Wild/vild For Light Sleepers!

Hey everyone!

Just this morning, I gained lucidity twice through the WILD technique, with a bit of visualisation.
These were my third and fourth lucid dreams (all lucids I have had have been since I started looking up lucid dreaming). Unfortunately, I wasn't used to the sensation that only a minute ago, I was awake, so I had extremely short lucid dreams (but next time, i'll be ready!).

Anyway, first, I set the alarm (not autosuggestion, explanation why is later in this post) to 5 1/2 hours from when I got into bed. Since I was tired, it only took me 30 minutes for me to fall asleep. I woke up 5 hours later (yes, I aimed for the N-REM state, because I would find it easier to get my body back asleep).

I tried WILDing. The first time, I reached the throbbing and intense HI, but I found it awesome so I smiled, and that ruined it. The 2nd and 3rd time were both succesful though! In order to reach the sleep paralysis easily, I visualised me inside my last dream (the ruins of a tower), and while I was visualising, the SP happened.
It was safe for me to visualise because I don't fall asleep while trying to do something. Everytime I have failed a WILD would be due to frustration, never falling asleep.

Hints for light sleepers:

1) Aim for the N-REM state! Try to get as close as you can to REM without entering it. Also, try to go to bed dog-tired, so you can fall asleep and be as accurate (in terms of length of N-REM) as you can!

2) Visualise yourself in a dream! Try to just talk or jump around in the "daydream", and do't be scared of losing concentration, just remember that you are trying to achieve a WILD!

Hope this post helps, and good luck on feeling the amazing sensation of entering the dream state from waking! It feels really good! -Stoat

I will try this tonight. I ahve always tried setting the alarm for REM sleep, but I will see how this works. I do have trouble falling asleep, which plays great when trying to WILD...

Peace,
D&C

Thanks for the very helpful and less complicated advice Master Stoat. Seems like WILDing gets the most out of an LD. I will try... no... I WILL WILD tonight!

That's the spirit!

By the way, did I tell you that they were my first WILD's ever?
I remember reading that waking from N-REM makes you want to do nothing else but go back to sleep, so that is why the WILD should work much faster!

Good luck! -Stoat

Ok, I sleep very deeply, but I always find it hard to get back to sleep while doing a wild. I will try tonight... thanks so much!

Any tips for light sleepers who need to have their mind wander to fall asleep?

So did you transition directly into your daydream?

Dyermaker...

Kind of.... I daydreamed, and then I felt the gaint throbbing right near when you fall asleep, so I stopped daydreaming and looked at the hypnagogic imagery.
It turned out to be exactly where I was daydreaming.... So yeah, I kind of did transit directly into my daydream.


MegaBenMan, just do what I did (daydream, but tell yourself that you are attempting a WILD so you keep your mind awake).

That sounds good. I invariably need to let my mind wander to fall asleep and I'm a terrible sleeper, so I'll try this. Thanks.

Sounds good i have only had one wild and the LD lasted only 10 seconds then fell asleep again for 2 lucids which were DILDS after using WBTB which is my favourite :bigteeth: i remember i often got sleep paralsis but when i did realise i couldn't move i got an urge to move it wasn't very comfortable but next time i get one i'll let it turn into another wild

Thanks for the tips :bowdown:

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Originally Posted by Stoat

MegaBenMan, just do what I did (daydream, but tell yourself that you are attempting a WILD so you keep your mind awake).
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I can't do that.. for me, day dreaming means random crap, and as soon as I snap back into reality about what I'm doing right now I have to try and get back into that state.

Er... MegaBenMan..... carry out a daydream as you would a dream (1st person and all), and tell yourself that your doing WILD in the dream and not to lose conciousness, don't snap back to reality, just try to gently end the daydream. What happenedto me was I snapped out once I reached the giant throbbing sensation, and then the dream came 5 - 10 seconds later.

I've always had trouble falling alseep. Once Alseep I could sleep 8 hours non-stop. Lately with my Insomnia I'm having a complete lack of ''sleepyness'' some nights (as other nights I CAN get myself sleepy enough to fall asleep quickly) so generally I have a real hard time falling asleep. SP usually comes on really quick, when my body is at ease and I'm not tossing and turning too much, within 5 - 10 minutes, te rest of the sleeping process usually seems to take somewhat longer than an Hour :| And the Transition from Waking State into Sleep usually seems very suddenly: I black it out so I don't recall ''SLOWLY'' sliding into a sleep.
But lately, when I've been awoken or have to turn around during these advanced stages of WILD I notice how I already feeel kind of Hypnotised and Dreamy. Maybe if I keep it up I'll tackle my Insomnia completely and fall asleep slower and into a lighter sleep Resulting in more Vivid and Lucid dreams.

