about 2 every hour.
my problem with LDing was that id pinch my nose, realize im dreaming and panick because for some reason I thought my dream was attacking me.

This time though I tried to control it, last night I LD'd and instantly started floating uncontrollably I was in a parking lot and remembered that
I have to stabilize and focus on something.

So I looked at a car and started describing it, I floated towards the car but a mountain came
between me and the car, luckily for some odd reason there was an Ipad on the mountain so I grabbed it and started focusing on it, I hear
some one call my name and it was my dad he said "we have to go" and as soon as he said that I woke up, the thing is I woke up instantly
the dream didn't deteriorate or anything it just snapped me back, I was pretty calm but still snapped me back :(

Was very annoying! but progress is progress :D!

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Originally Posted by Revoka

Its really something these forums, when you think you have a problem no one else has BAM some one posts it :D!.

I recently started to try to LD again and was doing alot of reality checks throughout the day I only started to do them yesterday about 2 every hour.
my problem with LDing was that id pinch my nose, realize im dreaming and panick because for some reason I thought my dream was attacking me.

This time though I tried to control it, last night I LD'd and instantly started floating uncontrollably I was in a parking lot and remembered that
I have to stabilize and focus on something.

So I looked at a car and started describing it, I floated towards the car but a mountain came
between me and the car, luckily for some odd reason there was an Ipad on the mountain so I grabbed it and started focusing on it, I hear
some one call my name and it was my dad he said "we have to go" and as soon as he said that I woke up, the thing is I woke up instantly
the dream didn't deteriorate or anything it just snapped me back, I was pretty calm but still snapped me back :(

Was very annoying! but progress is progress :D!

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Cool dream :)

I'm having issues with my recall deciding to vanish the last two nights. So I'll have to wait until it comes back to me before I can find out if my methods are working. I tried drinking a lot of water yesterday, thinking maybe I was dehydrated, but I remembered even less this morning than I did yesterday. Looks like it's going to be meditation and recall mantras for a few days.

nose pinch works awesome for false awakenings though. i've had so many times when i was completely convinced i was awake and about my day, tricked by dream characters, other reality checks failed, (jumping into the air trying to fly) and nose check has never failed me. i think it's still a very important one when used at the right time. it's possible that your RC comes at a not very opportune time during the dream and that you just happened to reach the end of your REM cycle (which kind of makes sense seeing that you become more aware as you are about to wake up).

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Originally Posted by VagalTone

In case anyone is curious, this is how I RC: During the day I attempt to maintain awareness. If I lose my awareness, I will notice after a few moments and ask myself if I'm dreaming, think back in time a few minutes, and look around at anything that may be strange. I'll attempt to stabilize my surroundings even if I'm awake, so that hopefully in a dream I will be stabilized and less likely to wake up when I go lucid. I'll maintain this awareness as long as possible, and repeat the process if I lose it.

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This is nearly exactly what I do, except that I don't try to stabilize. I'm not doing it on a consistent basis, it's time to now though. Got enough free time for a while. Glad to see this is working for someone else, makes me a bit more motivated!

Ah man it took me almost a month, but my recall is back on track. Last few nights I have remembered ~4 complete dreams.

And I have had a few lucids along the way that I was able to keep stable using the ideas I talked about here. They weren't particularly long, and I still didn't do much of anything; but it's an undeniably huge step that I was able to extend my LDs to 60 seconds or more as opposed to waking up the instant I get lucid. My focus on getting lucid without a physical RC has worked great. In all my recent LDs that I can think of, I have relied only on mental recognition of the dream. I pretty much only use physical actions to RC if I am in waking life and my awareness doesn't reveal that I'm in a dream.

(Ignore my weird sentences, too lazy to think of better wording :P)

Thanks for reading my nonsense! I know many people have "been there, done that." and I'm glad that I've finally gotten past that roadblock.