How Important Is *movement*

Okay, the following is a quote from a book I've just started reading, "Dreaming as Delirium..." by J Allen Hobson (I typed this up so sorry for any typos):

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Of the three modulatory (M) chemicals, it is norepinephrine that is most essential for attention [...]

Norepinephrine levels fall whenever we become sleepy (or even bored); in these states we have difficulty focusing our attention. We lose sight of the words as we read a book at bedtime or lose sight of the road as we drive at night. … [remember] that in dreams we are never able to stop the action to focus on some detail; our ability to attend is disabled. ... during dreaming, the cortex is missing norepinephrine and the control that it confers.

WATCHING OURSELVES DREAM … AND HALLUCINATE

With practice, in our dreams, we can call up just enough norepinephrine to give us some control. At rare times we experience what is called lucid dreaming - while still in a dream, we become aware we are dreaming. This awareness is usually fleeting and more often wakes us up. But we know, for an instant, that we are dreaming. Certain individuals, like my colleague Ed Pace-Schott, can sometimes make themselves become lucid while dreaming. When he succeeds, he regains control of his attention. He does this in two ways. One is to notice and pay attention to the bizarre discontinuities and incongruities that label dreaming so clearly, instead of ignoring these obvious clues as we usually do. The second is to tell himself to make voluntary movements (that is, to seize control) of his eyes instead of letting them flit back and forth automatically as they usually do.

With some encouragement from Ed, I have renewed my interest in lucid dreaming. And I use a similar one-two punch. First I notice the obvious fact that I am dreaming, and then I will an act [i.e., wills himself to perform an action] that corresponds to what I am seeing in my dreams. If I am flying, I tell myself to flap my arms.

… what I am doing is engaging in volition. I am purposely starting a motor program. My theory is that by doing this I am engaging my frontal cortex to call for chemical help. My brain stem responds by sending up some norepinephrine - just enough to place me on the knife’s edge between REM sleep and waking. If I push the system too hard, I will wake up. If I let up a bit, I will become reabsorbed in the dream.[/b]

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Sorry it's a bit long, but I thought the whole thing was interesting.

What seems to be being said, is that MOVEMENT is very important in terms of attaining lucidity (conscious awareness) when you're dreaming.

This is because moving your arms, consciously moving your eyes, or doing some other thing that involves ACTION will cause your brain to release more Noradrenaline (Norepinephrine), a neurotransmitter that is normally shut off (more or less) when we're in REM sleep, and which is crucial for being able to focus our attention, or (I guess?) think critically.

Okay, so does anyone have any thoughts about any of this? Have you tried deliberately doing something that involves movement when you start to become aware you're dreaming, and has it helped to increase your lucidity or control?

The only things I've kinda managed to 'programme' myself to do are look at my hands (which seems to work, in that I've atleast actually done this a couple of times) and pick up/ look at objects, but these seem like very passive things to do (which is maybe why I only get a very low degree of lucidity, which doesn't last too long?) :content:

Anyway, anyone got any thoughts about this?

thats very intresting... so ifu were able to do something that requires lots of action with your dream body, then your brain will release norepinephrine that will make u lucid? someone ought to make a technique to try this out.

I've only had a handful of lucid dreams, but I have a theory on how movement or touch can help you to not necessarily remain lucid, but at least help prevent you from waking up. It could help with maintining lucidity if you can associate it with your movements.

The source of this idea came from an LD that I had where when I became lucid everything started to go black (as is normal for me for some reason), and I was afraid that I would wake up in a particular position. However, when I woke up I realized that I wasn't in the position that I expected to wake up. Thus, I had an idea whereby I would move around when I became lucid, mainly by rubbing my hands together, and thus keeping me in the dream. I neglected, however, to remind myself that I was dreaming, but nonetheless I remained in the dream and hope to take the next step soon.

Anyway, I thought I would share that. As for "programming" yourself, all I do is decide ahead of time what to do when I become lucid; it's about forming a plan and sticking to it. When I become lucid I know to expect the blackness and the feeling that I am going to wake up, and so I usually do a reality check and then start to rub my hands together. Combining that with a reminder that I am dreaming, I am confident that I will be able to remain lucid longer than I have in the past.

I hope that this was helpful in some way.

Well, this article seems to be scientific yet VERY LD amateurish. Yes, motion may help stimulate lucidity but it's important to do a *variety* of motion. Ever noticed how doing something repetitive in a LD drops your lucidity down to 0?
That's why different people advice different lucidity fortifying techniques. Some tell you to look at your hands, others to rub your hands, yet others advise to look around your dream or say that you are lucid. You may also perform a RC to fortify your lucidity. The goal is to break the repetitive action with some activity that is associated with lucidity.

At the same time too much random demanding activity is likely to unfocus your awareness and cause you a good deal of your lucidity...

If you want an example: my early attempts of dream reentry resulted in me and the dreamscape gradually phasing into each other. The body came faster than the dream so I took a few seconds to wiggle my fingers and feel if I have a "double" feeling of moving in bed as well.

Usually when I gain awareness I move or continue to move - I would get up from a chair or the bed and make my way to the nearest object that I may use as a RC.

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[freefire:]so ifu were able to do something that requires lots of action with your dream body, then your brain will release norepinephrine that will make u lucid? someone ought to make a technique to try this out.[/b]

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I guess maybe this is how dream spinning works, by causing your brain to release more noradrenaline (as you try to spin your dream body), thereby keeping you in the dream or enabling you to regain some control over it (I.e. by stopping you from waking)?

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[Amethyst Star:]Thus, I had an idea whereby I would move around when I became lucid, mainly by rubbing my hands together, and thus keeping me in the dream. [/b]

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That’s interesting, I guess I could develop the fact that I *have* at least managed to get myself to remember to look @ my hands (2 or 3 times anyway), by trying to remember to rub them together too.

From what I’ve read so far (of the book I quoted from), I think the idea is that noradrenaline is associated with focus & attention, as well as in some way with movement, so remembering to look @ (~focus on) my hands and then also to rub them together is kinda combining both of these, so I guess should be more effective…

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As for "programming" yourself, all I do is decide ahead of time what to do when I become lucid; it's about forming a plan and sticking to it. [/b]

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Yeah that’s a good point, I don't really have a very definite, considered course of action in mind for when I do manage any degree of lucidity (looking @ my hands is really the only reality check I consistently use), so deciding on some sort of actual plan (as opposed to lots of random things I've read about & usually forget when it matters :content: ) sounds like a good idea.

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[Ev:]Some tell you to look at your hands, others to rub your hands, yet others advise to look around your dream or say that you are lucid. You may also perform a RC to fortify your lucidity. The goal is to break the repetitive action with some activity that is associated with lucidity. [/b]

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I guess the important thing is control here too? When we dream (normal dreams) we perform lots of ‘actions’, but we're not actually doing this in a considered, focused way or with any control are we?

Consciously deciding to DO something is maybe what’s important in other words, as this will prompt our brains to release more noradenaline & thereby increase our lucidity.

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Usually when I gain awareness I move or continue to move - I would get up from a chair or the bed and make my way to the nearest object that I may use as a RC.[/b]

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Actually that makes me think of a question .. Okay, I’ve only ever (so far) been able to achieve very low levels of lucidity, but what happens when you’ve been lucid for a while and/ or managed to achieve a higher degree of lucidity within a dream, does it become LESS necessary to continue to consciously do things to keep yourself lucid when you've done this? (In other words, is lucidity more stable as you atain higher levels of it .. I'm kinda assuming it is, but could someome confirm this please?)

Anyway, thanks for the interesting replies... :content: