has anyone ever experienced this? how does it work? what are all the possibilities with this?
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has anyone ever experienced this? how does it work? what are all the possibilities with this?
This should be in Beyond Dreaming. I am of the persuasion that shared dreaming is impossible because there is no solid evidence to support it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kookyinc
This. :)
Moved to BD. You'll get a more targeted response here :)
EDIT: Seems another DG moved it while I was making this post :P
Dream sharing although hard to proove is very real! The possibilities are endless. You should read nomads shared dreaming tutorial here
It works like meeting people in waking life, except, you have to travel through wormholes.
Not everything that exists is easy to prove from a scientific standpoint. And even when it has been proven; the evidence is usually rejected if it's paranormal. The Monroe Institute has proven that people can meet up in non-physical reality; they have proven this to US Military personal. Their research helped spawn project Stargate.Quote:
Originally Posted by kookyinc
In my experiences; I have shared dreams with 12 people during my life. In that time, I have talked with friends who have shared dreams with family members. I had the uncanny experience to be at my work standing by three girls who started talking about a dream and watched enjoying the group coming to a realization that they had all dreamed the same dream.
What made it fascinating was the fact that the dream had some very exaggerated dream symbolism making the details extremely subjectively rare; nearly impossible that all three could have dreamed the same symbolism as well.
Why is this not so common? Oh well maybe because 99.999% of the planet is dream illiterate? People treat dreams as being nonsensical, meaningless tripe. And when they do... actually do take an interest in dreaming; they try to use dreaming to satisfy fantasies and desires.
Finally, this is something I have observed countless times: in mutual encounters, if the other person lacks any cognitive function and awareness they appear as if in a catatonic zombie like state where they are unable to respond to questions. My friend and I called it "sleeper's grog" slang for being void of left-brain function and awareness. Vegetative at best.
When someone finally snaps out of it, gives you attention the potential for a mutual experience increases but they can still personify the dreamstate meaning overlay you being there with another dream. If that personification doesn't happen, they still have to deal with waking induced amnesia when dream memory collapses. If they lack dream recall then the likelihood of remembering the encounter consciously is reduced.
How do I know this? In the small group of people I managed to break through all these challenges; there were countless other attempts that failed miserably due to the difficult challenges of dream illiteracy, lack of awareness, personification and memory on their part. I have told people information that they told me in a potentially mutual dream that did have relevance to their lives; but they don't even remember the dream encounter.
There is the potential to share dreams; this exists as probability only. It will be in the distant future; that humanity will be more adept at this ability as we evolve it. Right now; we are the pioneers and it's not an easy feat for even adapt dreamers to achieve consistently the non-linear and non-localized nature of dream reality is not the same as our physical reality and we cannot expect what we do physically to also do in a dream; the behavior of these two states are totally opposite.
Optimal mutual dreaming conditions occur when a synchronicity happens: Both dreamers are in the dreamstate at the same time with the same level of lucid awareness. Both dreamers actively remember their dreams. Both dreamers know each other and can confirm details shortly after waking up.
What do you think will happen if dreamer 1 is lucid in an REM state and dreamer 2 is unconscious in NREM in deep sleep delta... what chances of a shared dream exist there?
None.
It's nearly impossible because of our ignorance regarding the dreamstate and the massive problem of dream illiteracy that this planet suffers from. Yet if you are lucky enough to have friends with at least some measure of interest in lucid dreaming; or dreaming in general the chances of this encounter increase greatly from those friends who simply don't.
Amazing.
I want to hear more about your experiences with shared dreaming.Quote:
Originally Posted by YAD
I have never experienced a catatonic state from other dreamers in shared dreams. This is interesting.
It's true that a lot of the populace is "dream illiterate," and when lucid dreaming is discovered, it's often used just for fun, and not anything more.
Many people are close minded to the idea of shared dreaming. Once people become more open minded, it will become as common an idea as lucid dreaming.
What do you mean by "personification?"
It makes sense that optimal shared dreaming conditions have all dreamers asleep in the same state at the same time. In my experience, this is unnecessary.