However my attempts on WILD seem to bring me closer and closer to the DreamWorld Conciously than ever before: HI advances into Just a buit more immersive and realistic than a daydream-scene. and more. I've tried serveral times to interact with a Scene if I could Visualise it in my HI: I found that the ''Dream'' or more the beginnings of what was to become one, were not solid and consistent enough to enter as a Dream yet. After that I still keep falling unconcious, but I seem to be getting closer day by day.


PS: a tip for people who have a har time falling asleep:

Find out what the cause of your Restlessness is first. I many cases, and my case too, I feel that Both my Mind and Body weren't ready for sleep and my Mind was much too active: Try and go over in ''Night-mode''. Get really READY for bed, take half an hour to spend alone in your room, and fully realise: ''this is bed time, sleeping time, dreaming time''. If you still find your Body too unrestfull, Tossing and Turning, or your Mind being too active and containing TOO many distracting or stressing thoughts:

WHAT TO DO IF YOUR MIND IS STILL TOO ACTIVE:
Get out of bed. Stop trying to fall Asleep. It's as you feel it, NOT gunna happen. Unless you Calm and Clear your Mind First: And trying to fall asleep while being so restless only results in frustration and more Restlessness.
Get up in bed and Meditate/Clear your Mind from any thoughts, take some time to REALLY relax. With some soft ambient music, incense, a cup of Tea and a fat joint....or whatever does it for you. Once your head is clear of Thoughts. Get into a really relaxing, spiritual Dreaming Mood and al awhile try to relax your entire body.


HOW TO RELAXE YOUR UNRESTFULL BODY:
*Taking a hot Shower is known to make you physically feel better and more at ease. Also Hot/warm water makes you drowsy and sleepier.
*Try and remember what Sleep Paralysis feels like: And then Induce it onto your body. Do so untill the ''tingeling'' sensation starts ( Usually in your feet ) and let it get ahold of your entire body: After that Process is Complete, which will do so automatically if you lay still, you will feel your body being very heay and feel somewhat removed from your Body.Like you way a 1000 tons.

If you never smoked pot BTW; THIS feeling is best compaired with being Physically STONED from Marijuana ;) Your Limbs become very heavy.
All the while, try keeping your Mind calm as well as your body. If you haven't yet moved into the position you Usually sleep, but you feel the SP already and know you could fall asleep the Position you're lying in: take that chance and do it. And don't get too distracted by Itch and such things. Scracth, don't give it too much thought and keep going where you were going with your eyes Closed.
(I can somehow tell myself that Itch is NOT annoying, but that it's like someone's hands are stroking my Skin and then I can actually most of the times make it feel good rather then annoying)

BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING: is that you are Calm and Clearminded FIRST before you can really relax your Body to fall asleep. A Chaotic, overActive Mind is often the cause of Insomnia

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Originally Posted by Stoat

Er... MegaBenMan..... carry out a daydream as you would a dream (1st person and all), and tell yourself that your doing WILD in the dream and not to lose conciousness, don't snap back to reality, just try to gently end the daydream. What happenedto me was I snapped out once I reached the giant throbbing sensation, and then the dream came 5 - 10 seconds later.
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I can't do that though, because then I actually have a slightly concious mind in my way and I won't be able to fall asleep. Maybe if I tried to play a song that tong me I was WILDing, it would unconciously soak into my thoats hmm..

This is all great advice, I tried WILDing for the first time a couple days ago and was just entering the sleep paralysis stage when I became scared/excited as the throbbing sensation started, but I could feel the heaviness of my body very distinctly. Like my body and limbs had turned into sandbags, a very unique sensation. Hopefully, I'll get used to it and be able to progress into the dreaming stage. Having some of the principles of it put very simply is very helpful, somebody should create an extremely bare bones simplified technique structure, because at times people (including myself) can become fixated on the specific instructions they read and not be aware of the important parts of the process and be unable to do it at a result.

Amazing post SKA!!!

Anyway, megabenman, what you have is what I call, THE OPPOSITE TO A SLEEPING PILL! a.k. some case of insomnia. Perhaps you are too hyper before you go to bed? (Happens more to me than anyone else, trust me)... I find that I cannot fall asleep to songs or stuff, I don't think people sang me to sleep enough as a baby.

How about, forgeting you are WILDing, and daydreaming so that every minute you run into a dreamsign that tells you that you are WILDing? Of course, that's a bit complicated, but just DON'T GIVE UP!!!!

I will throw you a party in this thread once you learn to WILD! -Stoat

I've been thinking of good ways to hold on to my Conciousness while I am entering a Dream.
And, allthough I have never tried one realy SPECIFIC WILDtechnique, I think I might have an Idea how I'm going to attempt WILDs in the Future.

By a SYMBOLISING Day Dream, that Symbolises me ''entering a Dream Conciously''.
First one would have to ''empty their heads'' of any thoughts (May prove hard to do but practise makes perfect): I.E. I could Imagine and Daydream of Walking over a VERY VERY long Bridge with myst and fog under it instead of water.And this Bridge itself would be my Conciousness : And I walk this Long long Bridge all the way into Dreamland . And all the while, when Hypnagogia gets stronger and Hypnotising distracting thoughts start clouding your Clearity, I shall Symbolise the Hypnagogia as a STORM that is Trying to Blow me off of the Bridge ad Falling Unconcious. STAYING on that Brigde, Imaginairy, symbolises STAYING Concious and Resisting the Storm . Knowing and fully REALISING that the Brigde IS my Conciousness . And as long as I walk on it I cannot loose my Conciousness: I'm following it Straight into a Dream.


Now this just MY way of Symbolising The DreamWorld, Conciousness and Hypnagogia.
Conciousness is the Brigde I walk, The Dream is where the Bridge leads to and The Hypnagogia could be symbolised as a STORM trying to blow you off of the Brigde (As it usually does and makes you Loose your conciousness)

Now each person is different and thus each person may symbolise things different.
But I always found that explaning and understanding very Paradox things ( such as Dreaming ) is easier understood when I Symbolise and Compare it to other, less Mysterious, simpler things.

But the main Things to build your Symbolical Story Around are: The DreamWorld, Conciousness, YOU and the Hypnagogia trying to Make you fall unconcious. And ESPECIALLY the part where you imagine you can RESIST falling unconcious to the Hypnagogia.

Very interesting.... Don't forget to do a reality check if you find yourself walking along the bridge for ever! I spose that by keeping the thought in your mind that the bridge is your consiousness should work to keep your mind from falling asleep.... good job. Making theories is fun, and I might just try a method like that.... and everytime I see a fish or something come out of the myst (a thought), I will tell myself to concentrate on the bridge, and the fish will go back to the mysterious.... well, you get what I mean!

Good luck! -Stoat

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Originally Posted by Stoat

Very interesting.... Don't forget to do a reality check if you find yourself walking along the bridge for ever! I spose that by keeping the thought in your mind that the bridge is your consiousness should work to keep your mind from falling asleep.... good job. Making theories is fun, and I might just try a method like that.... and everytime I see a fish or something come out of the myst (a thought), I will tell myself to concentrate on the bridge, and the fish will go back to the mysterious.... well, you get what I mean!

Good luck! -Stoat
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Yeah FISHES to Symbolise thought. I like the sound of that. perhaps MERMAIS or SIRENS as SIRENS are known to DISTRACT sailors(Lucid Dreamers) and LURE them into the (Unconcious) Water..or in this case Myst. If people here like Greek Mythology, perhaps some of you know the Story of Odysseus? There was a part when he was sailing the Greek Seas and he passed a group of Beautifull Seductive Sirens that tried to distract Odysseus and his Crew of sailors to cause them to crash on rocks and cliffs and drown. He stuffed his own and his crew's ears with WAX to be able to resist the ENTICING Chants of the Sirens, and that's how he got passed them without being enchanted, distracted and crashed on sea cliffs

This can be great way to Symbolise Conciously enduring Sleep Hypnosis too.


I'd personally like to stick to Me walking that Bridge(Conciousness), over those Misty Chasm(Unconciousness) under the Bridge in which Beautifull, Distracting Sirens chant to you (Distracting thoughts). And expecially the DESTINC MISSION of Following the Road to see where it LEADS and NOT to pay too much attention to the chanting and Seducing Sirens(thoughts) Maybe I'll plant Roadsigns saying ''RC!'' along the entire Length of the Bridge. Hey I can, because it's MY Bridge :wink: :P


PS: I'm going to DRAW that Bridge Scene with the RC! signs, Fog and the Sirens. It may help me visualise it better.

