Thinking Aloud: Dream Recall / Lucidity

This morning I was writing on my dream journal when the memory of a different, longer dream came to my attention. I probed my mind a little further and realized there was more to its length than I initially expected. But its memory felt a bit foreign to me. It was distant and, more importantly, I couldn't put myself fully in the experience of dreaming it. On looking back to many of the accounts I've jotted down throughout the years, I noticed most of them follow a similar pattern. The dreams, which are always non-lucid, are ones I feel as a retelling of events I didn't participate in. A "you weren't there" sort of thing. Intrigued, I took a memory trip down the more memorable dreams and found almost all of them followed a different pattern prior to becoming aware.

These are dreams I can actively recall as being there on the spot while they were happening. There's a level of awareness occurring while the dream unfolds, an awareness that exists even if the dream is still, non-lucid. You are right there in the midst of it all, and it is this "living the dream" what I believe helps us reach the threshold for lucidity.

A dream I had yesterday, were a reality check came knocking on my door, revealed a similar pattern. Dreams that come close to being lucid yet fail, walk the same line as those that succeed. In these dreams my dream-self is more inclined to initiate the reality check. The intent to question the experience arises. It is brief, but dreams that reach lucidity are oftentimes born from that intent. There's an 'I' in that dream.

Unfortunately I cannot say the same for the rest of my non-lucid attempts. Why didn't I reality check in these dreams, why are the results of practice nowhere to be seen? Perhaps I was never there to prove my worth! If you were not there, how can you fight back non-lucidity? It's like failing a test you never took. In these dreams there is no 'I'. It doesn't look like a dream Silence took part in.

Many times it makes reading the night's feedback more confusing. Days left questioning if the amount of exercises are enough. Are the reality checks the issue? Or is it the daily questioning, about not being aware? These are doubts I see reflected in many beginners like myself as well. But what do I tell them?

I reason "oh you weren't mindful enough during the day", or "oh you need to have a more critical mindset." But if I never set foot in the dream presently how can I know? I can see the lesson in the dreams were I get close but fail. The reality check popped up but you didn't act on it? Well, there's an area of improvement. Were you present but never tested your surroundings? Now we can agree your reality testing needs work. The ability to retain presence while in a non-lucid dream is what leaves me scratching my head. Even awareness comes to the surface if I do retain presence. In the majority of lucid dreams I never actually get to test the reality check as I already know I'm dreaming!

Anyway, just felt like thinking aloud today. If anyone wants to chime in, go for it.

I concur. I would also describe my experience this way.

Yet, if you experienced seeing red in a dream, you did experience it consciously... simply with dulled mental faculties, and dulled memory (you're sleeping)...unless the dream is a false memory created after dreaming (probably not always the case).

I guess what you're saying is possible... what you are saying is that you were not conscious during the dream, you simply have access to memories of experiences that you never experienced first hand and your waking consciousness simply constructs the experience for the first time from the "memory" and also constructs the sense of having been there consciously.

That's really interesting but I lean toward the mind simply being more dull during those non-lds. And yes, I agree, our mind is often already clear enough not to need an RC when we become lucid.

I totally agree with you @Occipitalred. I don't think these dreams are false memories. They did happen obviously, and you expressed my train of thought better than I could. It is exactly as you say, the perception is different compared with a recording from first hand experience.

I took a shot last night and spent about 30 min. before bed rereading my most recent journal entries. I even played them out (literally) and pretended I got lucid. This morning, I remembered a whole of 5 dreams and I remember being present in every one of them. I also drank plentifully last night so the dreams recalled were fragmented.

Perhaps retaining presence during a dream or increase its vividness (I guess you could call it like that) involves further training in dream recall. When I began writing my dreams, I was only content with remembering more than one dream every morning. Retaining presence might be a subset of dream recall and a revision of it over only waking up and writing one's dreams.

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Originally Posted by Silence11

Perhaps retaining presence during a dream or increase its vividness (I guess you could call it like that) involves further training in dream recall. When I began writing my dreams, I was only content with remembering more than one dream every morning. Retaining presence might be a subset of dream recall and a revision of it over only waking up and writing one's dreams.

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I think that's where meditation comes in. Helping with clarity and stability.

Although, I love your idea of playing out your dreams and changing them into lucid dreams. I haven't done that, but I have gone for walks where I pretend I'm dreaming, and RC often. I'm amazed at how I can trick myself into not being sure whether or not I'm actually awake.

Have you ever tried dream re-entry?

I need to get back to meditation. I did a session two nights ago. If only for the benefit to one's overall health that's more than enough reason to keep at it.

You should try playing them out more often @Moonage. I think the feel of physically rehearsing makes things more real. At least, that's what I think. I will repeat again tonight and the next. I'll do it for the whole month just to see where it leads.

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Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream

Have you ever tried dream re-entry?

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I may be a bit behind on what dream re-entry means. Are you talking of times when a dreamer wakes up from a dream, then stays still enough to "enter" a newly formed dream? Did I get that right?

I can only speak of occasions were I've accidentally done it. It usually happens during the last hours of sleep before I wake. While recalling the past dream's plot in my mind I seep back to sleep and dream again. I haven't gotten them lucid, but I also have not personally tried to. I can look into that.

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Originally Posted by Silence11

I may be a bit behind on what dream re-entry means. Are you talking of times when a dreamer wakes up from a dream, then stays still enough to "enter" a newly formed dream? Did I get that right?

I can only speak of occasions were I've accidentally done it. It usually happens during the last hours of sleep before I wake. While recalling the past dream's plot in my mind I seep back to sleep and dream again. I haven't gotten them lucid, but I also have not personally tried to. I can look into that.

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I asked about dream re-entry because Robert Moss talks about it in his books, he also talks about what you described (reenacting the dream). Apparently, reenacting dreams is a Native American spiritual practice in some tribes.

Anyways, dream re-entry is different from holding still and going into a new dream (I love that, though, best way to get lucid!). Honestly, it blew my mind, I didn't think it was possible until I did it.

You can re-enter dreams you've already had. Especially recent ones, those are much easier, and ones that didn't finish (say you got awoken early).


So basically, to do it, you're going to make an intention to go back into the dream, it's helpful if you have a purpose (like, sometimes there's a detail you want to know more about. What was that object the DC was holding in her hands, for instance?). Then you are going to use active imagination to visualize yourself in the dream location. If you do this in early morning REM time, you can get into the dream again, even days after you had the dream.

I find that even if you don't get into the dream, or if it's like in the middle of the day, you can still garner information from the dream through the active imagination process. You just need to be looking for, and very sensitive to, subtle input from Source. So, you're basically doing a visualization, but it's all you. Then, if you're very sensitive, you may notice something in it that wasn't from you. An object, a person, etc.


Anyways, it's fun.