Old Hag Theory

A common question is to why people see/feel an evil presence when in Sleep Paralysis (The initial stage of a WILD).

My theory is that the reason for this is because of the fear that people are stricken with due to SP. When you enter SP, you can't move a muscle, and that is a scary thought. Also when in sleep paralysis, you are really close to sleeping, so you're mind isn't as likely to say, "don't be affraid, you're just in sleep paralysis".

Think of it this way, you have your (half awake) conscious mind, and your subconsious mind. You're conscious mind deals with paralysis by being affraid (even if you're full awake consious mind is expecting it) and your subconscious mind associates fear with nightmares.

Therefore, my theory is that one is in SP, one becomes fearful, and they fall asleep with fear instilled in them. They have a FA (I believe the transition from SP to a dream can be absolutely instaneous) and in this FA they see a figure, the 'old hag' generated by the fear caused by the SP. They then become more fightened, so much so as they wake themselves up as in a nightmare.

You don't often hear of too many people experienced with WILDs and SP feeling the evil presence. It is more often reported in unexpected SP victims or during the first few times WILDing.

I disagree; I have experienced them both, and I attest that they are indeed different experiences. While I agree that the scenario you illustrated is perfectly feasible, the Old Hag Syndrome is surely a type of haunting. The spirit approaches and instills feelings of fear, panic, dread, etc... until you can't handle the fear and you're almost mad with it. It then passes through you, robbing you of all that latent energy. The paralysis is fear-based. One can tell the difference easily. Very often, you are not paralyzed durring such a haunting. In one, I was awake, talking on the phone, and walking around my house as the presence stalked me everywhere I went. It wasn't until I was scared to the point of huddling in a corner, shaking violently, that it was close to passing through me. They are not, I am glad to say, dangerous. Just scary and annoying. The cases resembling SP may be just that, but I think that is also the most common setting for a true Old Hag experience, as well. The distinction is the incomplete paralysis, and the subsequent, sudden energy drain.

I wouldn't know. My fear during sleep paralysis is much different.. it doesn't need to embody itself. I really can't get at what you're pointing at here.. the kind of experiances i've faced are much different.. I would go into sleep paralysis.. and transferring to a dream works.. but I see nothing.. only one of two things.. white light, or no light. Sometimes there may be some sound, though it is very rare.. the part that always bothered me was the emptyness, it reminds me of death. I really don't fear it, i just find it most unpleasant. Its been my major stumbling block to achieving about half of my WILD's

Wow O'Nieronaut, thats one of the most disturbing things I've ever read...

On a scientific stand-point, I beleive that the fear comes with SP is just some sort of reaction between half awake, and half asleep. I think GoobCow's theory pretty much hit the nail on the head.

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Originally posted by O'Nieronaut
I disagree; I have experienced them both, and I attest that they are indeed different experiences. While I agree that the scenario you illustrated is perfectly feasible, the Old Hag Syndrome is surely a type of haunting. The spirit approaches and instills feelings of fear, panic, dread, etc... until you can't handle the fear and you're almost mad with it. It then passes through you, robbing you of all that latent energy. The paralysis is fear-based. One can tell the difference easily. Very often, you are not paralyzed durring such a haunting. In one, I was awake, talking on the phone, and walking around my house as the presence stalked me everywhere I went. It wasn't until I was scared to the point of huddling in a corner, shaking violently, that it was close to passing through me. They are not, I am glad to say, dangerous. Just scary and annoying. The cases resembling SP may be just that, but I think that is also the most common setting for a true Old Hag experience, as well. The distinction is the incomplete paralysis, and the subsequent, sudden energy drain.

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What the, you were actually awake and walking around and you saw the figure? Are you sure u werent dreaming? How did that feel could u touch it or what.

When I 1st got into LDing Id never heard about the old hag, and when I spoke to my friend and sister who have both had sleep paralysis they said they'd never experience the old hag, but were both extremely terrified of the paralysis. My sister says that when she gets sleep paralysis its connected with her having OBE's, she said she believed she was dieing when it happened, I had to explain to her what OBEing was haha, I was like wow. My friend has lucid dreams all the time and if he gets sleep paralysis he said he panics and trys his hardest to get out of it, kinda like being tied to a rail way track and trying to escape is how he described it lol.

I think GoobCow's theory makes sense. A week ago in August, I had a terrifying SP where I thought I was being raped. Most scary one yet. But now that I actually know what SP is, and I've found DreamViews, and I know that many other people experience it, it seems a whole lot less scary.

This morning I fell into SP again and it didn't feel that frightening. I just felt my hands being pulled and I thought I was being sucked into space. That's all it felt like. There was no "evil presence" to speak of. Then I went into a lucid dreeam where I was flying. :sheepishgrin:
Also, I wonder why they call it the Old Hag Theory when I usually feel like it's a male figure hovering over me.

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Originally posted by Zoggy


What the, you were actually awake and walking around and you saw the figure? Are you sure u werent dreaming? How did that feel could u touch it or what.

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No, I didn't see it, I felt it. Like the feeling of having someone behind you; sometimes you just know. Though there were some visual anomalies happening like wavy walls and a picture of my brother that seemed to talk. (This was before I ever touched drugs, so don't even try that. ;) ) The way I ended it was by confronting it and walking through it. It was like walking through a cold pillar of water, and my muscles tried to turn to jelly. After that, it stayed away. It is very possible that some Old Hag experiences are very much like SP, but like I said, in the haunting version, you are not completely paralyzed, just scared stiff. I have experienced both. There is a difference.

I've never heard of someone falling into sleep paralysis, other than doing something like WILD. Usually, you awaken to being paralyzed.

Anyways, Old Hag Syndrome occurs from sleep paralysis. Not all sleep paralysis induces it, but it can. O-Nieronaut, I'm not really sure what you're referring to as the old hag, but Old Hag Syndrome is when you awake to find yourself paralyzed though you can see, feel, and hear. Typically it is accompanied by auditory hallucinations, strange smells, weird apparitions, feelings of a sinister presence, glowing eyes, shadowy figures, etc [you know all things evil] and quite often a feeling of a heavy weight on the chest. This is where the name comes from, the old superstition that it is a witch (or old hag) that is sitting on your chest and rendering you paralyzed while all these evil things take place.

I've had this happen to me two or three times now. Don't make the same mistake I did and try to sit up; it makes it worse. The best thing when awakening to this is to just close your eyes, calm down, and tell yourself it is just a dream.

I've also experienced sleep paralysis that does not result in a old hag happening, and it was quite a different experience.

O-Nieronaut, your one experience sounds interesting and scary but I don't think it's Old Hag Syndrome, as the cause for Old Hag is most commonly attributed to sleep paralysis (though not all SP triggers the Old Hag).

PS. apologies for un-burying an old thread. I know that makes some people crazy, but it is 4:30 am and I need something to do, so just try to get through the anger un-burying the dead brings up and tomorrow will be a better day. I promise.