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Originally Posted by Stoat

Anyway, megabenman, what you have is what I call, THE OPPOSITE TO A SLEEPING PILL! a.k. some case of insomnia. Perhaps you are too hyper before you go to bed? (Happens more to me than anyone else, trust me)... I find that I cannot fall asleep to songs or stuff, I don't think people sang me to sleep enough as a baby.

How about, forgeting you are WILDing, and daydreaming so that every minute you run into a dreamsign that tells you that you are WILDing? Of course, that's a bit complicated, but just DON'T GIVE UP!!!!

I will throw you a party in this thread once you learn to WILD! -Stoat
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It's not insomnia or anything. It just takes me a long time to fall asleep (20 minutes to an hour) and having my mind wander. My mind wanders really easily anyways (its probably wandering 90% of the time I am not asleep) so its not so painful waiting for so long to fall asleep. I can sometimes fall asleep to songs, but rarely.

How do I run into a dreamsign?

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Originally Posted by megabenman

I can sometimes fall asleep to songs, but rarely.
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Listening to music makes me more alert. I tend to concentrate on it, and it pulls me out of my sleepy state. Same with concentrating on my breathing unless I am really, really tired or when I am doing a WBTB+WILD. I will often have times when I can't sleep. It will be 2 or 3 AM and I will be up in bed trying to sleep. I find that I am better off getting up and doing something productive (programming in C++ is pretty mind numbing...) until the wee hours of the morning and then going to bed when I know I will nod off quickly, then trying to meditate ect. Then the next night I will ahve no problem going to sleep because Iwas up late the night before. Then the next night I will not sleep until 2 or 3 am again. Crazy. So get up and do something until you feel like passing out from lack of sleep.

peace,
D&C

Argh.... I just spent a lot of time making a big post, and the internet got disconnected!!!!!!!

Anyway, basically it said....

Megabenman... In order to run into your dreamsigns, you must create them! They can be anything, but incase you become unconsious while WILDing, you should relate them to what happened 2 days ago, the day you are WILDing, or 2 days ahead, as dreams seem to always be about what happens 2 days before or after!

SKA... Interesting! I'll tell you in this thread when your method works for me. Personally, I'd choose fishies though, as SIRENS may make me think about something else (if you know what I mean ), and this would make it hard for me to get my body to rest!

Anyway, good luck MegaBenMan with creating dreamsigns, and good luck with your method, SKA!

-Stoat

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Originally Posted by SKA

If you never smoked pot BTW; THIS feeling is best compaired with being Physically STONED from Marijuana ;) Your Limbs become very heavy.

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Very true.


And when I try to WILD I also put myself in a daydream. One time I actually told myself to visualize an office with people in it. I ended up going to "look" at them and they were gone. So I went looking for them, opened a door and saw they had changed sexes. At the time I forgot I was trying to enter the dream. I ended up waking when I realized it. :|

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Originally Posted by Stoat

Megabenman... In order to run into your dreamsigns, you must create them! They can be anything, but incase you become unconsious while WILDing, you should relate them to what happened 2 days ago, the day you are WILDing, or 2 days ahead, as dreams seem to always be about what happens 2 days before or after!
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You don't understand, I can't control my thoughts while unconcious.

Oh, when I read light sleepers I thought those that awaken easily. I can usually fall asleep without too much trouble, although it sometimes takes 30 minutes.

As for sleeping, if my cellphone is set on vibrate across the room it will wake me when it goes off. Little clicks here and there do as well, such as walls settling in the middle of the night.

Strangely enough when the A/C kicks on at night it doesn't wake me.

I wake up really easily too. I don't understand how anyone cannot be waken by sudden light by opening a door near you.

Yes, light sleepers means that you wake up easily, but usually that also means that it is harder to fall asleep.... if you wake up easily, and fall asleep easily, then I envy you!!!

BTW, I still haven't tried SKA's method yet, but that is because in the past few days I have had the cold, and it is hard to relax with a blocked nose and lots of coughing!

Good luck again... are you getting sick of me saying good luck? -Stoat

My mind also wanders a lot, but I've somehow wired my brain to occasionally pick up on the fact that I'm WILDing so I somehow barely stay concious all the way through the Sleep-Paralysis.

