Are These Dreamlets?

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10-03-2020, 12:05 AM
Silence11

Are These Dreamlets?

Hey there, I need some clarification on things that have happened to me this week.

So, today I WBTB an hour early before usual. I didn't stay up long, maybe a couple of minutes at best, then went back to bed. As I did, I wasn't entirely sure I would fall asleep, what with insomnia making it difficult to relax and being so close to finishing my normal sleep schedule, but I tried nonetheless. As predicted, I kept tossing and turning for long, until suddenly I began dreaming, or at least, that's what it looked like to me after I "woke up" from it.

The scene I saw wasn't particularly noteworthy, just me observing someone getting chased by some people. As this "dream" progressed I found myself taking part in it, non-lucidly playing along with the plot. And then... I woke up, only it didn't feel exactly like any normal wake up. This thing felt different. It wasn't so much as a waking up but more like going through a seamless transition. One moment I'm dreaming some scene and the very next I find myself still turning and tossing about as if I never actually slept. I've never felt a transition as smoothly as this before. It's as if I almost didn't loose consciousness from leaping from wake-to-sleep-to-dream. It left me confused throughout the rest of the morning. Also, during the first part of this "dream" I'm confident I could've become aware of what was happening if I tried, while at later sections I was completely non-lucid.

The other time took place this last Tuesday. Now this one is even weirder to me because it lasted the whole night. I went to bed as usual but couldn't manage to sleep no matter how hard I tried, or so I thought. I kept constantly tossing and turning, and then I would imagine these scenes as if in a dream, and again transition rather seamlessly into wakefulness without as much as a stutter between the two states. I never felt a moment of actual sleep, a passing of unconsciousness as one might expect. Quite opposite, I was becoming extremely frustrated because the hours kept piling up and I thought I wasn't getting any sleep at all! I must've had about 6 or 7 of these instances by morning.

When the sun rose, I had completely given up and dreaded the rest of the day to be miserable, dealing with what I thought was a pretty big case of sleep deprivation. But, to my surprise, I felt quite rested! I resumed life utterly confused about what had happened. Still, I was convinced something like this could not last long enough to dodge the inevitable consequences of lack of sleep the longer I went with my day, but it never came. Come night, I went to bed as usual and this time I slept normally like any other day.

Now, obviously I must've fallen asleep at some point in the night without my knowing. It just weirds me out how it all played out. Additionally, I don't know if this is worth pointing out, but I've been taking meditation a lot more seriously this past couple of months. This week in particular, has seen me increasing my normal meditative sessions from the previous month, the effects of which I've beginning to see bleeding into my daily life. Although, I don't know if that has anything to do with this. Should I act on these instances or ignore them? In many of these I become aware of what they are a bit late. I think, oh wait this is a dream, only to realize I am already awake.

I researched around for a bit and came about some threads talking about dreamlets, so I figured this might be a similar case, but you never know. Better safe to ask.
10-03-2020, 02:04 AM
DarkestDarkness

This sounds strangely familiar to me but the last time it happened will have been many years ago now, at least about ten or more years ago...

I have a vague recall of instances where I couldn't sleep (but not sure why now) and during which I would have phases where I would be having those visually imagined scenes where things just run-on by themselves. I think this predates any of my dream journaling though, so I can't say anything with much certainty about my experiences anymore, other than the fact that this seems familiar, especially in regards to not actually feeling like I'd fallen asleep, except by the end of the sleep period usually.

About the meditation, my first guess wouldn't be that it relates directly to what you're experiencing, but I wouldn't immediately exclude it either.

When do you usually practice your meditation, and for how long?

In any case, if the situation doesn't change/keeps recurring, then my advice would be to try and accept (in the moment) that tossing and turning and obsessing about sleeping will make no difference, so you may try to (in a sense) "give in". I'm not sure that makes sense in the way I worded it, but I guess what I mean is if you are feeling helpless and/or frustrated, it may be that some of that is coming from having an expectation, namely about "needing" the sleep.

It might also be worth asking, are you using any supplements or are you on any medication?
10-03-2020, 04:36 PM
RelicWraith

Oh, I have those experiences regularly, practically every day (though very rarely all night; usually, they're compressed to the last hour or two of sleep). I'm not sure if it's because of similar criteria (I suffer from insomnia as well, and I do indeed meditate regularly).

In any case, the answer I could give to the topic title is 'probably'. Frustrating, I know. It is for me as well. You see, dreamlets, much like hypnagogia/hypnapompia, don't actually have to take place during sleep. Dreamlets are really just like daydreams, if more vivid, and localized in (near) sleep states. However, it's quite possible that you've experienced dreamlets that have transitioned to dreams without even knowing as much. In fact, I'm almost certain that's what happened a few times during your all-night bout of (partially false) insomnia.

The transition from dreamlets to dreams can be seamless, so it's not always easy to detect. There's really only one way to know for sure: a thorough reality test.

I hope this gives some insight.
10-03-2020, 09:27 PM
Silence11

Thank you both for the advice.

