Are all day type RC's necessary?

So the big thing I guess is to have some sort of constant reality check going for you. (Hukif's Gravity RC, ADA, etc.) My question is...are these necessary to LD? It seems that the people who started LDing when it first become more popular just used RC's at random points or when they see dream signs to get lucid in their dreams. Or they do something that you only do for a few second to a minute at different points throughout the day.

Those people seem to be able to LD at will as well as the people that practiced all day techniques. So could you potentially just do RC's with actual meaningful questioning (and looking around at my environment) to increase your awareness? Would that carry over into dreams as well?

In my opinion, it's not needed to use all day techniques like All Day Awareness to become lucid. Personally, I can't do ADA for more than a few days as it's quite tiring, but I have lots of moments of sporadic awareness each day - which I couple with mantras, reality checks and attempting Dream Control.

I think how techniques work all come down to what type of person you are. Everyone is different with these kinds of things. But yeah, RCing should carry on over to your dreams in due time.

No, ADA and others are not necessary. Critical reflection followed my a mindful RC is fine.

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Originally Posted by ThreeCat

No, ADA and others are not necessary. Critical reflection followed my a mindful RC is fine.

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Critical Reflection is basically just asking if you're dreaming and thinking back to the past? (Like what I described above) Or is it something completely different?

EDIT: NM I figured it out :P I actually already knew the answer but I drew a blank.

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Originally Posted by Sharpshoey

So the big thing I guess is to have some sort of constant reality check going for you. (Hukif's Gravity RC, ADA, etc.) My question is...are these necessary to LD?

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Nope; not necessary. If you can manage ADA, then go for it; but you are still going to need to do something to augment that routine to get your mind fully in the right place -- and, when your mind is in the right place, you might just find you never needed to do an ADA regimen in the first place (now there's a fun merry-go-round to hop on). It's one thing to become lucid in a dream, and it's another thing altogether to remain lucid and to appreciate that lucidity once you're there. You need (wait for it...) the fundamentals -- self-awareness, access to memory, expectation/intention -- for that, and just doing an awareness routine will not build up the fundamentals.

I know nothing about Hukif's Gravity RC at all, so I don't know if he included something about mindset in it (I would bet he did), so I won't comment on it. But I did get myself in a difficult place once by mentioning here that ADA on its own, though certainly a fine tool, might actually not be a good thing for lucidity in the long run. I think somewhere on that thread that its creator mentioned additional work on mindset was necessary, though.

So if you're doing RC's with critical questions, and you are working on self-awareness, memory, and expectation/intentions, then you're all set -- no need to spend the entire day trying to absorb all of your surroundings!

It's not essential, but I'm of the opinion that lucid during day = lucid during night. That doesn't have to be ADA or gravity, just don't be a zombie. Don't stay all day on auto-pilot.

Edit: and lol, why do you ask? Not long ago you were very excited and motivated to commit to Gravity RC, regardless of how long it would take to master it.

idk very well what you mean with meaningful questions, but it reminds me of my own search for something different from the conventional RC, which just seemed full of contrivance and short sightdness and keep me on this duality of waking and sleeping. And in that search, i am learning that some aspects of our minds are always on whether awake or asleep, and that became a main theme of reflection and mindfulness, because i could not only derive the benefits of LDing but actually the taste of incipient nonduality, which keeps improving. That's just a very special and definitive version of ADA, a very relaxed and meaningful one.

So i would say you need a minimum of applied mindfulness, that is, directed to some critical aspect, or you could say mindfulness coupled with insight. The way i do it, in short, is to mindfully notice my own basic cognizance. I have some threads about it.

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Originally Posted by mimihigurashi

It's not essential, but I'm of the opinion that lucid during day = lucid during night. That doesn't have to be ADA or gravity, just don't be a zombie. Don't stay all day on auto-pilot.

Edit: and lol, why do you ask? Not long ago you were very excited and motivated to commit to Gravity RC, regardless of how long it would take to master it.

