3rd attempt at WILD, insight appreciated

The thing is, I've always been in the habit of meditating. I'm fully awake and aware while meditating, but I'm often at a deep level of relaxation/concentration/awareness that falling asleep isn't an issue. Unfortunately, I've built the habit of keeping myself awake in deep relaxation(meditation), rather then consciously falling asleep(lucid dreaming). I'm currently learning how to do the latter.

I think I seriously just spent an hour trying to enter sleep paralysis. It was like 2 AM before I got to sleep though, so maybe all I need is some good rest? I did a Wake Back to Bed of like 4hours 30 mins, sipped some water, went to bathroom, then back to the bed. I went over relaxation techniques first to get myself relaxed. I then spent the next 30mins to an hour just laying, breathing, getting more and more relaxed, feeling my body get heavier and heavier, started seeing flashes of light in my visual perception and mini dream like images/scenes(hypnog. images probably?), but I still felt no physical sensations that lead to sleep paralysis.

Upon finally decided to call it a night, I paid particular attention to how my body felt upon shifting positions. When I moved my body I could tell it felt locked into its position, weighed down, relaxed, and constricted, so I needed to do a big stretch. It feels like my body was pretty close to sleep paralysis because initially it took more effort then normal to switch positions and I felt the above, but it was not FULL sleep paralysis.

You see as a kid I would wake up still in sleep paralysis stage sometimes, so I KNOW what it feels like to be in it fully, you can't move, you can't scream/yell...etc. However, I've never felt the in between stages of sleep paralysis, so I'm in a situation where I'm kinda sorta guessing what I should be feeling.

I've just got to do some more testing and figure out if its a matter of not being "disconnected" from my mind enough, or what?

I would love some insight on this.

As for now, the only thing I can really do is "keep doing it". Sure this was only my 3rd attempt and I don't really have room to complain, but I feel since I've been meditating since a kid it really helps with relaxation and everything. In reality, all I need to do, is just do it, and just keep doing it, and do it some more. It'll happen eventually. However, I believe with a better understanding I will be able to WILD sooner, rather then later. That's what I would love for this post to accomplish.

Thanks for your time

Well, first of all :welcome: to DV! Glad to hear your making some progress.. I do wanna say by being able to reach a state of relaxation such as above puts you ten steps ahead of most other people trying, so just keep it up. Also, hit up the tutorials section. Theres got to be 10 different WILD techniques (All very similar, so you can get the basic idea of what needs to happen)

I'll answer your questions the best I can, but these things tend to vary alot from person to person... Some claim not to feel any SP as where others can hit it in 5 minutes flat no problem. I have found you just need to try not to constrict yourself to one technique, but at the same time dont give up after one night and try something else to early.

Also, dont try to "induce" sleep paralysis because it really takes away from your (Or my I should say) concentration. If im sitting there having to ask myself how far in SP I am, theres usually a problem. It all comes very very naturally.

Anyways, personally I can hit SP in 10 mins.. Theres the odd time when it takes more or less, but as a generalization thats pretty bang on. The thing is I find that I have alot of trouble wilding if I am overly tired, or wide awake. I really feel this is why its important to customize your method/WBTB time.

When you wake up from a WBTB, you should really be in the kinda phase where if you had to get ready for work or something you would get out of bed without to much trouble.. but if it were a weekend you would curl right back up and fall asleep. If im to tired I fall sleep before transition, to awake and I lay there like a brick because my mind can't settle down. Again, this is how it works for me.. maybe your different.

I sounds like you were defiantly progressing through SP, so maybe you only needed a bit more time. Some people say laying in bed for over an hour is a very common thing while attempting a WILD, though I dont think you should give your whole night up the first few tries. If I sit on my ass all day, I find it kinda hard to relax as much/fast as I would if I was out all day doing physical activities.. keep that in mind :)

The theory on how wilds exactly happen is kinda hazy imo, because I almost always go from seemingly 100% awake into a wild.. So I dont really believe not being able to "fall asleep" while meditating should be much of a problem.. then again if it is, it is.. All I can say is dont try to hard.. that was my #1 problem personally, I think it goes hand in hand with why you cannot fall asleep/relax fully.

A couple of tutorials that really helped me early on are below.. Many others swear by Clarity's or Gesalt's method (Both of which are great to) and many others.. Like I said what works for some, may not work for others so keep an open mind and try new things.. but dont get over anxious. Its defiantly an acquired skill.

Seeker's WILD Turorial
AllInYourHead's how to fail a wild
Billy Bob's Universal Wild Tutorial

I'll try to help with my own WILD experiences and try to shed some light on some potential problems that may be preventing you from getting the process more easily. Keep in mind of course that this is just my opinion ;)

Shady makes some pretty good points here. If you're thinking about SP too much, your body is sort of "missing the point". That sort of applies to every aspect of trying to WILD. Allow me to elaborate.

