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Sometimes the REM systems don’t turn on or off at the same time. For example, you may awaken partially from REM sleep, before the paralysis system turns off, so that your body is still paralyzed even though you are otherwise awake. Sleep paralysis, as this condition is called, can occur while people are falling asleep (rarely) or waking up (more frequently).
Well I already knew you can wake up and still be in SP Shift....which I would guess is what I experienced, if only for a very brief overlap.
But I'm still interested in determining the commonality of the "physical" experience.
The physical experience? Like the actual muscle paralysis? And do you mean like a ratio? I guess that would depend on the individual. Probably somewhere there is a person anal enough to keep track of SP experiences upon awakening or upon falling asleep. I've had it while awakening probably 8 times in my life, and falling asleep once, when I did try to get out of bed and couldn't, I'd realized I'd forgotten to set my alarm clock and couldn't get up to turn it on! :tongue: I know that blacks are more likely to get it for some reason, too, there are a zillion articles about it for some reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshine
Your still talking about the "hag" experience.
I'm still talking about the commonly understood definition within the lucid dreaming community.
That or, if it makes you feel better, the physical experiences leading up to SP proper.
Im talking about the numbness, the warm tingling wave, and the vibrations....all commonly reported symptoms
of WILD attempts. Pretty much as I said in my original post.
If we agree to disagree on terminology theres a change we might get some constructive feedback.
That's easy enough; the warm, tingling wave and vibrations are called hypnagogic hallucinations.Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshine
didn't ask what they're called mate.
Do you think its realistic that we all have the same hallucinations as we enter SP? I suspect not. There is no doubt that the vibrations are in the mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor
But they are common to many. As is the initial tingly wave before SP proper.
This sequence of events is what I want to get to the bottom of.
So I had a short lucid last night.
I ended up flying over rooftops. I realised I was flying on a matress.
I woke up and I was lying face down on my bed.
Yet again, I had the pins and needles numbness in my arms and legs.
Is this just due to low blood pressure maybe?
If you're wide awake and getting this, even once you're moving around in your bed and out of bed, I'd say it's just your sleeping position or low blood pressure or a circulation problem or something, most likely not a sleep thing. I get that sometimes, if my limb is at an odd angle or thrown over the pillow it will be complete jello when I wake up :shock: or sometimes they will just be tingly-numb like they've gone to sleep. I have really low blood pressure, I sort of always assumed it was a combo of that and the angle.Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshine
The worst is when I get up out of bed too fast and pass out from the low blood pressure :shock:
I'm starting to think you may well be right. This does seem to come on before I feel any of the SP waves. Yet, whilst this may not be part of the SP onset, it is still legitimately a physical event which you might encounter on the way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shift
So that leaves the inital tingling wave, and then the big SP wave.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqlhkPkpNMM
Found a short vid on you cube from the famous Saltcube DVD.
Describing how SP can be used to enter lucid dreams (or OBE's as they call it).
Describes two things quite cleary.
1) SP is often felt as a wave rising from feet to head (I have experienced this myself).
2) Partial sleep paralysis is quite common. You can move, but only with difficulty, like moving through wax.
A number of posters who have described partial sleep paralysis have been subject to some scorn.
Allow me to offer an alternative comment: Your on the right tracks. Keep at it.
Just this morning i was really tired.
I stayed up all night, and then in the morning i knew i had to go to work in a few hours, so i didn't let my self fall asleep completely. I just tried to dream and stay "Awake" Or "Aware".
I started getting the imagery I normally get before i lucid dream, pretty much right away.
As soon as i started getting the images and seeing dreams start to appear, i noticed my body went into SP pretty quickly.
I got completely paralyzed as soon as the images started appearing.
I of course have no slept since then haha, i got maybe a hour of rest.
So well anyways, my point of this post, SP can happen in different ways.
However, what moonshine said orginaly holds true to me for the most part.
When ever i goto bed at night, and i lay down and i go into SP, thats pretty much how it happens each time.
Unless i'm really tired like i was this morning.
hey, if your saying that you dont have to get to sp before you can become lucid, then how do you know when you can become lucid? what do i feel before going into the dream and how do i go about doing this? i dont feel sp very often and when i do its a fluke one night but whenever i try i get no feelings really apart from numbness then give up, so how do i go from there to a lucid dream without the sp? thanks
http://www.dreamviews.com/sleepstages.phpQuote:
Originally Posted by lozbritt
http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=62769
http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=66238 (see the bottom for even more)
man i really want to expereince ture sleep parlysis i usually fall alsleep before it kicks in...:(
I never found them that exciting... You just can't move. And then you can. I never had any hallucinations or PRES along with it, just pure dilute SP. I dunno I was always intrigued because I didn't know what it was, but in and of itself I don't think it's that great. Rather disturbing if you imagine waking up because your smoke detectors are going off and you can't move :shock: I always worried that was going to happen, I didn't realize that they don't usually last over a few minutes max. But I guess one benefit is that you can marginally relate to people who have real paralysis :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Garjzla
Hypnic jerks are weirder but more fun to me lmao
For me its different, if i wake up in SP, or i wake up, lay back down and go into SP. I can stay in it indefinably it doesn't stop for me. I can even wake up a little bit, stand my turso up, then lay back down, and go right back into SP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shift
Once i get it, it doesn't go away, and it can be a bit annoying, because sometimes in SP i get really scared. And i just want it to go away, but i don't want to get out of bed.
So i each time i lay down, my body goes right back into SP lol.
I'm like half asleep, so each time i sit up, then lay back down, i keep going into SP and having to come back out. So its like a back and forth battle until i wake up enough to get up and walk the SP off.
I find the same thing happens. It is like I get in the zone, and can then easily enter or exit the paralysis repeatedly.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoon
Ah, I was talking about common sleep paralysis, since it's pretty clear Garjlza doesn't get isolated sleep paralysis :)Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoon
I found the attached which seems to be a pretty good guide.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shift
http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=65007
Don't get me started :(Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshine
Now. I really know, what is sleep paralysis episode. At least hypnopompic one. But my question would be. Is there a difference between technique induced state and the state you get when you have that old hag episode?
I cannot compare, becouse I never managed to enter my lucid dream with help of WILD and had few "old hag" experiences while waking up?
Maybe clearing this would help us to progress further ... Thenx for responses. :D
I didn't get further than the second sentence of that guide before I found a blatant falsehood: "[Sleep paralysis is] a necessity for dreaming [...]" Wrong! Sleep paralysis, under any common interpretation, is definitely not a necessity for dreaming.Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshine
Under the heading "What Sleep Paralysis Feels Like" you can find, among other things, a feeling that you're floating on water and a feeling of heaviness. These are, along with the often mentioned tingling, normal symptoms of relaxation.
The most informative statement of that article is probably that "Many lucid dreamers report nothing at all, with both WILD and DEILD techniques. It is not uncommon to be laying in your bed and then suddenly be in a dream with no feeling of sleep paralysis at all."
The remaining symptoms are vibrations, falling, and static charges, which are common forms of hypnagogic hallucinations.
If you want a good WILD guide, read one of BillyBob's guides.
Oh yeah. No illusions. Just pure and simple waiting :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Thor
I think what you mean is that attaining SP prior to dreaming is not neccesary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor
This won't be news to most. It is well know that there are other techniques.
There can be little doubt that SP must be induced whilst you are dreaming.
Otherwise, as you're running around in your dream you will be bouncing of the walls in your bedroom also. Seems pretty "essential" to me.