How can some people WILD before sleep?

hey all,

I have read a few things about people who WILD, when first going to bed.

How is this possible? I would presume any dreams at the start of the sleep cycle would be very brief and really unclear?. What makes it possible to go straight into REM at the very start of a sleep, and how can I do this? and id rather not go for polyphasic sleep.

also:

--> does HI = entering a dream. very rarely before sleep, Ill get sights/sounds like H.I. Is this a sign that I am entering REM sleep and can try WILD?

any help would be appreciated...so I can make better use of nights I feel HI.

Hi James,

I've tried the WILD right at sleep onset quite a few times. Unless you are deprived of sleep and your mind is in dire need of powering down and starting the sleep cycle, you're likely to just lay there for quite a while.

WILDing before the first cycle is technically not WILDing - you're not "waking up, then going back to bed". What you are doing is more like a meditation technique and trying to maintain that meditation through 4 stages of sleep and right into REM. Very difficult (but I guess possible for meditation masters).

When you try WILD at the onset of sleep, you need to lay still and keep your awareness all throughout your first cycle - that takes a long time. When you WILD after a cycle or two, the time it takes for you to go through the cycles drastically decreases, making it easier to hold your awareness and slip through the threshold of dreamland.

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Originally Posted by Tornado Joe

Hi James,

I've tried the WILD right at sleep onset quite a few times. Unless you are deprived of sleep and your mind is in dire need of powering down and starting the sleep cycle, you're likely to just lay there for quite a while.

WILDing before the first cycle is technically not WILDing - you're not "waking up, then going back to bed". What you are doing is more like a meditation technique and trying to maintain that meditation through 4 stages of sleep and right into REM. Very difficult (but I guess possible for meditation masters).

When you try WILD at the onset of sleep, you need to lay still and keep your awareness all throughout your first cycle - that takes a long time. When you WILD after a cycle or two, the time it takes for you to go through the cycles drastically decreases, making it easier to hold your awareness and slip through the threshold of dreamland.

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This waking up, then going back to bed part you are talking about is not WILD - is WBTB. I am pretty sure if you've done a lot of ld-ing with WBTB you would be able to do it right before sleep. Or if you fall asleep really quick, have a technique or some shit like that. It is possible to enter the sleep at REM, but its mostly happening when you really need sleep, but if you can induce it by WILD-ing you would probably sleep better with the same amount of energy. Probably..

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Originally Posted by TG

This waking up, then going back to bed part you are talking about is not WILD - is WBTB

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That is correct, TempleGuard - and as you noted:

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It is possible to enter the sleep at REM, but its mostly happening when you really need sleep

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Which is why I believe WILD and WBTB are both parts of one technique, really. WBTB makes WILDing easier to do. When you WBTB, you are essentially preparing yourself for the WILD procedure.

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I am pretty sure if you've done a lot of ld-ing with WBTB you would be able to do it right before sleep

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Sure, if one had the ability to control their mind's brain-waves (such as those who are highly skilled in meditation) this would be one way to do it. I'm not saying it ISN'T possible either, because I was able to do it once, and I've seen many others on here say they do it as well. I'm just saying it's more difficult.

If you really want to try it, check out our tutorials section - there's a couple techniques which can help. I think one called FILD is actually for those wanting to try WILD at sleep onset.

Heya,

Firstly, in my honest opinion, you're better of forgetting about the concept of REM altogether. REM is a laboratory term, used in scientific research, or in extremis in sleep-therapy. In my experience, REM has almost no real bearing on the inner exploration of your sleep and your dreams that a lucid dreamer does.

In short, it doesn't help, it only hinders.

That said, realise that scientifically dreams are NOT directly related to REM. The idea that dreams happen only during REM sleep is long since outdated. NON-REM dreams are a common concept is almost all sleep-research done in present times. So yes, it is possible to go directly into a WILD dream when going to sleep.

That said, for most people, its harder to do. But you're not most people, you're you. What applies to most people does not necessarily apply to you. Dreams and sleep is funny that way. Just because someone else can do it doesn't necessarily mean you can. And vice versa, just because you can do it doesn't necessarily mean someone else can.

So try it out for yourself, see if its your cup of tea. If not, then not. If so, then so much the better :)

Finding out what works for you is a part of the process every dreamer who's serious about lucid dreaming is going to have to go through.

-Redrivertears-

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That said, realise that scientifically dreams are NOT directly related to REM. The idea that dreams happen only during REM sleep is long since outdated. NON-REM dreams are a common concept is almost all sleep-research done in present times. So yes, it is possible to go directly into a WILD dream when going to sleep.

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This may be the case, but dreams which occur in the non-REM stage are far shorter, fragmented, and less likely to be be remembered. If you were to somehow have a 5 second non-REM lucid, you'd be likely to forget it anyway. Scientifically possible? Perhaps. Rewarding? eh.....

Hey there,

Remember though that in scientific terms, studies are done in groups of people, and that results are based on the average or the median of these groups. They incorporate what seems to be true for most people (and in scientific terms most usually means 66%).

Even in these scientific tests, there's people that report having very strong and vivid non-REM dreams. They're simply discounted because there aren't enough of them to be statistically relevant, compared to entirety of the test group.

On an individual basis, that means yes, the chances of you being unable to having vivid non-REM dreams (without training, that's another thing these scientific tests don't factor in), aren't all that great. But that doesn't mean there is no chance. You might be one of the larger group that can't remember non-REM dreams very well. But you might just as well be one of the exceptions that do!

Additionally, in scientific terms we're talking about correlations here, not causal things. And these correlations are never, ever 100%. So what it actually means, translated into normal terms, is that non-REM dreams tend to be vague and hard to remember for MOST people, MOST of the time. And not for ALL people, ALL of the time.

So don't be fooled in thinking it cannot happen because it doesn't happen enough to be statistically valid. There's people that can WILD on the onset of sleep, and there's times when you can have very vivid dreams right at the onset of sleep.

There's simply no way of knowing whether it works for you, until you try. Sure, the chances are it won't, but who knows, you might get lucky.

-Redrivertears-

I agree with Redrivertears. I would also like to add that your sleep cycle is not always consistent. Even if you go to bed and wake up at the exact same time every day, you will enter different stages of sleep at different times.

There are a lot of factors that can influence your brain activity. What you were doing right before sleep, what you do while falling asleep, how sleep deprived you are, whether or not you had a mentally fatiguing day, ect. Some nights I find myself entering directly into a vivid dream as soon as my head hits the pillow. Similar to an afternoon nap. I will go to bed at 11:00 and wake up at 11:30 with a full dream ready to be recorded.

It's more difficult to WILD when first going to bed, but not impossible. Just not common every night for everyone. If I'm going to go through the effort of a WILD meditation, I would rather do it in the middle of the night when I know my chances are best.

try it all if you are serious about LD and it's many benefits

On a normal sleep cycle with a one word answer: no.

It's not impossible because you can alter your sleep cycles, but there is no REM in the beginning of your sleep, and REM is the only time that you visually dream.

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It's not impossible because you can alter your sleep cycles, but there is no REM in the beginning of your sleep, and REM is the only time that you visually dream.

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you could try staying still for 2 hours right? thats about when REM starts

meditation = medicating :) i got a believe that we meditate in order to relax, whats excatlly relaxing us?i believe the human body works on a chemical and also a spiritual channelso to speak
just changeing from one channel to the other

you may be able to use binanural beats so help alter your sleep cycle to suit your needs but don't take my word for it because I have very minimal knowledge on the whole topic of sleep patterns and such