See, the difficult part about WILD, in my opinion, is that you're awake trying to go immediately into the dream state. Obvious, right? Well the reason it is difficult starting out, is because everyone seems to make the mistake of thinking too much! This may be different for other people, but for me, the more I think about the process, the more I find myself instinctively asking/running through a checklist in my mind-

"is this sp? am i getting close? i wonder if this is it? oh! somethings happening! oh this surely must be something significant, ok lets see, remember, ok step 1...uh...lets see step 2...good good..."

No! Take your inner-monologue and push the mute button! Of course its important to remember the "phases" of a WILD (as you will find in the tutorials thread--excellently written btw) but do so in a passive manner. If you try to break down WILD into steps, I think that is what will cause failure. Why? Because you'll get sidetracked.

When you're fully conscious, you can have an idea about something, and go off into the little details about it and still come back to the original point. When you are semi-conscious or trying to reach the dreamstate, your consciousness is in a different state, and if it wanders, it can stay gone for a long time. It's very hard to keep your mind focused on a THING in this state anyway, so for that reason, it's critical that you shut off that annoying inner-voice.

It's really hard to explain what I mean, perhaps someone here can elaborate for me, the way your post was written suggests to me that perhaps your failure is coming from concentrating to hard on the steps. In my experience, WILD comes much easier when you just let it happen. So try this- it works for me, it doesn't work for some others, it might work for you.

You mentioned that you practice meditating, which will help you alot. You have to separate yourself from the experience, as if you are someone else watching the steps happen. You are an observer. If you feel a sensation, acknowledge that you feel it, and nothing more. The problem comes when you say, "oh! this must be sp! ok now i just try to wait for the transitional phase..."

I think it would be beneficial for you to practice silencing your mind. Separate yourself from your minds wandering thoughts. Don't try to shut them up, just observe them. It's an odd concept, but once you know how to do it, it will make WILDing MUCH easier for you. Hope this helps ;)

Thank you both for those equally great replies. This morning in my session I came to that same conclusion rainman. The key things that helped me this session was:
1)feeling and allowing myself to become as sleepy or as close to sleep as possible.
2)not allowing any "vocalizations"(which there were tons of), and
3)also to not get carried away in HI. It was a mental battle, my HI scenes are so intresting my disipline breaks and I get absorbed in them. I then become aware that I'm absorbed in it, correct that, and then it starts over lol.

But at least now I understand the concept of not allowing "vocalization" and only observing the HI, not letting any thought stem from them. I still love the clound analogy. If HI scene appears, become aware of it, and then allow it to pass by your mind like a cloud. Thats how it works for me, my HI's are seconds long, little mini things. I swear if I have HI and its about something that doesnt keep my attention/peak my intrest for 5+ seconds, the bloody HI ends, and then immediatly starts another one completly different once again trying to absorb me :? .

How do you guys come to being as "sleepy" as possible in this postion(the goal is to approach the sleep stage), not identify with HI or get lost in thought, and not vocalize anything all the while remaining conciously aware? By the time these 3 things were happening I was soo close to a sleep stage and so sleepy that I no longer had the will/concentration to keep myself from drifting off in thought of HI's/self vocalization, and I just wanted to sleep. So I rolled over and did.

Avoiding "vocalization" is something that I recommend practicing in a time separate from trying to LD. Just set aside 30 minutes to meditate and practice specifically keeping your mind quiet. Practice in a place where you will hear noise. Not excessive noise of course, but enough that might yank your mind to a different place. Practice just cutting the thoughts off without "vocalizing" anything. No mantras, nothing. Just silence.

Someone might yell at someone else outside. Your first instinct will be to say,

"Hey I wonder if there is a fight outside or something"

You can't expect yourself to be able to cut out that whole sentence all at once. Just work on stopping it as soon as you can.

"Hey I wonder if there ?? ? ????? ???????"

Will be come-

"Hey I wonder ?? ????? ?? ? ????? ????"

"Hey I ?????? ?? ?????? ?? ? ????? ????"

"Hey ???? ?????????? ???????"

"??? ? ?????? ?? ????? ??"

Get my drift? Just cut it off.

As for becoming sleepy, without completely losing consciousness or drifting off into sleep, it can be tricky, but it's all related. Think about it. Become sleepy, but stay awake.

How do we most frequently go to sleep? Do most people go to sleep by intentially clearing their minds of thoughts and vocalizations? No! In my experience, it is EXACTLY the opposite. Don't focus on being consciously aware! That's thinking. If you just clear your thoughts, and cut off vocalizations before they are formed, your body WILL fall asleep (mainly because it will do so anyway if you are completely inactive for a long period of time) but the vocalizations and HI and random thoughts are what PUT you to sleep!

Your mind jumps from thing to thing. Things become ideas, ideas become scenes, and scenes become full dreamstates in which we are completely unaware. Why? If you ask me, it is because we get INVOLVED in the HI an inner monologue.

A picture forms of a pretty girl.

"Wow she's pretty, I wouldn't mind going out with her."

Then she might talk to you. You're wondering what she's thinking etc. Then it becomes a dream. you got involved. Cut off those vocalizations. As for the HI, simply observe from a distance. Some people would say that you should lightly focus on the HI until it becomes a dreamscene that you put yourself into. That has almost never worked for me, but does work for a LOT of people, so you could consider that option too.

