Consciousness Over Subconscious Technique

In Dreamyoga you imagine yourself in a dream all day i.e. reality is a dream. Now I was just thinking if you control everything with your mind i.e. breathing, movement, even pain e.t.c. would this improve chances of LD. What I am saying is instead of leaving it to your subconscious to do things you would force your conscious mind to do it.
Example pick up a pencil or give a pencil to a friend or family. Go on pick up a pencil before you read on. Now as you see you subconsciously move the pencil into a position to draw. You could say so what, however I didn't say anything about writing so your subconscious mind is at work here. Now what if you conscious stop ever subconscious action like walking or talking and do it consciousley i.e. being conscious awear and in control of your action.
Well if you do this maybe when you dream you would be in conscious control of yourself theirfore equalling lucid dreaming. Tip start with your breath then move on to your sense like touch is a good thing you don't notice your clothes consciously, but subconsciously try to increase conscious awearness of clothes. If you conscious of all your sense in control off your subconscious mind then maybe something might happen.

P.S. sorry I couldn't think of a better title for this method. Also it helps if you focus.

This would be an interesting exercise under any circumstances. You say it helps if you focus - for me it would require constant and intense focus... like trying to meditate all day.

The thing is I've spent my life developing "skills"... which pretty much means relegating routine actions to the subconscious so my consciousness is free to deal with the details. I'm a musician, for example... and the individual elements that go into playing even a simple piece on the guitar are just not possible if the subconscious is not intensely involved! Likewise with driving, machining, typing this reply... everything.

I would start with meditative focus on my breathing... and probably end there, too, because in order to move on to anything else the breathing would have to go subconscious. Moving from one thing to another, as you suggest, would be interesting indeed.

I think you've nailed something essential here. In normal dreams, we just kind of react to everything, don't we? Going lucid is in effect breaking the flow of subconscious reaction.

Quote:

---

This would be an interesting exercise under any circumstances. You say it helps if you focus - for me it would require constant and intense focus... like trying to meditate all day.[/b]

---

The worse thing is forgetting so I will start to write the letter A on my hand so I can remeber.

Quote:

---

The thing is I've spent my life developing "skills"... which pretty much means relegating routine actions to the subconscious so my consciousness is free to deal with the details. I'm a musician, for example... and the individual elements that go into playing even a simple piece on the guitar are just not possible if the subconscious is not intensely involved! Likewise with driving, machining, typing this reply... everything.[/b]

---

Your mind is a very powerful thing so if you force yourself then maybe you can adapt to it. I am a artist so when I draw I do it subconsciously it doesn't seem that hard to draw consciously it seems more beneficial. I get what you mean as I have been trying since I wrote this with success, however I feel kind off sick.

Quote:

---

I would start with meditative focus on my breathing... and probably end there, too, because in order to move on to anything else the breathing would have to go subconscious. Moving from one thing to another, as you suggest, would be interesting indeed.[/b]

---

You can focus on just being consciously awear of your action as controlling your breathing is conscious not controlling your breathing is subconscious, however their is a middle ground where your conscious of your breathing, but not controlling it. Just try and be consciously awear of everything like typing is a good thing if your conscious of typing then you will end up loosing touch typing abillity, however you can't just let your subconscious be in control and awear of the action of typing so be conscious of your hand over the keyboard and the fact it moving and hitting the keys instead of just focusing on what you are going to type. Woah I just got the abillity to touch type(typing fast without looking)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wendylove

Go on pick up a pencil before you read on. Now as you see you subconsciously move the pencil into a position to draw.[/b]

---

No, I didn't. I picked it up with my pointer finger and thumb right in the middle of the pencil. I did subconsciously put it inbetween my teeth, however. Interesting theory that will no doubt increase awareness but I really don't think it will be as effective as that. I think your subconscious would take over in your dream anyway. After all, that is what it's there for, being your subconscious and all. Unless you could completely subdue your subconscious then it won't go away and will continue to work like it's supposed to.

Besides, I think you would develop headaches...