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I agree here. I suspect that the more you can remain in high quality lucidity by day, the stronger your self-awareness becomes, and the closer you get to the point where your self-awareness is strong enough to punch through the fog/dullness of the dream state to become lucid in dreams. In order to get to the point where you're always somewhat self-aware during the day, it may take some time of somewhat tiring wakeful practice. Mindfulness shouldn't be tiring, but sometimes you may just feel like "aw never mind", because we're so used to the zombie zoned out place, it's so comforting to be on autopilot. But work through it and persevere, and you'll reap the rewards both in waking life and in dreams.

I think that daytime practice (mindfulness, Gravity RC, etc) is necessary to become a frequent lucid dreamer, you have to rely too much on techniques if you don't 'train' your awareness at day. You don't need to practice awareness, but if you want to take your skills to the next level, I think practising awareness all day long is something you should do. I would go for mindfulness instead of ADA. ADA is just too exhausting in my opinion.

I think that the hardest part of these practices, is that you really need to stick to it. It can be really frustrating when you give a 100% and you don't see any results after some weeks.

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Originally Posted by Forg

I think that daytime practice (mindfulness, Gravity RC, etc) is necessary to become a frequent lucid dreamer, you have to rely too much on techniques if you don't 'train' your awareness at day. You don't need to practice awareness, but if you want to take your skills to the next level, I think practising awareness all day long is something you should do. I would go for mindfulness instead of ADA. ADA is just too exhausting in my opinion.

I think that the hardest part of these practices, is that you really need to stick to it. It can be really frustrating when you give a 100% and you don't see any results after some weeks.

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I agree, and I understand about the frustration. But take a different mindset instead: you're doing the mindfulness not for "instant lucidity" or for any particular tangible future of happiness that is conditional upon your wishes coming true (which is the opposite of traditional mindfulness which teaches you to be content living in the present moment), but because it leads to a better life. Lucidity is a side benefit. It's a journey, not a destination.

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Originally Posted by mimihigurashi

It's not essential, but I'm of the opinion that lucid during day = lucid during night. That doesn't have to be ADA or gravity, just don't be a zombie. Don't stay all day on auto-pilot.

Edit: and lol, why do you ask? Not long ago you were very excited and motivated to commit to Gravity RC, regardless of how long it would take to master it.

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I'm not doing the Gravity RC anymore...not because I lost motivation, but because I read in a thread about it by Hukif that if you carry around a backpack or something heavy a lot, it renders the RC useless. So I quit for the time being. I may go back to it later if I stop carrying around things like backpacks and stuff.

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Nope; not necessary. If you can manage ADA, then go for it; but you are still going to need to do something to augment that routine to get your mind fully in the right place -- and, when your mind is in the right place, you might just find you never needed to do an ADA regimen in the first place (now there's a fun merry-go-round to hop on). It's one thing to become lucid in a dream, and it's another thing altogether to remain lucid and to appreciate that lucidity once you're there. You need (wait for it...) the fundamentals -- self-awareness, access to memory, expectation/intention -- for that, and just doing an awareness routine will not build up the fundamentals.

I know nothing about Hukif's Gravity RC at all, so I don't know if he included something about mindset in it (I would bet he did), so I won't comment on it. But I did get myself in a difficult place once by mentioning here that ADA on its own, though certainly a fine tool, might actually not be a good thing for lucidity in the long run. I think somewhere on that thread that its creator mentioned additional work on mindset was necessary, though.

So if you're doing RC's with critical questions, and you are working on self-awareness, memory, and expectation/intentions, then you're all set -- no need to spend the entire day trying to absorb all of your surroundings!

