Question About REM and Lucid Dreaming

Alright so I saw this signature in the forums.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/hac_2003/Kamaa/stagessig.gif

From this I infer that REM happens right before phase one? Last night I was trying the WILD method and this happened to my eyes.

From my dream journal

Quote:

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Suddenly I felt very heavy, my eyes started to close and then move very rapidly. *I know that REM sleep is not probable at this time of night, or so I believe but the best way it can be described is as though you are in REM but you are aware that your eyes are moving and twitching. *The outside world faded and the noise was gone.[/b]

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I do now know much about REM sleep, was this it? Is that possible? I felt very awake but I had no control over the movement of my eye/eye lids.

Well first of all that scheme doesn't seem to be very accurate. REM periods get longer throughout the night and that graphic shows them identical all lasting for the same amount of time.

Secondly, both REM sleep and hypnagogia are accompanied by independant thought. If you experienced neither a dream or independant conceptual thought then it seems to be more likely that you experienced sleep paralysis and were still awake.

Lastly, as distinguished before but not confirmed: if you did experience conceptual thought (or imagery/sound/etc. if you can't tell them for what they really are yet) then it may have been hypnagogia, which brings up more controversy considering that even though many think that REM sleep "shouldn't occur at such a time", WILDers and those experienced with hypnagogia will say not only that REM sleep can occur at that time but also that it's not very correct (and I share this opinion) to draw a strict line between hypnagogia and dreaming, after all they are both states of independant thoughts evolving and changing due to certain logic.

Your answer was very helpful, thank you! After the eye movement I then experienced this.

Dream journal

Quote:

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I then reached the area of the experience that I had reached the night before. Before my eyes I saw large spinning wheels made of shards. They were colorful circular patterns that moved around like a wheel. They were gorgeous, tons of them moving at the same time getting bigger and then smaller. They were solid colors not changing, the best way I can describe it is like looking through a kaleidoscope. They began to fade away, most likely because I was so intent on staying awake.[/b]

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To attain these visuals it usually takes a long amount of time. The night before when I did the same thing I experienced this:

Dream journal

Quote:

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There is unexpectedly a burst of motion on my eyes. I see the running motion, slowly I can focus in on it. It is a running creature, but more of spikes that are put together that are moving. Then it explodes in color, it is man colors constantly changing. I wrote down that it was pink, purple, and had many spikes. [/b]

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I did not feel “asleep” in either experiences but I do not remember feeling awake if that makes any sense. Another thing that I did not mention in my second experience was that when my eyes were closed there was a period of time where my vision was "shacking", and "trembling". It looked like plan propeller. I believe that counts as imagery. I do not believe I was asleep.


Both these times I was aware of myself not being truley asleep but rather tranced? Another thing that I did not mention in my second experince was that when my eyes were closed there was a period of time of my vision "shacking", and "trembling". It looked like plan propeler.

I found this one that may be a little more accurate:

http://science.education.nih.gov/sup...info_fig04.gif

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