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Heylo,
After a bit of surfing on the internet I found this, and it claims to be able to create HI and project you into a WILD. Logically it seems like it *should* work. But, I was wondering if someone was willing to try it, I'm just too lazy to actually try at the moment. :P
Good luck if you decide to try it out . . .
~ Haz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haz
Heya Haz,
yeah since I am somewhat of a spiritual entheogen loving kaleidoscope trip hippy I am familiar with The DreaMachine.
Actually the initial design was made out of round folded cardboard with a pattern of cut out holes. This round cardboard ''pipe'' with holes in it would then be placed on a Turntable with a certain tours/p/minute of speed. Then a lightbulb goes in the middle of the cardboard pipe ( suspended from above ) and the Turntable is switched on. The light of the lightbulb through the spinning holes in the cardboard on your closed Eyelids produce rapidly moving and pretty immersive vivid colorswirls and patterns in your field of visions. It stimulates your HI incredibly: I was surprised to find my eyes move in an REM fashion right away!
Let me tell you a little Secret : Since the Rate of the Lightflashes is the only thing that counts, and the rate should be somewhere between 8 and 13 flashes per second: A Stroboscope flashing light will do the same trick just as easily ( provided it can be switched to a rate bewteen 8 and 13 flashes per second ) :wink: Set the Stroboscope to somewhere between 8 and 13 flashes p/second and hold itabout 10 cm away from your CLOSED eyelids and you'll observe quite a kaleidoscopic disco :content:
Stroboscopes are widely available and I got one from a cathalog for a very low price at the time.
Yeah I have one of those stroboscope things. Though nothing that fancy. You can probably get it really cheap at a party supply store. I'm pretty sure I can get it in between 8 and 13 flashes/sec. It has a little nob that I can turn. What would be the best way to use this? I know to keep it like 10 cm from your face but what do I do? Just create a dreamscape and go into it? Mabye use it with WBTB?
What is this really 'spose to do ?
Is it easier to got a WILD with it ?
Because, its hard to sit on the chair and fall sleep
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared
WELL, actually I have done it several times, with the same type of Strobo-light you used( with turnable nob )
The ''weird'' thing is that when you place it in front of your closed eyelids while flashing it Immedaitely GREATLY stimulates The Hypnagogic Imagery and Usually I find my eyes shaking around like crazy: Just like I'm in REM-sleep. The Hypnagogic Imagery is very vivid, especially when the flashes are fastest (13 flashes per Second) You can see very intricate, colorfull spinning kaleidoscopic patterns appear. the longer you look the more vivid and immersive this Imagery becomes. I've done it for about 30 minutes nonstop sometimes.
However During this experience and when you stop and open your eyes you are not the slightest bit disorientated or unconciouss-like....You're fully aware and concious. It is Not at all Altering your State of Mind. And THAT'S what interrests me: You maintain the same Clearminded, Waking state of Mind .
I have tried putting it next to my bed,flashing in front of my closed eyes and falling asleep like that: Too bad I turn alot in my sleep.
It might be an interresting way to try and induce a dream while being fully awake and aware. It'd be the easiest form of WILD ever. But then I need to figure out if it's possible to furtherly develop this hypnological imagery into a real DREAM. Perhaps more Stimuli are needed to induce a dream than just the Stroboscope light.
But this has certainly drawn my attention: ''Artifically'' stimulating your Hypnagogy and Inducing a Visually immersive and interactive dream while being fully awake: Perhaps with help of some form of Deep Hypnosis + the Stroboligth + More things that may Artificially induce an REM-sleep DreamState .
Any thoughts on this?
PS: This Topic just Inspired me to Write Another Topic on Stimulating Hypnagogic Imagery and Inducing Dreams while fully awake....
Well that do indeed sound interesting. I've never done an intended WILD so far, so it might be worth a try.
Can anybody report success with this "machine" ?
Had anyone tried this online dreamachine yet ?
Successfully of course :wink:
If you have, how much time did it take you before you started seeing
shapes & colours dance the boogie with eachother :yumdumdoodledum: :content: ?
Because I don't think its working for me...
Thanks !
Well, I often fall asleep near my computer. I could start it up and keep it running.
But what color and speed do they recommend?
They should call this the seizure machine :|
I don't see how a colorful strobe light is supposed to help you WILD. The only "evidence" I've read so far of this has been hearsay and rumor. The HI that I experience when attempting to WILD doesn't even look anything like this. And many people don't even experience HI while WILDing. This all seems like quite a hopeful stretch to me. Hey, on this train of logic, maybe if you ingested a kind of poison that leaves for body paralyzed for a while, it would be kind of like sleep paralysis, and it would help you WILD! Yeah! Sounds good right! :rolleyes:
When are people going to learn that finding an unnatural aid (drugs, devices, etc) for the natural process of lucid dreaming is simply not the answer? I suppose around the same time that people stop looking for a miracle weight-loss pill...
Anyway, if someone actually manages some success with this dream machine, let us know how it goes, but as someone who's had a handful of seizures in the past, I'll leave the "experimentation" to you guys...
