Breaking That Stage 5 Barrier

Hello again!

As you may know, I'm currently attempting to WILD.

Two days ago, I found a method which helps me get into Sleep Paralysis. Basically, I chant, "1... Stay awake... 2... Stay awake... 1... Stay awake..." in my head, and it's very successful. I can get to Sleep Paralysis in about five minutes now.

It's really weird... I try and move my leg, and I can actually feel that the conection between my brain and my leg has been severed... I can feel the brain signal passing down my body, and sort of... Dissolving. Very cool. :)

A lot of people say that SP scares them a lot, but I'm fine with it...

Anyway, my main problem, as you may well have guessed, is that I can never actually get anywhere with this. You could say that I'm an expert in almost WILDing - No matter what I do, I can't get from Stage 4 to Stage 5. After a while of SP, I start to see some bright flashes, and last night I got my first ever audio sensation (a chord which would randomly drop up and down an octave). I also get some pretty unexplainable sensations, or what I call 'veil sensations', in which the blackness that I can see becomes a part of me.

I know that this is a really vague part of WILDing, but it would really help if someone who's WILDed before could describe exactly what they felt as they went between Stage 4 and Stage 5 - What actually happened? How did you enter your dreamworld?

Comments of any sort would be appriciated.

Thanks,
Xei.

Oh oh oh, I have the same problem as you!

First of all, I don't get SP, I just feel like novacane was injected into my entire body, I can move anything I want. It feels like something heavy was just put on me, and the more I concentrate on that part of the body, the more heavy it feels till I kinda like lose feel of it, but I can move it if I wanted to... make sense? I doubt SP would scare me if I got it, I wake up sometimes during the night and have no sense in one of my arms, cause usually I was sleeping on it or something. Never freaked me out that my arm is dead or anything, but it sucks so much when you're thirsty and you can't move your arms, to open the fridge to get anything :| Usually the blood gets circulating within 15-20 minutes in that arm, but god damn, sitting in the kitchen waiting for it to get back no normal while thirsty, AWFUL. :o

I don't get flashes or anything pal, I wish I did, I just feel my mind drifting away from my body, and this is where I often get sounds of water rushing after that I start to float away from my bed which is where I can't control my excitement. DAMMIT.

I like Xei would really appriciate if someone would tell us where to go after the spinning in midair stops / 'viel' sensations

Thanks :D

hello....it seems like WILDing is my only way to induce in LDs. I always get into SP...last night I had around 5 or 6 SPs. What I'll do is to just wait for the vibrations to stop, most of the time I'll end up in an FA. Always, always do a RC. And always be patient. But sometimes i wouldnt be successful too because during SP, i'll feel pain, and when that pain becames too intense...i'll jerk myself awake. Last night, after meditation for 1 hour, i fell into SP. I tried attempting OBE, but the SP effects were really distracting. Disrupting my concentration. I felt someone pulling my ankle, and it got painer and painer so i had no choice but to wake up. Then I did an RC, i was in a FA. i dont really like FAs, so i jerked myself up again. Did another RC, yet another FA. Got so pissed that i jerked really really hard until i woke up...lol

Thanks for the comeback. :)

Could you, or anyone else, explain what it's actually like to go from SP / Stage 4 into a Lucid Dream?

I hear a lot about 'and then I'm in a Lucid Dream', but how do you actually get there? Do you open your eyes? And how do you know that you're in a dream?

Thanks again,
Xei.

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Originally posted by Xei
Thanks for the comeback. :)

Could you, or anyone else, explain what it's actually like to go from SP / Stage 4 into a Lucid Dream?

I hear a lot about 'and then I'm in a Lucid Dream', but how do you actually get there? Do you open your eyes? And how do you know that you're in a dream?

Thanks again,
Xei.

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Hello Xei,

I know the frustration of crossing over this barrier. Although SP is wonderful for entering LD - there is a timing factor to it.

Waiting until you are in full SP may be the culprit which keeps you from entering LD. I've noticed that if I wait until full SP, I cannot LD (as easily) and therefore, I OBE.

Here's something to try (which has worked for me). Focus on entering LD when you begin to feel the deep, strong vibrations in your extremeties, especially your hands, which often occurs in early Stage 4 - anywhere from 2 to 10 minutes prior to full Stage 4.

When you feel the vibrations, you should enter the imagery you've (hopefuly) been focusing on since you first laid down/relaxed and began the steps to induce SP. The goal is, by the time full SP sets in, you're already experiencing some level of HI to help you make the crossover. Waiting until after full SP can be very frustating (for some), unless of course you're Exiting (OBE).