Quote:

---

Unless you could completely subdue your subconscious then it won't go away and will continue to work like it's supposed to.[/b]

---

Well in meditation first your subconscious mind is really crazy and then when you practice everything becomes under your control. Also Tibetan Bhuddhist using meditation can control their dreams, however it does take some work. So like in meditation your brain adapts and get bigger so you can do it more easily so first it would proberly give you a headache trying to be consciously awear of everything, however it will pay off. Also I get headaches twenty four seven so getting headaches is not on my big list of worries.
Also it would pay off like I am touch typing so instead of wasting ten minautes I can do it in three.
Well also headaches are not caused by over thinking their cased by a neurological disorder that make the part of your brain called the Cerebrual cortex eletrically unbalanced or your brain could have something wrong with your blood vessal causing them to swell or shrink. Genetics and diet cause headaches thinking doesn't hurt your brain.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wendylove

Your mind is a very powerful thing so if you force yourself then maybe you can adapt to it. I am a artist so when I draw I do it subconsciously it doesn't seem that hard to draw consciously it seems more beneficial. I get what you mean as I have been trying since I wrote this with success, however I feel kind off sick.[/b]

---

Well, I'm going to give this a try, but when I'm doing things that are non-critical... which means it might not be for a couple days.

There's another thread Howeitzer started you may want to seek out - a slightly different tangent.

I have to fly or I'd find it for you.

I didn't doubt that it wouldn't work, to a certain extent, but I don't think it would be the most effective way either, and it sounds like it would be highly time consuming; requiring a large amount of discipline and meditation. WILD seems to have the same results but it is easier. Granted, if you did master this (meditation), you would probably benefit from it in the long run.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wendylove

Also it would pay off like I am touch typing so instead of wasting ten minautes I can do it in three.[/b]

---

Hmm... I can touch type as well, it's not that rare. Though, add a couple more minutes for reading over typos. (No insult intended).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wendylove

Well also headaches are not caused by over thinking their cased by a neurological disorder that make the part of your brain called the Cerebrual cortex eletrically unbalanced or your brain could have something wrong with your blood vessal causing them to swell or shrink. Genetics and diet cause headaches thinking doesn't hurt your brain.[/b]

---

Muscle tension can restrict blood flow, causing a tension headache. Muscle tension can occur from stress or anxiety. Concentrating to hard on one, simple action could result in stress, teeth grinding and, likewise, anxiety.

Nevertheless, this is interesting and worth trying out.

Quote:

---

Concentrating to hard on one, simple action could result in stress, teeth grinding and, likewise, anxiety.[/b]

---

Well their is a difference between awearness and concentration. Well all I am saying is to be consciousley awear of your body and it sense and to certain degree control it. Off course I don't want you concentrating hard on everything and trying to control everything thats impossible, however how is it hard to notice everything your body is doing.

Quote:

---

Hmm... I can touch type as well, it's not that rare. Though, add a couple more minutes for reading over typos. (No insult intended).[/b]

---

I know it not rare, however if I didn't consciously try to do it I would not have found out I could touch type.

I guess their is one big misunderstanding on what I am telling you to do. Now count to twenty and wiggle your fingers and be awear of them both. Well if you did wiggle your fingers and count you will see it does not take much effort. Now just apply it to the rest of your body. Being consciously awear of something is easy like noticing your breathing, however being consciously in control of breathing takes effort. If your consciously awear of all your subconscious action then their might be a chance to keep hold of that conscious awearness in dreams like Tibetan Monks discovered.

Quote:

---

requiring a large amount of discipline and meditation.[/b]

---

Meditation is hard as you are trying to get rid off your subconscious. What I am saying is you have to be conscious of your subconscious you don't have to control it, however you don't let it go unchecked. Trying to control your breath would require alot of energy and concentration, however being conscious awear of your breath would require little energy.

Hmm... I would subconsciously be using my subconscious for preforming subconscious actions, (which is why it's my subconscious) not concentrating on being conscious of my subconscious actions.

Way to many words ending in -'scious'...

I see what you're saying now, and I still don't think it would help in attaining lucidity, it may increase your awareness in a dream when you become lucid though. All speculation of course, sense I have not tried it. What is that annoying saying - "don't bash it till you try it"? Bah, that one always gets me...

hmmmmm. I just picked the pencil up with my thumb and index finger and held it as if waiting to be directed. Perhaps just picking it up like i was waiting for instructions is subconscious?

