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Hello everyone,
I'm just getting back into LDing and I'm having a problem with WILD I hoped y'all could assist me with. Every time my body gets numb and gets closer to SP, I can't help but swallow at least once, and then it seems my body loses the numbness and I start over again. My question is:
Does swallowing really halt a WILD? I read that any conscious effort during a WILD tells your body that you're still awake, thus stops it from going to sleep itself.
THANKS!
i cant help but swallow too and it felt if it restarted
same i always swallow and i read you can prop your head up to stop you swallowing but this didn't help me, i tend to leave it until the last minute and i swallow as a reflex rather than a conscious effort.
Let me ask you something; do you lay perfectly 100% still when you normally just try to fall asleep? No. Swallowing or scratching an itch is not going to prevent you from WILDing, it is a minor distractiion and within 3 seconds you should forget about it. Boom, your done.
If you sit there desperately wanting to scratch that incredibly annoying itch your going to be bothered and distracted for several minutes. If anything THAT would wake you up because your body is going "Wtf is wrong, this is annoying why aren't you fixing it..?".. all the while your spamming your own heads with thoughts of it; as you fight this overwhelming urge to preform a natural body function.
The only reason it will take you out of the "zone" is because you think it will. I used to as well. You just need to realize that WILDing does not requre staying awake in bed all night; you literally are falling asleep just as anyone else is.. you simply hang on for a few seconds longer. The only way you can distinguish when or how to do so is remain in the phase between sleep and wakefulness. No one can tell you how to do this. After a while you will simply begin to recognize it.
This takes practice; for some it takes days and others months. Most are somewhere in between including myself. Basically you need to work on consciously staying awake longer in the transition itself on a nightly basis. (This does not mean your laying awake in bed for 15 minutes one night, then 30 another... 45 after etc). This might mean your awake for 5 minutes and 14 second, then 5 minutes and 28 seconds.. and no you do not need to time it; you will know if it is progress. The actual transition from awake-asleep does not take more then 30 seconds for me.. getting there takes 5-20 minutes (Doing almost exactly the same thing I would do on a "regular night"; except at the last few minutes when I would normally lose myself in unconscious sleep. This is when I begin focusing on my breathing/visualization.)
All I can suggest is dont get caught up on all the specifics you read in tutorials. Absorb their information like a sponge but take it with a grain of salt; everyone is different.
Shady:
I've successfully WILDed before, I've been with DV for over a year. It's just now that I've taken a break and restarted, I have this new swallowing problem. I thought it must be one of the reasons I'm having this newfound trouble.
I just wanted to mention: when you go to sleep normally, you lose consciousness before entering SP right? When you're unconscious, you don't move at all, not even to swallow... any conscious movement ceases. Doesn't this mean that if you want to simulate this experience, you have to "act" unconscious, i.e. ignore all urges to make conscious movement?
Thanks for your replies everyone
Quote:
Originally Posted by N2MDJ
When you are asleep you will continue to swallow your saliva. If not, you would drool all over your mouth. Your body doesn't stop working because you are asleep. The only way swallowing would ruin your SP is if you let it get to you.
"Normal swallowing happens about twice a minute while awake, and about once in 5 minutes while asleep. We actually produce less saliva during sleep, hence less frequent swallowing."
Yeah Ive noticed that urge too. I thought I was the only one with this problem in fact. But I just try to enter wilds breathing through nose if I can help it. Ive noticed that this helps somewhat. Other than that I try to do what Shady does.
Glad to hear, just thats one of the most common misconceptions among people when they learn to WILD.. I didnt mean to come off rude or whatever just due to the lack of information of past experience and not a huge amount of posts (Like myself) led me to wrongfully assume that you gave up last time. :bslap:
From what I understand that is the case yeah; its hard to tell considering I'm not technically "there" to test it when it does happen although it would make a whole lot of sense. It would also make alot of sense why people experience the "old hag" syndrome so suddenly because they drift off they wake up into it; although they might miss the actual feeling of loss of consciousness.Quote:
I just wanted to mention: when you go to sleep normally, you lose consciousness before entering SP right?
I dont think this is the case, although maybe the body has this conditioned into it in terms of an accelerator. (It recognizes the loss of consciousness as a trigger to say "Ok make use of this time to get all the rest you can." and so maybe that causes the body to fall asleep faster. However I really dont believe your body is stupid enough to make consistent use of "faking sleeping".. Quite frankly its very hard to actually lie or trick yourself for any sort of long term, if at all.Quote:
When you're unconscious, you don't move at all, not even to swallow... any conscious movement ceases. Doesn't this mean that if you want to simulate this experience, you have to "act" unconscious, i.e. ignore all urges to make conscious movement?
