What is common between the dream and waking...oh, and sleeping states?

We usually discuss a lot about dreamsigns, oddities, gravity, things that only happen in dreams. That´s fine, that´s perhaps the basis of modern lucid dreaming approaches. From that perspective, lucid dreaming is an extraordinary psychological and physiological feat.

But i will propose that our ancient cultures did approach lucid dreaming in a different way -they highlighted the common denominator between all possible human experiences. Of course that would be something truly simple and basic, perhaps something so obvious that we miss all the time, like our own eyelashes. That must be our own cognizance, the pre-conceptual awareness, the lucid and pristine knowing that you experience for a brief second everytime you wake up, or get so curious and open about something like a child inside a temple, or your thoughts seem to disappear by some reason.

In sum, i suggest that one doesn´t need critical thinking skills, or discriminating capacities, to become lucid. I think one only needs to recognize this always fresh, cognizant aspect of our minds which are indivisible from any experience, although we might believe that it is absent in dreaming, or in deep sleep.

Next time you are dreaming try to recognize this same sense of aliveness, of raw existence, and report what happens. The best way to do that is falling asleep in that recognition, and the best way to do that is to recognize during the day - short moments, many times - our primordial, pristine nature of mind.

Edit: if someone is confused about what i'm saying, i can help a little bit, but this is not something to think too much about, quite the opposite

I'm not sure most people experience pristine, primordial awareness upon waking. In fact, most people don't experience this at all. I dont even think we get there in lucid dreams. I think you are saying to just experience the present moment maybe, and I don't mind giving that a try the next time I remember to do so.

I have to agree with 3Cat here, Vagaltone; most people do not experience that primordial awareness upon waking (or much at all, if that primordiial awareness = pure sentience/self-awareness). However, you do make an excellent point.

I think that what is common between the dreaming and waking states is consciouseness. We are there, experiencing every moment, be it dreaming or waking, or in the deepest of sleep conscious pervades all conditions.

The only thing missing during pretty much all of this is our attention: our recognition of our presence in dreams, and waking-life for that matter... all we need to do is remember that this conscious activity is ours, and lucidity blossoms by default.

So yes, all those "modern" things like critical thinking skills really aren't necessary, but I'm not sure it is because we all have moments of preconceptual cognition from which to draw, but because ultimately all you need to do to be lucid is pay attention -- which I suppose is a fairly primitive thing as well.

I don't think I made my point, but time is short. Hopefully this conversation will continue, and I can add a couple more cents later... you may have hit nicely upon an excellent topic, Vagaltone, and one that is rarely discussed.

When we wake up it is easier to recognize it, and they say also when you sneeze or when you reach orgasm. But yes, it doesn't come naturally and effortlessly without the training of short moments many times. So attention is key at least in the beggining. Then it is said that every experience, including dream and sleep, becomes more and more luminous and lucid and you finally understand experientally that everything is powered by your own (not an individual) awareness.
You can see that awareness is present all the time, whether you recognize it ir not, because you can now recognize it backwards. You can recall your last nonlucid dream, and despite the fact that you were nonlucid now you can recall it and feel that in its deepest sense it was also an experience happening in the same background of awareness and the same raw aliveness that is showing up now, only it was dimmer and it didn't iluminate or recognize itself. And when we can't recall it was it there? An interesting exercise i leave to you.

There seems to be an overlap with our understanding of memory and attention, and i wont even try to adrress the mind-brain problem. Can we really be sure our awareness was there when we don't have any recall? Does it depend on the brain, or does not and it's always present even in deep anesthesia, coma, and in death? Once again they say that even death is just another experience happening in our primordial awareness, like a small universe in an infinite multiverse. But that's just too far ahead for this discussion.

Anyway, it's time to leave my scholar role and redirect you to propper teachings and writings, and a good first read would be the scientific papers of the nondual awareness researcher Zoran Josipovic.

What is looking at this post, hearing this background noise, experiencing this ? It's our open inteligence, which is always on, whether the stimuli have an external or internal origin.

Ho, everything is displayed and is a configuration of our open intelligence. No, this is not solipsism. It doesnt feel like that at all.

We need to start recognizing our own cognizance and everything that appears in it as an image on the surface of a cristal ball. They are inseparable, they are both an expanse of cognizance.

Everything you know and experience is this cognizance, but you reify it and therefore comes nonlucidity.
Cognizance is on 24 hours a day. No need to contrive, to modify one's experience, to change anything. It's already present, the keys are already in our pockets. Further search is unecessary. This is a big joke !

Then, lucidity can be simply a matter of finding and enjoying your awareness, without too much concern about content because it can pull us to non lucidity. As i see lucid dreaming now, it is increasingly an appreciation of the light or luminosity of my awareness. And it is powerful to see it's everywhere, everytime, hopefully in death too.

That's been my motivation to lucid dream lately, and i feel its deeply meaningful - something i couldn find before.

You are what is common. What are you though? You aren't your physical body because that isn't present in dreams, you've got a new body there (or no body at all). It's got to be "awareness", "being-ness".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tofur

You are what is common. What are you though? You aren't your physical body because that isn't present in dreams, you've got a new body there (or no body at all). It's got to be "awareness", "being-ness".

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Yes, identification with the body is nothing but a survival mechanism. But i think there´s no need to identify with awareness either. It is always here, and that is enough. No need to say i am awareness, or we are awareness ( but that's actually what it is supposed to feel like, i guess :) )
Thoughts and emotions come and go, stillness remains, so it´s the king. And when one can have certainty in that, thoughts and emotions become just pure energy, depersonalized bursts of self releasing energy. Then, there´s no more duality between awareness and appearances - until reification (nonlucidity) comes again, if it comes

So, in a sentence: our experience is nothing else but this all-pervading vivid wakefulness, whether we are aware of it or not. What a relief !

Our ordinary mind has an empty cognizance by default, the simple fact of being aware, the knowing, the relaxed wakefulness without fixation is the nature of every experience. Everything arise in pure consciousness and liberate in pure consciousness. Knowing remains. In a sense thoughts and emotions are perceived as the dynamic energy of ordinary mind, which is itself already pure empty cognizance.

Now Plunge into that by totally relaxing, without any discursive or phylosophical worry. When the next thought arrive, simply keep your natural cool, your alert relaxed natural state, and watch the thought lose all its self referential attachment and passing away. Thoughts become harmless, actually they can become our best friends, forging our awareness and compassion. Keep yourself relaxed but not distracted. Do it for short moments many times.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ6nS-kkoyE