hypnic jerks

hypnic jerks, if you don't know, are when you're falling asleep and you suddenly have an intense twitch sort of thing.

I think it's weird that you're usually half into a dream (or minidream maybe) when they happen. And usually for me it seems that the dream is based on the jerk, yet precedes it. Like I'll be walking and then trip and jerk or be riding my bike and crash, yet I don't feel like I would have dreamed it if it weren't for the "hypnic jerk" climax. Maybe dreams are just a type memory of an event that never happened. Are there theories that say something like that?

anyway, anybody have dreams that have nothing to do with the jerk? Or does anybody know anything that could explain what I'm saying? Or is this idea nonsense...?

as in jerk you mean body twitches or mind jolts? ive experienced something similar please evalulate more

sorry I didn't expand... this explains it pretty well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnic_jerk

I get this junk pretty often. At least 3-4 times a week.

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Originally Posted by jamous

Maybe dreams are just a type memory of an event that never happened. Are there theories that say something like that?

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There's scientific evidence that dreams can happen in real-time (regardless of lucidity), and that at least lucid dreams as studied in sleep labs generally happen in real time. Lucid dreamers have made eye signals (physical eye movements correspond to the dreams eye movements) e.g. to indicate the period of time it takes to count to ten, and the period is the same as in waking.

So *in general*, dreams don't seem to just develop when you try to remember them; there is a dream narrative during the night that corresponds to what you remember. Look on the Lucidity Institute's website if you're interested in the research papers.

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Originally Posted by jamous

I think it's weird that you're usually half into a dream (or minidream maybe) when they happen. And usually for me it seems that the dream is based on the jerk, yet precedes it. Like I'll be walking and then trip and jerk or be riding my bike and crash, yet I don't feel like I would have dreamed it if it weren't for the "hypnic jerk" climax.

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There does seem to be this idea that you can be woken up by some stimulus - e.g. a noise - and and remember a dream which not only ended with that stimulus, but seemed to predict it. I've seen several accounts but I can't remember a good one. Imagine something like a dream about a flood that ends with you getting your feet wet and cold as the waters rise... and waking to find your pet dog with its nose on your foot. Which is like what you're saying, except its with a hypnic jerk.

And this is only explainable if the dream happened very quickly (after dog nuzzles your foot and before you woke up), or you subconsciously anticipated the stimulus before it happened (dog does this every other day and you heard it walk into your room / you have magical precognition). All pretty interesting possibilities. In terms of scientific evidence I think all we really have is that dreams can occur outside REM and a theory that REM is just the most common trigger for the dream state.

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Originally Posted by jamous

anyway, anybody have dreams that have nothing to do with the jerk? Or does anybody know anything that could explain what I'm saying?

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Personally I don't remember having very vivid dreams before having a hypnic jerk. Sometimes I remember a white flash and wake up with a jerk. Sometimes I can remember briefly dreaming about something but its not related to the jerk. I don't get jerks that often

I'd suspect that for hypnic jerks, there may be some sort of common cause for both the dream and the jerk. I've read that one explanation for the jerk is that part of your brain watches you relaxing, thinks you're about to fall over, and tries to get you to regain your balance. You could explain your feeling about the jerk causing the dream by saying that either you wouldn't have had the dream if that part of your brain hadn't started feeling you were losing balance.

From what you say it seems likely you can have "minidreams" triggered by some stimulus, and that they develop a fairly vivid imagery and narrative in the time it takes you to wake up. I wouldn't rule out precognition in the general case either, but I'd take a lot of convincing on that one ;-) and it seems like overkill for your hypnic jerk dreams.

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I have had this happen to me a few times. One clear example is one night I was attempting to WILD and I guess it was semi-successful, but not fully lucid, as I was suddenly driving my car and some girl I went to high school with years ago runs out in front of the car and I am about to hit her when I freak out and my body jerks to wake me up. I also remember as a kid slipping into a dream where I'm skateboarding and I fall off and wake or something like that. Sounds pretty common.

Once, I was sitting in a chair, dozing off, and I had a daydream that a trapdoor fell closed on my head. When it hit me, I had a hypnic jerk and woke up.

Maybe your brain simply subconsciously knows that, since you're drifting into hypnagogia, you're about to experience a hypnic jerk. Therefore it creates a dream to explain it, so you won't question it so much and not be able to get back to sleep. Or something to that effect...

and as for the dreams being memories... this isn't exactly what I was saying nor does it likely have any relevance to anything, but maybe dreams are unfolding memories as they occur. I mean, that is essentially what a memory is right?--a reenactment of a situation that affects the senses in our minds...
I dunno... maybe that's just what life is.

haha, I don't know what I'm talking about.

also, funny that you post that link, because I actually have a post on there, and I also recall noticing the other bike example.

...small internet...

that happens to me sometimes while i am in the middle os the day and very tired, but not usually when i am going to bed. I can compare mine to falling down a stair that isnt actually there. I dont have any advice though.

I get that when I'm falling asleep in school. I just had one where my dream was walking and I slipped on a gatorade bottle. In real life my foot shot out forward and I woke up as I nearly fell out of my desk, but there was nothing near my foot.
Also, I had a dream where I was watching a game and there was a countdown to the final buzzer. When it got to zero, my alarm went off and I woke up.

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Originally Posted by Pengwin64

I get that when I'm falling asleep in school. I just had one where my dream was walking and I slipped on a gatorade bottle. In real life my foot shot out forward and I woke up as I nearly fell out of my desk, but there was nothing near my foot.
Also, I had a dream where I was watching a game and there was a countdown to the final buzzer. When it got to zero, my alarm went off and I woke up.

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I think our subconciouses can predict things like that... while we're asleep at least. Whether it's psychic or learned I dunno, but certainly interesting...