Did a little bit of your exercise (as I understand it) this morning... starting with coffee.

It is HARD to keep hot coffee in a full mug while walking out to the car carrying my briefcase. The cool morning air was delicious, and the contrast to the heat of the mug was intense enough to be painful when I was aware of it... and the coffee splashing out onto my hands stung.

Swallowing a mouthful of coffee before getting in the car... feeling it warm my mouth, distinctly go down my esophagus and into my stomach was an experience. I forgot to be conscious of swallowing... then realized it probably wouldn't be safe to drive while trying to do this, so I let it go.

While driving, though, I tried to remain conscious of the leather seat beneath me, the sounds around me and keep my "inner voice" quiet. I realized that there was a choice to be made... by remaining intensely aware of my bodily sensations, I lost the world around me... or I could focus on the delicious cool morning air and the pending sunrise before me and lose my "inner" sensations. Holding both simultaneously was impossible.

My next effort will be to try this exercise for a couple hours (which may be a bit ambitious - this was only about 20 minutes described above!...) before going to sleep.

**EDIT**
The thread I was referring to several posts earlier is this one.

Well I have been doing this all day concentrating on my body and keeping my attention on it. I feel sick and I am really hot, however I might have a cold. Well when going to sleep I concentrated on my body keeping my attention on all sense i.e. touch of bed, sound of outside, where my arms and legs our, sight of darkness and finally heart beat plus breath. It took ages to fall asleep so next time I will do a relaxation technique. Something strange happen I had a nightmare, which was super vivid and it felt like I was their my awearness of the dream increase massively. The dream was about Denmark people going crazy and commiting sucide and all of modern day society was going to collaspe. It started with a scene of thousands of people jumping from a building then I heard about Denmark collasping and everybody dead and how everything going choatic. I really don't want to rewrite it, but just say it was a huge improvement over normal dreams even though I was scared for about ten minautes after.

you say is interresting indeed. I've read it before in DreamYoga texts but they usually explain in a rather Prophetical and Symbolical way that is usually far too mysterious and ungraspable for a Mind raised by Western Society like ours.

But what it comes down to is what Lucid Dreaming's All about:
To become Conscious of the Subconscious. A Dream is a SubConscious Creation. Lucidity is becoming Conscious of that Subconscious Creation.

But HOW? The point you made about becomming consciously aware of subconscious processes is a good one. Breathing is a Subconscious process so I understand why many people tend to consciously focus on their (subconscious) breathing to Breathe consciously. hiowever this is still pretty far removed from Dreaming.
It would work the same for Thinking I guess. ALOT of our thoughts are Spontanious, Subconscious thoughts. And thinking comes a whole lot Closer to Dreaming as I see it. Dreams are in the world of your thoughts.

Maybe a good Meditation method to Become Conscious of the Subconscious is, Not to focus on breathing, but on thinking instead. Say you take 10 minjuutes to sit down and observe all thoughts that pass through your Mind. You'll notice there are Conscious thoughts that arise of your Consciousness and Subconscious thoughts that seem to come out of the Blue and sometimes almost seem like they aren't your own thoughts the way they just criss cross your Mind ''unvited''.

To become aware of the latter would be to become consciously aware of Subconscious thoughts. I'd say you could try this meditation untill you have made some obvious progress. When you have you might wanna try sitting down for 20 Minutes and become conscious of your subconscious thoughts for 20 minutes. And then you might wanna try it to actually induce Lucid Dreams at night or with WBTB+WILD.


But one more Question that troubles me: Should you just Consciously Observe these Subconscious thoughts? Or should you actually ''Hijack'' these Subconscious thoughts as they arise and continue to think them Consciously? Like just Seeing it? or being it?

The way I learned "non spiritual" meditation involved observing thoughts drifting through the mind as isolated entities - rising above them, so to speak. This is how I begin meditation - not by trying to stop the "inner voice" so much, (though that is the goal,) but rather to disconnect from it and observe as it sort of fizzles out. It's tougher to describe than to do. It's quite literally a higher awareness of your consciousness, and it just takes a simple decision and a bit of peace and quiet to achieve it.