Well, the default "10Hz" is the best. 8 - 13 is recommended, since it puts your brain into alpha wave state. It's like listening to some certain noises, but instead of sound-stimulation, we use visual-stimulation. It works for me, as I get tired when looking at it.
I just tried looking at it for a minute. It makes me really stressed out, and mildly noxious, so needless to say, I didn't like it.
Color doesn't seem to mind ( allthough it may have some different unknown effect ) Just a light flashing on your closed eyelids at a rate somewhere between 8 and 13 Flashes per Second.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo
Some ''Clearvoyants'' used to sit atop of a tower looking into the sun with eyes closed and fingers infront of the sun so they would project a shadow over their Closed eyelids. Then they would flicker their fingers: letting light pass and blocking it, creating a rapid ligh flashing on your Closed eyelids. Your eyes then pick this up as Visual input and as they are closed it seems to start a vivid Hypnagogic show. Same idea
Nothing too mindblowing but certainly interresting.Moving colorfull planes, swirls and patterns. Doing this for a long period of time made me feel a little weirded out.
I can't sit through it. My eyes go insane.
Yeah you know we should of never invented the car or the airplane .We still should be riding horseback . HeheQuote:
Originally Posted by DuB
ok...i didnt see wtathat last statement had to do with anything so ill ignore it. I tried teh machine just now and i can sit through it easily, all the light sort of fades in to one flickering color (if u close ur eyes). I think this might help u have a lucid dream but im really a newb and havnt really tried much...so yea, my advice is kind of useless...for now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuB
Wo wo WOW! Duuude, relax :content: . It was only a suggestion. And as far as I know there already IS a very potent ARTIFICIAL way of Inducing Dreams while fully awake: Hypnosis. Deep hypnosis.
Sometimes PoliceForces Use HYPOTISERS to hypnotise Victims and Witnesses that suffer from (Post-Traumatic) Amnesia. This way they can emerge the victim/witness into his/her subconciousself, and by RELIVING the experience again REACH the Memory about a certain Crime that they had previously forgotten due to amnesia:
It IS possible to induce a Dreaming State: A subconcious visual, detailed Dreamlike state is what we call Hypnosis. So I was just looking for more Atrificial ways to stimulate REM-sleep, if possible to lead me into a dream Conciously, and if not then it would still make up for quite a Hypnagogic Psychedelic Spectacle.
Just like there are hypnotic Sleep aid medications and Hypnotic Sleep Induction Techniques ( Handy dandy for Insomniacs like me ) I found out how Smoking weed also greatly boosts my HI and overal Imagination.
I just wanted to experiment a little with several conditions that stimulate Hypnagogia added up to eachother.
I can't say it works, it's merely a speculation, but I'm an experimenting person so how do you spose I find out if there are simple ways to greatly Stimulate Hypnagogia? Perhaps just before bedtime. I want to find out that Which SCIENCE hasn't been experimenting thoroughly yet. Bless Experiementation: 2/3 of alll Human Knowledge was achieved by furtherly investigating controversial Speculations, so I'd say to the Lucid People here: Experiment away, Science will go it's course, and in the Meanwhile God knows what some people may Find out during their own Personal Dreaming-Experiments: I'm open to other people's suggestions and Findings.
and PS: I really DID see very intricate and Vivid Hypnagogic Imagery while using this DreaMachine technique ( a Strobo-light )
Just a quick question. Has anyone attempted to use a strobe or dream machine after being asleep for 5-7 hours?
I get the impression you guys are just lying down in the middle of the day or right before bed and trying this, right?
Someone please do this in conjunction with other WILD induction techniques and let me know what happens. Should be interesting.
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Originally Posted by SKA
Actually this is not true at all. The closest you could get to a "dream" is a vivid daydream. And in fact, some hypnosis techniques utilize no visualization whatsoever. Hypnosis is defined as:Quote:
Originally Posted by SKA
Dictionary.com - An artificially induced altered state of consciousness, characterized by heightened suggestibility and receptivity to direction.
Howstuffworks.com - It is a trance state characterized by extreme suggestibility, relaxation and heightened imagination. It's not really like sleep, because the subject is alert the whole time. It is most often compared to daydreaming, or the feeling of "losing yourself" in a book or movie. You are fully conscious, but you tune out most of the stimuli around you. You focus intently on the subject at hand, to the near exclusion of any other thought.
The fact is, the state of hypnosis is basically the same as meditation. The only thing that really separates the two is that hypnosis is usually done with a specific purpose in mind (and sometimes with the help of a hypnotist), while meditation is simply lingering in that altered mind-state.
Hypnosis can be used, as you say, for retrieving distant or blocked-out memories. However, this can only be done in very deep hypnosis, and it should be noted that the majority of the population cannot be hypnotized this deeply - I've heard it estimated to be about 1 in 20 people. Hypnosis CAN NOT, on the other hand, be used to "induce dreams while fully awake."