As for what it "feels like"....that really varies. I do not open my eyes because I am concentrating on taking my imagery and manifesting it into my dream. When I begin to feel vibrations or a "heaviness," I slip into the LD by allowing myself to relent and let go. That's a big step because, up until this point in Stage 4, you are usually hypervigilant and very aware of every sound or bodily sensation. By relenting during the vibrations, into the imagery, you are "allowing" yourself to enter LD. In other words, "Let Go When the Vibrations Arrive."


~Deja

Okay... I think I'm starting to get it. As I've got to the heavy stage before, I know what you mean by 'let go'.

But I'm still a little vague on how the dream appears...

Do you suddenly find yourself in a dream after you 'let yourself go'? Does it just suddenly hit you?

And how long should the heavy / falling sensation last for?

You're being a really great help, Deja. :)

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Originally posted by Xei
Do you suddenly find yourself in a dream after you 'let yourself go'? Does it just suddenly hit you?

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Hi Sweetie,

Yes, it does suddenly just \"hit you.\" There is no awareness of transistion until you are in the dream. This is why its suggested you confirm you are in a dream state by trying to manipulate your environment. IF there were a transition, you would not need any confirmation. I know what you're searching for - to know what it feels like to go from Point A to Point B, but the altered reality is virtually seamless.

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Originally posted by Xei
And how long should the heavy / falling sensation last for?

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This really varies. For me, it can last up to 30 minutes or more. But some people report feeling vibrations and are in SP within a few seconds - almost as if the 2 are occuring at once. You can lengthen the heavy/falling sensation by staying alert through visualization. Many people cease visualization as soon as they start feeling heavy because they are so bewildered by the sensation and begin to wonder "What do I do?" or "What happens next?" Those thoughts need to be quelched.

I wrote a little about Vibrations on this thread. It might be helpful to you?
http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19878

~Deja

Hmm... I go into SP before I feel any weird sensations. It's only once I'm in SP when I begin to feel heavy...

Anyway, I went into pretty complete SP last night, and I started to feel numb, but then I must have lost conciousness.

Oh well, I'll try again tonight. :)

Join the club :D

Been falling asleep for the past week :cry:

ALL I DO ANYMORE IS JUST FALL ASLEEP!! gosh its soo frustrating. I have only WILDed 1 time. And it was on accident when I was sleeping on the couch. I didnt even know what WILD was at the time. Now whenever I try it I am laying there in bed concentrating.. then I wake up in the morning. GRR!!

Konefku ~ Xei ~ Corey

When you are doing WILD, are you using visualization and affirmations? These 2 actions should prevent you from falling asleep prior to SP.

Another option for those who fall asleep too quickly. Set an alarm to wake you 1 hour after you go to bed. However, make sure the alarm is the kind that only beeps for a few seconds, such as a kitchen timer - or a cell phone with a short alarm/alert (reminder) option. The reason is, when the alarm goes off, you do not want to move or startle at all. You don't want to have to get up and turn the alarm off manually. Remain perfectly still when the alarm wakes you. This alone usually induces SP.

~Deja

yup i agree with the alarm thing, I have often had lucid dreams simply by being sort of half woken up, then u are automatically at like step4 in the WILD thing or whatever, its almost like a shortcut heh

Deja

When im lying there im counting. But I constantly catch myself no longer counting and I have to restart. I think I have ADD very bad or something. I cant just concentrate on counting. I just drift off onto an idea or story.

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Originally posted by DejaSoul
Konefku ~ Xei ~ Corey

When you are doing WILD, are you using visualization and affirmations? These 2 actions should prevent you from falling asleep prior to SP.

Another option for those who fall asleep too quickly. Set an alarm to wake you 1 hour after you go to bed. However, make sure the alarm is the kind that only beeps for a few seconds, such as a kitchen timer - or a cell phone with a short alarm/alert (reminder) option. The reason is, when the alarm goes off, you do not want to move or startle at all. You don't want to have to get up and turn the alarm off manually. Remain perfectly still when the alarm wakes you. This alone usually induces SP.

~Deja

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I'm Okay with SP, I can get into it almost at will.

The strange thing is that I don't get any Physical sensations before it, as it would seem that most people do - I get SP, and then I get the sinking feeling.

