WBTB and Insomnia?

I've been practicing WBTB for a few days now, in general it's almost doubled my output into my dream journal (because I'm dreaming twice instead of only once), but I still haven't attained lucidity. This question is really one about not necessarily using it to attain lucidity, but rather, whether or not it's advisable to perform WBTB in the following circumstances:

I have insomnia every so often; I simply don't sleep for an entire night; at current I've been awake for about 36 hours, and am pretty knackered. I'm wondering, is it advisable to still wake myself up on this little sleep, or should I let myself all the way through? Moreover, if I did do WBTB, should I wake myself up at the same 4-6 hour interval after falling asleep, or will the pattern somehow be altered by how little sleep I've had? Finally, and something that kind of excites me, is it possible that the very tired state, combined with WBTB, might increase my chances of lucid dreaming? Since I'm so tired, I imagine I'd fall back to sleep quickly after being awake for a little while. Has anyone else had an experience where being more tired has maybe given them more vivid dreams or even made them lucid?

Thanks!
Liolar

I have read that sleep deprivation will lead to a "REM rebound" in which you have extended periods of REM next time you sleep which, yes, could make you have more vivid dreams/lucid dreams. I can imagine that WBTB would work quite well during this situation because you would have a higher chance of waking up during REM/close to REM and you could WILD or DEILD.

Actually, the more time you spend sleep deprived will hinder your attempts at lucid dreaming. The reason is that just as there is REM rebound, our bodies also have something called NREM rebound. Sleep is crucial for your overall health, and if the body keeps losing restorative sleep it will increase it the next time you go to sleep because you need it. If for one day you decided to sleep very late, then sure, you would've benefited from a REM rebound for that particular night; if you keep losing sleep continuously, then a REM rebound is unlikely to happen.

And I'm telling you this as someone who also suffers from insomnia every once in a while. Whenever I have one of those days were I can't sleep, stress tends to skyrocket to very high levels, and my abilities to even remember a dream vanish. I'm just so tired to even wake up during the night, and as you might deduce, the opportunities to lucid dream greatly reduce. Also, because of school, I usually slept very late during the night, sleeping like -6 hours a day. I just didn't bothered with lucid dreaming at that point. When the weekend came I would make up for that little amount of sleep by sleeping for about 10 hours straight but I rarely remembered a dream or attained lucidity.

What I'm doing now to solve this is to form myself a much healthier and efficient sleep habit than I had before. I tend to sleep now early on week days and tend to leave the weekends for late sleep if I feel like staying up late. I find it far more better to do this than being continuously in a sleep deprived state, and I have to tell you, the benefits are totally worth it. You sleep better, get up NATURALLY two or three times throughout the night where you can journal your dreams and practice WBTB. Also, the opportunities to lucid dream vastly increase.

Indeed, both WolfDog and RandomHaxor are correct. that REM rebound will come, and you can still become lucid then, but youll also have NREM rebound. But it shouldmt affect your ability to become lucid. In that REM rebound your dreams definitely will become WAY more vivid and clear, so you chances still increase in my opinion. NREM will always come along for the ride as well, but you can still become lucid in NREM, so its no big deal. So yes, you can become lucid during this time for sure, Ive done it before. One thing though, do not overthink, because then you wont fall asleep. Let your mind drift and dont think about anything in specific. Just let your mind wander. Hope this helped :)

Great info in all these posts here. But if I may, I'm just gonna add something.

REM rebound happens after some sleep deprivation. It happens because when we lose sleep, we lose both NREM and REM cycles. But our body deems REM more important than NREM. So when we finally go to sleep, our body throws us almost immediatelly into REM, skipping NREM, thinking it better catches up on what we missed, in case we will lack sleep again.

So only REM rebound happens, not both REM and NREM.

But I couldn't tell you how long of a sleep deprivation is ideal to get a REM rebound, before it becomes too long. When it becomes too long, next sleep will be not REM, but deep NREM sleep, since by then our body needs that over REM.

If you want hassle free REM, take a morning, noon or early afternoon nap. Those usually start almost immediatelly in REM. Ideal for WILDing, but also DILDing.

Good luck and happy dreams.

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Originally Posted by gab

Great info in all these posts here. But if I may, I'm just gonna add something.

REM rebound happens after some sleep deprivation. It happens because when we lose sleep, we lose both NREM and REM cycles. But our body deems REM more important than NREM. So when we finally go to sleep, our body throws us almost immediatelly into REM, skipping NREM, thinking it better catches up on what we missed, in case we will lack sleep again.

So only REM rebound happens, not both REM and NREM.

But I couldn't tell you how long of a sleep deprivation is ideal to get a REM rebound, before it becomes too long. When it becomes too long, next sleep will be not REM, but deep NREM sleep, since by then our body needs that over REM.

If you want hassle free REM, take a morning, noon or early afternoon nap. Those usually start almost immediatelly in REM. Ideal for WILDing, but also DILDing.

Good luck and happy dreams.

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Thanks for the advice folks! Some really good pointers on here. I will have to research more about the whole REM/NREM thing, since I'm not really up on my sleep science. I think I should possibly be alright for luciity in this cycle. (I was just woken about half an hour ago, but the alarm was really loud and I think it made some of my recall a bit fuzzy, though I still recalled a fair bit, so thanks to Wolfdog for that pointer; I should probably try and notice my natural awakenings more often, since my alarm is incredibly jarring. Still, filled in my journa!)

I should do some research on sleep deprivation, and see if I can find the ideal time of going-to-bed to induce a lucid dream, or in general, when I'm most likely to have REM or NREM sleep. These long insomniac nights don't have very often; I usually get to sleep at one point or another, but when they do happen the period of wakefulness is usually about 34-36 hours.