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Yep I am doing all of those things right now. I've never heard you talk about expectation/intentions though. Could you explain that to me? And also, right now I'm not saying a mantra when I do RC's or at anytime. I saw in a later lesson in your WILD class you have a mantra section. Should I wait until then to start using a mantra. (I know your class is about WILD, but the techniques also help with DILD as well so I'm assuming the mantra would)

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I agree, and I understand about the frustration. But take a different mindset instead: you're doing the mindfulness not for "instant lucidity" or for any particular tangible future of happiness that is conditional upon your wishes coming true (which is the opposite of traditional mindfulness which teaches you to be content living in the present moment), but because it leads to a better life. Lucidity is a side benefit. It's a journey, not a destination.

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Could you please explain what you mean by mindfullness throughout the whole day...or whatever you were telling me about? (I think it was mindfulness but there was a few other things discussed as well) Also, how does this improve self-awareness? Sageous has said the self awareness is just knowing that you affect reality and it affects you. Those weren't the exact words but its the general idea.

EDIT: Also Sageous, while I'm here I might as well ask you another question I've been wondering about. Instead of doing RRC's, what do you think of all day self awareness things. Like what is described in this thread http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...-my-twist.html I'm pretty sure you said you could do "ADSA" but would there be more benefits from that than from the RRC, since you're doing it all day?

You know, we get a lot questions and concerns about ADA - "should I do it the whole day; it is so tiring, etc."

While I don't practice ADA all day long, I love to be more aware of my surroundings and myself on a sporadic basis and it has never tired me. On the contrary, it feels very refreshing and recharging. So why is that? Perhaps the answer lies in the way attention is exercised. ADA reminds me a lot of a definition of mindfulness meditation as described in SA, Nov issue. Let me type a few things for you, maybe it makes more sense then.

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Mindfulness meditation:
Also called open-monitoring meditation, mindfulness entails observing sights, sounds, and other sensations, including internal bodily sensations and thoughts, without being carried away by them.

Mindfulness or open-monitoring meditation tries to culvitate a less (emotionally) reactive awareness to emotions, thoughts and sensations occuring in the present moment to prevent them from spiralling out of control and creating mental distress. In mindfulness, the meditator remains attentive, moment by moment, to any experience without focusing on anything specific.

Mindfulness requires the meditator to take notice of every sight or sound and track internal bodily sensations and inner self-talk. The person stays aware of what is happening without becoming overly preoccupied with any single perception or thought, returning to this detached focus each time the mind strays.

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This definition explains quite well how to practice mindfulness or ADA without becoming overwhelmed by it. If I have to use a metaphor it would be, glide your mind on the surface of a lake, rather than plunge in it. This will help you remain aware, develop a sense of detachment and with this sense of detachment, you will also become more aware of yourself.

My take on any awareness practices including ADA, mindfulness or RCs is similar to what mimihigurashi said. You don't have to practice it 24/7 just take it a bit slower and try to be more aware in general.

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Originally Posted by NyxCC

You know, we get a lot questions and concerns about ADA - "should I do it the whole day; it is so tiring, etc."

While I don't practice ADA all day long, I love to be more aware of my surroundings and myself on a sporadic basis and it has never tired me. On the contrary, it feels very refreshing and recharging. So why is that? Perhaps the answer lies in the way attention is exercised. ADA reminds me a lot of a definition of mindfulness meditation as described in SA, Nov issue. Let me type a few things for you, maybe it makes more sense then.



This definition explains quite well how to practice mindfulness or ADA without becoming overwhelmed by it. If I have to use a metaphor it would be, glide your mind on the surface of a lake, rather than plunge in it. This will help you remain aware, develop a sense of detachment and with this sense of detachment, you will also become more aware of yourself.

My take on any awareness practices including ADA, mindfulness or RCs is similar to what mimihigurashi said. You don't have to practice it 24/7 just take it a bit slower and try to be more aware in general.

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Thanks for the reply. I think I might go with that idea and whenever I'm doing an RC, just become aware of my surroundings throughout the check and keep it going for a little bit afterwords. Since I only do RC's when I see a Dream Sign, something weird happens, or (this one is the most often time I do it) just at random times, then my awareness will be sporadic as well. I'm also continuing with the awareness technique Sageous suggested, so I'll also be getting self awareness as well. Hopefully being aware of my surroundings for just a little bit each time I RC will help me to get more vivid dreams as well.