This is what happens to me when I attempt the WILD
1. Start seeing colors and somtimes flashes (like flashes of lightning but not as bright)
2. Eventually I'll start hearing jumbled noises and very distorted images (semi-unconcious at this point)
3. HI starts to become more vivid, also my brain tends to change what I was originally thinking about and it becomes very random
4/5. HI actually becomes pretty clear, like I'm viewing someone else's dream almost*
4/5. HI abruptly ends, and I feel my body fall into myself and the onset of SP occurs. This is the point at which I jump back to the waking state and lucidity begins.
6. I'll hear random sounds, sometimes creepy ones, along with a common static-like noise.
7. I'll start feeling vibrations, which vary from light to intensly powerful.*
8. I roll off my bed (dream-body) and the dream begins. I'm blind at first, I just feel myself floating around, and then soon I'll have vision and be somewhere inside of my room in most cases.

* = doesn't always happen

Is number 3 the problem you have? If so, I suggest donig WILD while WBTB, that way it will happen fast enough that you are able to remain concious all the way through, even when your mind does wander off. I simply cannot do WILDs at night because it takes to long to get to step 4/5 for me, and I'm also asking now somewhere else if it's possible to do it during a mid-day nap.

(I also do have a past of random Sleep-Paralysis so that undoubtably does help me a little, so it may more difficult for you even if I may have the same thing in common)

Being restless actually could be used as a advantage for WBTB. I've had morning where I woke up and wondered if I would be able to fall back asleep, and out of nowhere I'm falling into SP skipping alot of my usual steps (but this is like after an hour of tossing and turning).

I read that for chronic insomniacs it helps to use SMR frequences with binaural beats or something like that. At least I read that in the Neuro-Programmer 2 material. I'm working with that program now to try to help me get in the right mindset for lucid dreaming.

I like those binaural things, I don't know why, they don't seem to change you at all (or maybe it's just me.....).

BTW, I haven't been practising WILD much lately, but I have been using SKA's technique to help me fall asleep! I have been imagining me walking on the bridge, which is hanging lower and lower until it is engulfed in the mist (unconsiousness). I then walk out of the mist into a mind generated place, and from there I don't know what happens, I usually just fall asleep soon after I enter the place!

Hoping for more replies -Stoat!

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Originally Posted by Stoat

I like those binaural things, I don't know why, they don't seem to change you at all (or maybe it's just me.....).

BTW, I haven't been practising WILD much lately, but I have been using SKA's technique to help me fall asleep! I have been imagining me walking on the bridge, which is hanging lower and lower until it is engulfed in the mist (unconsiousness). I then walk out of the mist into a mind generated place, and from there I don't know what happens, I usually just fall asleep soon after I enter the place!

Hoping for more replies -Stoat!
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Seems like you were close to a Real dream though.. Did that Brigde appear more and more realistic? And that Room you imagined? Was that of Realistic DreamQuality yet?

Well I suppose since the Endless Bridge is a constant reminder of Staying Concious you shoudl attempt to enter the ''myst''(subconcious) and just keep walking on the Bridge: The room may have been your Mind's Ultimate Distraction from staying concious. And Subconciousness gotcha and whirled your long maintained conciousness out of the window.


Perhaps you may have more success if you keep that Reminder of Maintaining Conciousness untill that very scene that keeps you concious, becomes more and more realistic and becomes a dream...All the way untill you notice your Enviroment is somewhat Stable and Consistent like a Real Dream.


From there you could probably fly off, create a door and go through it and enter other dreamscenes...But NOT unless you're fully submerged into the (subconcious) Dreaming Mind.

I'm going to try it tonight and tomorrow morning in an WBTBT fashion.

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Originally Posted by blade5x

Is number 3 the problem you have? If so, I suggest donig WILD while WBTB, that way it will happen fast enough that you are able to remain concious all the way through, even when your mind does wander off. I simply cannot do WILDs at night because it takes to long to get to step 4/5 for me, and I'm also asking now somewhere else if it's possible to do it during a mid-day nap.

(I also do have a past of random Sleep-Paralysis so that undoubtably does help me a little, so it may more difficult for you even if I may have the same thing in common)

Being restless actually could be used as a advantage for WBTB. I've had morning where I woke up and wondered if I would be able to fall back asleep, and out of nowhere I'm falling into SP skipping alot of my usual steps (but this is like after an hour of tossing and turning).
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No... actually my problem would be in your list... reaching number one. What I see is dull random colours (mostly green and purple) which I doubt is HI.

I always do WILD's during WBTB, the problem is though that I'm so tired my mind will wander uncontrolably and I will fall asleep.

As for Sleep-Paralysis, I've never had it in my life.