I do not believe we are bricks as we sleep. I personally constantly have blinks/spikes of consciousness while falling asleep. If there's ambient noise like a fan running in the background I will suddenly notice I don't hear it; and as soon as I think of that it "turns back on". Its not that I hear it turn 'off'; I just realize its not there at one point or another. Not to mention constant brief awakenings that I miss during the night to reposition.. If you need any proof fix a video camera on yourself overnight; it will be boring as hell to watch but I guarantee you move more then you think you do. If you can move at night to reposition yourself and fall back asleep so immediately without even being aware of it happening how can swallowing even effect you. Because you don't care about the movement when it happens at this stage, and you have built up the swallowing on a pedestal; thinking its going to kill your attempts. (Maybe you haven't (yet ;)) but most people do.) I believe being in the proper frame of mind is everything; external stimuli can be very distracting, especially when you think it will be.
The long story short is that either way the body and mind fall do not fall asleep perfectly in sync. This is what the method feeds on; not the fact that it "usually" goes the other way around. A big point to make here is neither of them are going to go if you are really worked up about the whole situation; if you are to excited your going to lay in bed for hours. Even if you hit SP your mind will be going a mile a minute and you just wont be able to actually fall asleep.
And last but not least; you are not simulating anything. You are doing it, just differently. Trying to "induce sleep" is a very hard thing to do.. an even harder thing to do is to trick yourself. Sitting there telling yourself you will fall asleep because your lying still just isn't going to happen.
You will be annoyed/distracted from itches and such.. Constantly asking "Am I in sp? What was that? Am I there yet??" etc etc.. Not to mention the fact that you really aren't going to know what hit you when the time comes because you wont be ready and focused enough for it; and you will simply fall into 'regular sleep'.
I think alot of WILDers can relate to the nights where you seemingly lay in bed waiting for hours.. then when you decide to give up, roll over and get comfortable.. you fall asleep within a few minutes.. Well.. Personally the latter is the first step I take and simply progressively and passively observe my state of mind and just know when its time to get ready. From there its no more then 2 minutes till I am in a juicy LD. (Unless I suck that night :P)
Hope you could pull some sort of answer out of that mess; WILD's are a very individual thing.. although a good universal rule imo is moving does not prevent sleep; the urges to do so will.
Shady, what you say makes so much sense to me, i am always trying to keep still worried if i am moving, or relaxed enough and wishing that itch would go away soon...i never get anywhere when trying to WILD so im going to try it your way tonight and see what happens.
A quick question, you said you go to sleep normally until the last few minutes before you fall asleep, how do you know when this is? normally i will just fall into a daydream and then fall asleep without becoming aware again until im asleep?
Woot, I knew it would make sense to someone! :P "My" way might not work for you, never give up on anything to soon.. And no matter what you do always take an open mind to it. Do no expect results; especially not specifics because that can prevent you from learning new things due to the fact that you overlook them waiting for others.
Unfortunately there is nothing I can say that will make you realize the stage; and be able to control it. Practice, practice! As far as I know what happens generally is you get very indulged in some random thought, then you lose consciousness. Try to not get over involved with any random thoughts and dont let your mind wander to far. Drawing the line is a personal thing.
Ideally just on a night to night basis try to stay conscious a bit longer as you fall asleep.. dont try to stay awake but just focus on something very consistent when you feel like your slipping away (A vivid mental image, breathing/counting, maybe imagining a dream scenario etc).. Try to avoid physical sensations like what your hands feel like right then.. but feel free to imagine something textile like perhaps rubbing your hand on concrete or something.. the list could go on and this is where experience comes in. I generally just let my body do its thing for a few minutes and when I start feeling dips/blinks in awareness I know im almost ready. Perhaps the only reason I experience these is because in just naturally aware of what my intentions are at this point; and I am checking behind the scenes. In other words I lose myself in these thoughts but I subconsciously do a form of a reality check, which brings me out of it temporarily ready to fall right back in. Maybe Im that awesome; I couldnt tell you. :(
The amount of concentration or stimuli needed really varies; personally all I need to do nowadays is focus on relaxing my breathing and I generally preform some sort of motion/tactile sensation (Rolling out of bed or maybe running down my hallway) and then Im out. At this stage the hypnagogia is coming on strong so it usually happens on the fly to be honest.. more often then not I feel the sensation of falling and I end up falling through the blackness into the dream. I just know where to draw the line for myself; sorry I cant be much more help. Its all happened through just trying new things.