I don't think ADA is strictly essential, I've never been successful at it and yet, I have lucid dreams. Of course you can't go around like a zombie, like someone said, and expect to luciddream, but if you have sporadic sparks of lucidity and you couple them with mantras and a WBTB routine, I'm quite sure you can be just as successful at LD in the long run. But obviously, when it comes to dreams every person is different.

Mainly for LDing you need:

1) Prospective memory( MILD): It's your precious mental alarm clock that notifies you of your intention to become lucid while in a dream. Train it, nourish it, fix it on the intentions to become lucid, it it will build with time to become a very effective inducer.

2) Critical Mind: You should be able to see the world more critically: You should always know that you might be dreaming, even right now, no matter how real everything seems. If you've had a few LDs, you'll know what I'm talking about. Without this, it's hard to become lucid since believing this is a dream will be unlikely, even if the intention comes.

Of course RCs is the way to go, and adopt the mindset that anytime you might actually find out you're actually inside a dream. Any RC would work, just do it sincierly, but don't do it more than you'd be comfortable doing. No need for a rush, we are altering a mindset after all, and it shouldn't be annoying.

3) Dream Recall: Right your dreams down, every detail you can remember. The more, the stronger your memory will be. A stronger recall means more detailed and life like, vivid dreams for you, since you wake up with their memory, like any other experience in life.

4) DAT placebo effect: You know dream control is believing you can do it. You can stay lucid, increase vividness and details, and control stuff if you believe you can, cuz dreams work with your expectations.

There are lots of neat tricks to start with until you've reached a strong ability to believe easily, like:
_Imagine your in a holodeck, or a videogame you can control, or whatever...
_Assign yourself a private dream guide. This DC will be like your assistant, or like that 2nd in charge whatever that you command if your an officer (?)... you get it. Just you say, and the DG does (of course since this DC is assigned as your DG, then you expect him/her to do what you say. This is why this is effective. This is almost the same as the first tip.
_Well, anything else you can imagine that makes it easier to believe..be creative.

5) Self awareness: I'm not very good at grasping this. What does it mean to be aware of your self? Being mindful means being able to 'see', 'track', 'be aware of', etc what's going on in your perspective. It means being able to see your reactions, and not just be drifted away with them. I hope you understand what I mean by "see your reactions". Just Google "being mindful", I do urge you to study this. Also learn how to train it, of course. It's usually through meditation, a certain type I think.. I suck at explaining this, but glad I don't need to, you can google it. Lots of stuff about it, it's not just a LDing thing.
Of course, mindfulness is very useful for LDing.

It's also known that training self awareness means being more aware of your existence, existence in the now as a unique separate individual with your own impact and effects. I've tried to understand and study why this works, but as I said, I'm bad at it. You're supposed to be more prone to realizing that the dream world you're in is your own creation if you're more self aware. I fail to see the relation though, since even waking life is a reality that exists within us, in our brains, only differs from dreams cuz it builds the world using the map from stimuli, not the map from memory/creativity. But, I'm no scientist, so may well be just speculating the ice without looking at the more precise science behind it.

(Anyone can link a scientific article(s) about this? Or is it like a vast subject in itself requiring more than just a few articles?(maybe a book?)))

All in all, prospective memory is the main tool. Practice recall and control and you'll be a master if you commit (since MILD proved it's power in creating expertise numerous times). Don't forget to train your prospective memory and critical mind, and heads up: take it easy; don't frustrate, expect too much(it takes time), and most importantly, DON'T count your LD rate as progress, because you're always getting better, even if your rate is terrible (since prospective memory,recall and critical thinking are like muscles, every minute of training improves them). Don't frustrate, it you'll burn your fuses, trust me!