Your body will fall asleep but your mind will not completely. The biggest thing to work on is not thinking about the process. Just sort of let it happen. ;)

You said you could see flashes of light and imagery and stuff but you couldn't get into the sensations of sleep paralysis. This happens to me a lot, I try to imagine the sensations, I try to bring them on myself. Try this:

Imagine your bed slowly tipping backwards.

When the bed is at a good slant, try to "push" (not physically at all) yourself down the slope.

Thats what triggers SP for me, I go on a crazy as hell roller coaster ride sensation, then I feel as if I'm back in my bed, in SP. Then I can usually enter a WILD.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rainman

the vocalizations and HI and random thoughts are what PUT you to sleep!

Your mind jumps from thing to thing. Things become ideas, ideas become scenes, and scenes become full dreamstates in which we are completely unaware.

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This is exactly what I was going to say. The flashes of HI scenes are what bring about sleep. Thats the difference between being deeply relaxed and falling completely asleep. You have to lose consciousness by engaging with a dream or an HI scene. That is the only way to fall asleep.

The way to do it consciously, is what C suggested:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by C°°

I try to imagine the sensations, I try to bring them on myself. Try this:

Imagine your bed slowly tipping backwards.

When the bed is at a good slant, try to "push" (not physically at all) yourself down the slope.

---

This is one way, using tactile sensations (my favorite also :) ). You can also use visual sensations, or any sense that you chose. Basically, you want to create your own Hypnagogia to get involved with. If it is of your choosing, you can do it consciously.

It seems like you have a good handle on how you fall asleep. If you can recognize the HI, you are really close to WILDing. Now either find a way to create your own HI through visualization, or find a way to enter the HI that your brain comes up with on its own.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rainman

I'll try to help with my own WILD experiences and try to shed some light on some potential problems that may be preventing you from getting the process more easily. Keep in mind of course that this is just my opinion ;)

Shady makes some pretty good points here. If you're thinking about SP too much, your body is sort of "missing the point". That sort of applies to every aspect of trying to WILD. Allow me to elaborate.

See, the difficult part about WILD, in my opinion, is that you're awake trying to go immediately into the dream state. Obvious, right? Well the reason it is difficult starting out, is because everyone seems to make the mistake of thinking too much! This may be different for other people, but for me, the more I think about the process, the more I find myself instinctively asking/running through a checklist in my mind-

"is this sp? am i getting close? i wonder if this is it? oh! somethings happening! oh this surely must be something significant, ok lets see, remember, ok step 1...uh...lets see step 2...good good..."

No! Take your inner-monologue and push the mute button! Of course its important to remember the "phases" of a WILD (as you will find in the tutorials thread--excellently written btw) but do so in a passive manner. If you try to break down WILD into steps, I think that is what will cause failure. Why? Because you'll get sidetracked.

When you're fully conscious, you can have an idea about something, and go off into the little details about it and still come back to the original point. When you are semi-conscious or trying to reach the dreamstate, your consciousness is in a different state, and if it wanders, it can stay gone for a long time. It's very hard to keep your mind focused on a THING in this state anyway, so for that reason, it's critical that you shut off that annoying inner-voice.

It's really hard to explain what I mean, perhaps someone here can elaborate for me, the way your post was written suggests to me that perhaps your failure is coming from concentrating to hard on the steps. In my experience, WILD comes much easier when you just let it happen. So try this- it works for me, it doesn't work for some others, it might work for you.

You mentioned that you practice meditating, which will help you alot. You have to separate yourself from the experience, as if you are someone else watching the steps happen. You are an observer. If you feel a sensation, acknowledge that you feel it, and nothing more. The problem comes when you say, "oh! this must be sp! ok now i just try to wait for the transitional phase..."

I think it would be beneficial for you to practice silencing your mind. Separate yourself from your minds wandering thoughts. Don't try to shut them up, just observe them. It's an odd concept, but once you know how to do it, it will make WILDing MUCH easier for you. Hope this helps ;)

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Awesome post! Very helpful (and funny too). Thanks. :)

Heh thanks ;) I hope it helps you

Nice threads, lots of v interesting posts on WILDing, cleared up some things for me.. maybe you guys can help me with my problem

Each time I get sucked into a dream I kinda lose awareness for a very small second, and then I realize that I was attempting a WILD, I see the dream, very clear, and I wake up. It's like each time I realize I'm in a dream, I get thrown back into my body. I can get into the dream now, but I can't stay in it. Every time I realize I'm dreaming, I remember I'm actually laying in bed, and I wake up. To me it seems like being aware it is a dream breaks my dreams.

How do you cross the border between awake and sleep? How does it feel like for you? How is your awareness during the crossing of the border between sleep and awake? Are you fully aware or do you also lose awareness for a lil bit? And any suggestions on what I'm doing wrong? How do I stay into the dream world and not get pulled back into the real world? Do you also get this sucking sensation when your dream kicks in, just as if you're getting sucked into your dream?