I want to start with a little update: Today, I had another one of these instances occurring, in the morning. The transition was so inconspicuous it took me several minutes whilst trying to sleep before realizing I had already fallen asleep at some point without me knowing. I remembered another short dream.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkestDarkness

This sounds strangely familiar to me but the last time it happened will have been many years ago now, at least about ten or more years ago...

I have a vague recall of instances where I couldn't sleep (but not sure why now) and during which I would have phases where I would be having those visually imagined scenes where things just run-on by themselves.[...]I can't say anything with much certainty about my experiences anymore, other than the fact that this seems familiar, especially in regards to not actually feeling like I'd fallen asleep, except by the end of the sleep period usually.

Hmmm... curious to know what you think was the cause behind your experiences. As for me, the last time and only other time I remember living through something like this was about two years ago, and the only relationship that shared between this and the rest of events was a regular dedication to meditative practice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkestDarkness

When do you usually practice your meditation, and for how long?

So, I practice six days a week (Sunday to Friday) for about 90 minutes each day, spaced out in six 15-minute sessions throughout the day. Saturdays are rest days.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkestDarkness

It might also be worth asking, are you using any supplements or are you on any medication?

No supplements, no medication. I understand what you're trying to say, I guess frustration/helplessness comes with the territory. I've been living with insomnia for close to 10 years now, so it's pretty much expected. Giving in is the hardest thing to do, specially when falling asleep can take upwards from an hour to set in. It doesn't help much that I'm also a night owl, so if I don't have anything to do the next day, I can easily slip into 3 or 4 am. before heading to bed. But meditation has been working wonders right now. At least, I've seen the time it takes me to sleep has significantly reduced. Add to that a decrease in anxiety, an increase in dream length, presence and/or vividness; I couldn't ask for anything better.

You know, I did research people's experiences with meditation, primarily relating to the benefit in improved sleep quality and the need for less sleep overall. I don't know how far along into the practice must you be to benefit from these "side-effects", which is why I brought that up as a, potential cause.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RelicWraith

Oh, I have those experiences regularly, practically every day (though very rarely all night; usually, they're compressed to the last hour or two of sleep). I'm not sure if it's because of similar criteria (I suffer from insomnia as well, and I do indeed meditate regularly).

Well you and me both here: both insomniacs, both regular meditators. But every day, I think you would have to get used to something like this. I mean, the dreamlets themselves do not bother me, it is the apparent lack of perception of sleep which is new. If this turns into something regular (at least in the mornings) I guess I might have to get used to it, assuming it does become frequent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RelicWraith

In any case, the answer I could give to the topic title is 'probably'. Frustrating, I know. It is for me as well. You see, dreamlets, much like hypnagogia/hypnapompia, don't actually have to take place during sleep. Dreamlets are really just like daydreams, if more vivid, and localized in (near) sleep states. However, it's quite possible that you've experienced dreamlets that have transitioned to dreams without even knowing as much. In fact, I'm almost certain that's what happened a few times during your all-night bout of (partially false) insomnia.

The transition from dreamlets to dreams can be seamless, so it's not always easy to detect. There's really only one way to know for sure: a thorough reality test.

Yeah, I think I'm catching these dreams a few seconds after they've ended; I can't tell you how many times I've thought: I'm dreaming! after the fact, but then I'm already awake. The last time I almost did caught it before ending, I fell into REM atonia. From dreamlets to dreams, that's were I seem to lose consciousness and go in non-lucid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RelicWraith

I hope this gives some insight.

It does! Thank you both again for the suggestions and sharing of ideas, much appreciated!
10-04-2020, 10:03 PM
DarkestDarkness

I can't really guess at what was the cause of my own experiences because I don't even remember the experiences that well anymore... It's all a bit of a blur for some reason.

About the meditation, my only thought was that, if it was a prolonged session before bedtime or in the afternoon, maybe it could be having an effect, but it really doesn't sound like that's the case... You are probably the best judge of it, in any case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silence11

As for me, the last time and only other time I remember living through something like this was about two years ago, and the only relationship that shared between this and the rest of events was a regular dedication to meditative practice.

But let's say I suggest you try changing your practice, for example, by playing around with session number and length or let's say I suggest stopping your practice for a small amount of time. I think there's a risk that the situation may indeed change, but not because the practice was the cause, but because you expected the change to solve the issue, and so the issue could potentially be resolved but at an unnecessary cost of your meditative practice. Or maybe it is the cause, but as I say above, I think you'd be the best judge of that, so to make changes wouldn't be my immediate advice for now... I could make more guesses as to why meditation might be affecting your sleep, but honestly, it would be anecdotal at best and I am no expert anyway.

I remain unsure on what might be helpful advice for you right now. And come to think of it, maybe my previous advice wasn't too helpful, because I do understand this type of frustration too and I've often let myself get frustrated even when I know better. But like you said yourself, if you find this becomes the norm for you, I believe you should be able to adapt to it anyway or at least get closer to identifying the issue properly.

As for insomnia, I have had sleep problems for a long time and they are caused by my health issues, but that's also the main reason I take supplements/medication. But unlike the two of you, I have never gotten into any sort of rhythm with meditation, so I was never able to see clearly for myself whether there I had any effects (positive or negative) on my sleep for it.