LDing 4 Eva!! ÒwÓ

^^Very detailed post...I've been told all that stuff before numerous times as well, but its always nice to have a good refresher for your mind :P That's one of the most detailed post I've ever received on all those things together so thank you for that. And for self awareness, I tried the mindfulness before but didn't really like it very much and I don't think it really fit me personally. (And I do understand what you're talking about when you're trying to explain the mindfulness) I do Sageous's RRC as I really like it and you don't have to keep it up all day. Since I really enjoy that I think it would be more effective for me than mindfulness.

I agree with everything louaiS said.

On his number one bullet point about intent, make up a mantra you repeat as you're laying in bed waiting for dreams.

"I will lucid dream tonight"
"I will remember my dreams"

Are two examples. As far as I can tell you can personalize these so it fits your personality.

I look at RCs like sending out resumes. You're better of personalizing 20 resumes per specific job opening ( taking your time doing RCs, and staying focused) versus spamming 100s of resumes out to employees.

Of course, find the middle ground, balance!

Yeah the important thing is not to stress about it too much, but mindfulness is a fundamental LDing aspect, so even if you're not co,for table with it, it still does it's job and benefits.

But again, the most important thing is prospective memory and the mindset you work on (you know, pretend you're in a dream and act the way you would want to in a LD; staying calm, being focused, increasing vividness and concentration, control, etc.)

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Originally Posted by Sharpshoey

Yep I am doing all of those things right now. I've never heard you talk about expectation/intentions though. Could you explain that to me? And also, right now I'm not saying a mantra when I do RC's or at anytime. I saw in a later lesson in your WILD class you have a mantra section. Should I wait until then to start using a mantra. (I know your class is about WILD, but the techniques also help with DILD as well so I'm assuming the mantra would)

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I did discuss expectation/intention to some degree in the Lucid Dreaming Fundamentals thread, but you'd probably have to wade pretty far in to find out what was discussed. I guess for me expectations and intentions are fairly self-explanatory, and looking beyond their "face value," or the commonly held definitions of them, is likely looking too deeply. Because of that, I don't talk much about them. And because of that, what you already know about expectations and intentions is likely correct. Also, as the least necessary and least difficult fundamental, I guess I might have given expectation/intention a bit of a short shrift. If you can't find sufficient info about it on the Fundamentals thread, then feel free to ask me about it there and I will elaborate as best I can.

One thing I will say is why I put them together as a single fundamental: I do this because they are pretty much the same thing, offering up the same possible results in the dream (i.e., your dreaming mind will provide you with schemata that correspond with your expectations from the day's thoughts using about the same mechanisms, I think, that it uses to provide you with schemata based on intentions set just before sleep. Even setting intentions for prospective memory is swimming in the same mental pool as expectation). Their difference, to me, is that expectation tends to be automatic, while intention tends to be, well intentional. One is a passive mean, the other an active mean, but they both lead to similar ends.

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: Also Sageous, while I'm here I might as well ask you another question I've been wondering about. Instead of doing RRC's, what do you think of all day self awareness things. Like what is described in this thread http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...-my-twist.html I'm pretty sure you said you could do "ADSA" but would there be more benefits from that than from the RRC, since you're doing it all day?

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I think all-day self-awareness is an outstanding goal, and one which I share (and haven't yet come close to achieving, BTW). If you find a routine, technique, or program that inspires or helps maintain sincere self-awareness, then try it out -- and Oneup does seem to offer some good advice and guidelines. And, of course, if you eventually achieve a level of self-awareness that spans your waking-life, the value of RRC's would be completely eclipsed and obviously be no longer necessary.

Keep in mind also that RRC's were a self-awareness/memory exercise meant specifically to dovetail with WILD practice; there are many other and more general mindfulness regimens out there that focus (or is it unfocus?) better on building your overall self-awareness (Samadhi yoga and Vipassana meditation come to mind as examples), and if you ever achieve a level of sincere self-awareness that lasts all day, you will likely have encountered them, and things like RRC's will be left far behind and likely long-forgotten.