And yeah, experimentation is great, experimentation makes the scientific world go round. But seizures are not great. And so, for that reason, I leave the experimentation to you guys. Try not to choke on your tongues, eh? :D
I use the light and sound machine called Luma 10 (blue led goggles). I've done quite a bit of testing with WILD and light and sound. I can't say the light and sound has cause any more lucids or HI's. I tried entering lucids using light and sound from the Ganzfeld settings (sound and light deprevation); when using the light goggles I had no success. But when using sound and just a regular sleep mask (to block out light) I was able to WILD. Interesting. Although the mind-machine has produced some HI's every now and then. I mostly use it for meditation and relaxation. It's gets you to that target state (Alpha, Beta, Theta, Delta) pretty fast which is nice.
Yeah actually this Technique, or ANY Technique to Increase Hypnagogia, should be most effective when the NATURAL Hypnagogia is at it's Strongest: How about doing this, or any other Hypnagogia Stimulating Technique, after awakening from 5 hours of Sleep? Isn't that when the NATURAL Hypnagogia is still Strongest while we are awake? And also after falling asleep again you should be in a light light sleep so that you eyes may more Easily pick up the, Extrernal, Light Impulses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seeker
Is anyone with me for some experimentation on this? Wake up 5 hours after having Fallen asleep. Meditate and take a leak. Then back to bed, put the Stroboscope/DreaMachine on and before your Closed eyelids to see if it Increases and Furtherly Stimulates the Natural Hypnagogia. Then fall asleep again.
Maybe later one could Try adding more things and techniques that Stimulate Hypnagogia to the Stroboscope-HI stimulation Technique.
If the device recorded dreams to a DVD, then I'd be more impressed.
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Originally Posted by Haz
Guys, I would REALLY welcome a tutorial on this topic. Not just a couple of paragraphs though, instead some detailed instruction with examples and setup tips for the various devices.
I would have to agree. DELIBERATELY stimulating your Hypnagogia in a Certain, Specific way, Could Possibly lead you to recognise Deliberately Induced DReamSigns and thus attain Lucidity. I see a very potential ILD-technique arising from this Topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seeker
One that makes use of External Hypnagogia-Boosting Techniques before (and possibly while) sleeping.
I wouldn't reccommend that seeker...Quote:
Originally Posted by Seeker
This "dreamachine" is just a "HI machine", there's no way this could help at all with dreaming, if you put a tutorial on the site there's no doubt you would be causing at least one person to have a seizure and likely get hurt fairly badly.
HI isn't what makes you have the dreams... HI is just something some people see long before they get into the dream, Take it from me, I've never once seen "rolling colorful geometric shapes", and I've been WILDing for over a year. HI has barely anything to do with WILDing, its just something some people see on the way to SP.
Again please don't make a tutorial for this, its potentially extremely dangerous, and there's absolutely no evidence that it leads to LDs
^ Seconded.
Where did the idea of a tutorial even come from? I mean, so far NOBODY has had any success with this. :wtf:
This reminds me of that feeling I get when I am juuust loosing consiousness where I see like flashes and I feel like my head is spinning. I think it could possibly work if I could somehow hold my computer moniter up to my face when I sleep :)
Photosonix actually sales mind machines, they have a disclaimer and they've been in business a while now (quite successfully I might add).Quote:
Originally Posted by DuB
I've had the pleasure of finding out for myself whether or not I can enter a lucid from a state such as this. As far a research is concerned, if your're not a risk (seizures, epileptics (sp)) everyone is free to experiment with something they think that may work for them. Research and experimentation helped me figure out what works best for me (that's why I joined the Research Team). If you don't want to try you don't have to... give other people a chance to experiment and test.
Thanks. :content:
That makes my eyes really blury and I just watched it for about five seconds.
I'm pretty sure BrainWave Generator does the exact same thing, and it synchronises the strobing with the binaural beats. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Correct. You dont have to have the light pulses to use brainwave entrainment. I think the lights are distracting and just prefer the tone frequencies instead. Just use a dark sleep mask and play your audio file generated from whatever program (BWG, BBS, NP etc). Again to each his own...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess
Cheers! :)
Erm BrainWave Gen does nothing to me but making me feel uneasy a bit. I haven't fully researched and understood it's working. it's supposed to alter your Brainwaves to Alpha, Beta, Theta..etc state.Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenelai
However the DreaMachine or a Simple Stroboscope will do some pretty impressive things to your HI.
I've seen very intricate and intensely vivid HI using the Stroboscope light.
Now I might try and Cut out shapes of eyes, faces, people's sillhouettes..etc out of small Cardboard plates and place them over the Stroboscope light so they will Project certain images.
First I'll try projecting/flashing it at the ceiling in my dark bedroom before sleeping, then on my closed eyes. Perhaps my with my eyes closed my HI will ecognise and pick up these images.
IF that works that means I can somewhat Decide what my HI will show me. And hopefully lead it into my dreams. (perhaps the afterimage of such bright light remains long enough to incubate into a dream and in turn recognise it as a DreamSign.
Can't we get the Research team interrested for this?
I'm going to experiment away for sure. But if the Research team could carry out some effective research with this that the DreaMachine concept may be furtherly developed and possibly usefull for incubating dreams.