By the way, I fell asleep again last night, but it was half-hearted really, and I'm worn out at the moment. I'll try again tonight, but don't expect any breakthroughs until the weekend. :)

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When im lying there im counting. But I constantly catch myself no longer counting and I have to restart. I think I have ADD very bad or something. I cant just concentrate on counting. I just drift off onto an idea or story.[/b]

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I used to count, but I've found much more effective ways. Try the following:

"1... Stay focused.
2... Stay focused.
1... Stay focused.
2... Stay focused."

Tell me if it's any better. ;)

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Originally posted by coreysnyder
When im lying there im counting. But I constantly catch myself no longer counting and I have to restart. I think I have ADD very bad or something. I cant just concentrate on counting. I just drift off onto an idea or story.

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You dont have to count, the point in counting is to stay focused. Try other ways of staying focused. Usually, I concentrate on the ringing in my ears, and the sensations in my body. In Stephen Laberge's book "Exploring The World Of Lucid Dreaming", he states several other ways of focusing.

It's whatever works best for you :mrgreen:

I dont have a ringing in my ears. I bet even if I kept telling myself "Stay focused", within 10 minutes I would be thinking about something else. And when I realized I wasnt staying focused, I cant for the life of me think of what I was just thinking about... maybe I have split personalityes b/c my brain blocks out whatever I was just thinking about. Its very crazy!

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Originally posted by coreysnyder
Deja *
* *
* When im lying there im counting. But I constantly catch myself no longer counting and I have to restart. I think I have ADD very bad or something. I cant just concentrate on counting. I just drift off onto an idea or story.

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Hello Corey,

I'm pretty certain you do not have ADD. It is very common to become repeatedly distracted. It's okay and very normal.

I find counting terribly distracting. For one, the task of counting stimulates the Left Brain - the Rational and Sequential side. For LD, you want the Right Brain to be stimulated - the Intuitive and Holistic side.

This is probably the reason you can't concentrate on the numbers very long. Your Right Brain wants to be dominant, but you're holding it back with giving your Left Brain a task (counting) to keep it active.

Don't do anything \"Left Brained\" while trying to meditate. Let your thoughts roam free and abstract. Focus on emotions and creation. While affirmations are good, like \"I am free\" or \"I am relaxed\".....for people who are not prone to focus on a statement, repeated over and over again, it can be nothing less than frustrating.

My advice would be to not restrict yourself to repeated affirmations or counting...for right now. Just let your thoughts flow \"away\" from you while staying alert. Try not to move any part of your body during the process - not even your eyes.

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Originally posted by Xei
The strange thing is that I don't get any Physical sensations before it, as it would seem that most people do - I get SP, and then I get the sinking feeling

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Hello Xei,

Although it's very common to feel vibrations prior to SP, you can also get them during, after, or not at all. I was trying to give you the "earliest point of exit" in the most common sequence of events. If you do not have vibrations, then for you the earliest point of exit would be SP itself.

When SP occurs, what gestaults do you notice? This would help to point you in the right direction. Do you feel you have transparent eyelids? Do you notice your room is altered in any way? Do you hear or feel a presence during SP? Or, do you simply feel heavy, and if so, at what point does the heaviness occur? Have you tried to move during the heaviness, and if so, what was the response?

~Deja

Hey Deja,

THx for the help!! Usually when I let my mind go and just go off on wild stories I loose concentration very fast b/c I get into the stories and they become dreams. I have a HUGE imagination. Im gonna try to WILD right now as I am super tired and will fall asleep pretty easily. Looking forward toa reply tomarrow!

I notice a lot of you guys are talking about sleep paralysis. Whats the point of it? What do you guys achieve this state for?

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Originally posted by coreysnyder
I notice a lot of you guys are talking about sleep paralysis. Whats the point of it? What do you guys achieve this state for?

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Hello Corey,

Sleep Paralysis occurs every night - to everyone. It's the state when your body goes to sleep but your mind is still alert. Most people sleep through this transition. However, if you keep your body very still and allow it to "go to sleep" while keeping your mind aware, you'll feel SP.

I use SP to OBE. The "point" of it is to dream while you are awake. It is, in fact, an LD because you are aware the entire time. However, it can be confusing, or even frightening to some people because they wish to move their body, but cannot. I have never experienced fear with SP, but because I do not feeling "locked down" (paralyzed), I Exit my body.

~Deja

OOH what do u want to have OBEs for? Just to see what u look like laying in bed? I only remember having SP when I had a WILD. It was pretty sweet.