Why oblivion instead of lucidity?

Now that I'm actively trying to get lucid dreams again, a realization came of which the knowledge was there all the time - when I dream, I am not aware that I dream. Well, hallelujah, I finally figured it out, huh?
Due to my recent studying of NLP and hypnosis, it came to me that maybe we aren't being lucid since our subconscious has anchored (an NLP term, which means basically to group certain concepts, feelings, emotions, thoughts together) dreaming to being unconscious - non-lucid. That might explain why beginners have such hard time to maintain their lucidity - since you are basically conscious in the dream, your subconscious takes that as a sign that the dream is over and chucks you out!
My theory is that babies are lucid all the time they dream. This explains why there are "naturally-gifted" lucid dreamers and the rest of us. Babies need to dream to develop their brain and nervous system, but when the need for that is gone (i'm guessing at the age of 2-3) and because the children are not aware that they are doing something absolutely amazing, most of them consciously forget that they can lucid dream. For some the skill remains.

Now this may seem rather obvious, but when we have forgotten something then the remedy would be to remember! I know the self-hypnosis induced lucid dreams are not a novelty, but the ones i have seen lack the reasoning behind why it is so damn effective. You are basically switching your subconscious' lucidity switch from OFF to ON.
Specifically I have in mind to anchor dreaming with being lucid - so that there can be no dreams without lucidity, because at the moment my subconscious thinks i must be unconscious while dreaming, but after it'll think that i MUST be conscious while dreaming!
I'll try this tonight and report back. Hope many of you try this too:p

Thate makes sense

But how can I do that?
I mean self hypnosis is really hard

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Originally Posted by javier__cantu

Thate makes sense

But how can I do that?
I mean self hypnosis is really hard

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Only if you believe it is hard. It's quite easy actually. Haven't got the time at the moment, but i'll post a quick guide on self-hypnosis when I get back.

Anomanderis, where you say that our subconscious mind chucks us out of the dream when we become conscious.

I tend to disagree. I had lucids in the middle of the night and slept till morning. Also I had lucids were I maintained Lucidity the entire dream.
Why most lucids are short and we are quickly awakened uppon lucidity is because of 2 reasons I believe:
- Getting over excited, releasing a mayor dose of Adrenaline, and
- Getting Lucid as we are about to wake up anyway since our consciousness is then naturally slowly awakening.

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Originally Posted by SKA

Anomanderis, where you say that our subconscious mind chucks us out of the dream when we become conscious.

I tend to disagree. I had lucids in the middle of the night and slept till morning. Also I had lucids were I maintained Lucidity the entire dream.
Why most lucids are short and we are quickly awakened uppon lucidity is because of 2 reasons I believe:
- Getting over excited, releasing a mayor dose of Adrenaline, and
- Getting Lucid as we are about to wake up anyway since our consciousness is then naturally slowly awakening.

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I totally agree with you and I'm just saying that the belief-system of your subconscious is one critical factor for attaining and then sustaining the state of lucidity. This is the problem with language, that i couldn't transfer my thoughts into words. Or I just screwed up :p
If we had the subconscious mind as an accomplice to lucidity and not a hindrance, then it would actively seek to keep us lucid. Not helping is not equidistant to chucking out, but that is a matter of philosophy.

http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ead.php?t=6214 - that is the HILD technique by Gothlark.

Even though I think Gothlark's technique is a bit iffy (don't know why, exactly, just have that feeling), but what he did very well was incorporate visualization into the programming. Since your subC "thinks" in visualizations and truly, it cannot tell the difference between what you perceive with your senses and what you visualize them to feel. To be most effective, the visualization should be 1st person and be as real as possible - actually feel the things that you're imagining - this is called tactile imaging.

The basic steps to hypnotizing yourself (aka direct access to the subC):

1)Think through how it'd be most effective to get the message to your subconscious - what kind of mantras and visualizations to use.
Note that these should be present tense. In your visualizations you should be already experiencing the result you want to arrive at.
2) Relax as much as possible, as far as possible. Relax your whole body.
3) Say to yourself your purpose for the hypnosis and be confident that it will work. Know that it'll work.
This step may take time if you haven't done this before, so do take your time and get relaxed.
3) Go into the hypnotic state - usually done by imagining one is falling down or just moving downwards.
5) Use your already thought up visualizations and mantras to get the message to your subC.
Stay in this stage as long as you'd like.
6) When done, confirm your purpose and know that you have already accomplished it.
6) Come out, go to sleep, what ever catches your fancy, but don't start consciously thinking about whether it's going to work or not - just let it go.

This is the basic scheme that i think i'll follow.

Interesting. I used to do self hypnosis and was quite good at it. I learned it so I could lessen my hatred of homework and be les lazy. I then started using the same relaxation and falling visualizations to assist with WILD. I never thought to use it that way. Removing the subconcious block would be a golden key to LDing. Briliant! However, it seems like it would take a long time and a lot of sessions to undo such a deeply engrained and accepted concept.

Night 1:
Seems to have failed, since i do not remember being lucid, although dream recall stayed at about the same level as usual (~5-8 dreams).

This seeming failure could be the result of me not thinking ahead what kind of visualizations to use and because i wasn't keeping my mind focused on the task at hand. Haven't done any deep meditation for a while now and a couple of times it seemed that i was gonna lift out of my body, so i went with that instead of focusing on hypnotizing myself.
The key to success is in finding the right combination of visualization + mantra that my subC would accept the easiest.
Tonight i'll try using already thought up visualizations and mantras with the help of guided self-hypnosis.

Zobey, even if it took a long time to achieve, it would be like dream yoga - unlimited lucidity. Even though dream yoga has much more benefits (like waking lucidity ;) ), since it works on a different principle, self-hypnosis should be more easily achievable.

My will be done.

I think i figured out why i'm failing. You see, my fallacy was how i thought my subC could actually tell if i was dreaming or not. If my subC cannot tell the difference between what i visualize and what i actually see, then how can it tell when i am dreaming and when i'm not?
This obviously means that the things i've been programming during self-hypnosis cannot have any effect at all.

But what would be the most efficient way to get my subC to understand that i should be lucid in my dreams? Any ideas?

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Originally Posted by anomanderis

But what would be the most efficient way to get my subC to understand that i should be lucid in my dreams? Any ideas?

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have you looked into subliminal messages?