I discovered the potential when I was a teenager back in 1988 when I was actively going OBE and Lucid Dreaming. It was chance that I bumped into a friend I knew so decided to hang out and talk with him. It was this event that later turned out to be a shared dream. In the morning I called this person and we both verified setting, location, conversation filling in the blanks. Both of us where in shock, we had just realized mutually that something spectular, impossible, and amazing had happened between us. We shared a dream.Quote:
Originally Posted by WakingNomad
Many more followed with this person and other people. For how active I have been in the LDE the results however are very low. Enough to fully satisfy my curiosity and knowledge that we can share dreams in the most literal of sense. This is not a wishful belief or delusion; it is very real.
This may be how I filter in the data from the dream and render it. In certain shared dreams, my above meantioned friend would be found in this state. He has reported finding me in that state. When in that state the shared dream is null. If we can get a focused attention or logical response then it seems that awareness and cognitive function helps lock in the shared dream experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by WakingNomad
As teenagers my friend and I called this "Sleeper's Grog" a slang for being dream drunk as that is what it seemed to appear as. In my quest to share more dreams, I encountered nearly everyone I cared for and knew in some level of this catatonic like state wandering aimlessly about.
In the context of a mutual dream; when certain emotional responses to the data cause the other participant to react they can blow up a dream bubble that personifies the mutual exchange; so that to me they appear catatonic again; and to them... they are fulfilling a fantasy or desire or fear. Think of it as a natural fear response mechanism.Quote:
Originally Posted by WakingNomad
We have confirmed this in several exchanges when my friend for example looses control and dreams something totally different right in front of me; I still see them normally but the person drops back into sleeper's grog and personifies the information with their own filter so too speak.
I will have to agree, there is a non-linear problem that also exists. Time is not the same time during dreamtime as it can be anytime. It is not following the chronological order of our physical life. Precognitive dreams and an excellent example of how dreams exist outside our physical space/time continuum.Quote:
Originally Posted by WakingNomad
Now I have a different view of how it works. It seems to me like everyone has their own Inner World, a giant Dream Bubble in which one can experience a land of infinite vastness, but no sentient being unless you invite them in (I hope!). All these personal dream bubbles, or Inner Worlds are floating in a infinitely huge Dream-Multiverse.
We can go into each others' Inner Worlds, or we can meet outside in the Dreamworld Multiverse "public" area.
I think it works but some invisible energy that we cannot detect with our scientific instruments.
Just to say, the same could of been said about lucid dreaming over 40 years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by kookyinc
However people still persued it felt they had valied experiences despite being told by the world it was impossible.
Just been reading robert Waggoners books. I feel lucky to of started lucid dreaming in a time where it was seen as "real"
Maybe one day we will see a similar shift for shared dreaming, however maybe not, I have no idea ;)
I have recently discovered the same thing while sharing dreams with my daughter. This 'sleepers grog' The first time I we met we decided to have a meeting place, but when I got there I found she was standing there talking to a group of her friend who were clearly impressed with something she had just done. When I tried talking to her she seemed to only sort of be aware of me - more like she was aware that somebody was there but was not important to her current dream. I looked at her face and it was strange, it shifted and made her look different - so I shook her calling out her name and then she was 'snapped out of it' we then went onto go into a 'cowboy dream' which was pretty fun. When she woke she told me about a dream she was having before she met me, about how she gave something to her friend and all of her friends around her were clearly impressed with what she had done and surrounded her - much like how I found her in the dream.Quote:
Originally Posted by YAD
We all seem to perceive things differently within the dreaming, both on a symbolic level and also in accordance with our skill level. I have heard in the past that people who are dreaming can be found in this catatonic state, like a zombie, but it is also curious to note that Nomad has never seen this before (and neither have I) - both are true and happening, we are just perceiving/'translating' the information in front of us differently for some reason. I would love to gather in of the shared dreamers and experienced lucid dreamers and gather all of this information together to create a working hypothesis of how shared dreaming actually works and what is needed from a person in order to successfully share dreams
For instance, just yesterday I came across a random dreamer (while dreaming) who at first I thought was a DC, then quickly realised he was a real person (and felt kinda embarassed that I assumed he was a DC) he had told me about how he did not like to create portals because it attracted 'unwanted attention' - what do you make of this Nomad? Have you had any problems in the past with negative entities being attracted to your location when creating portals?
I just got to thinking. If Shared dreaming were actually proved scientificly and therefore an accepted occurence, would this therefore prove that the conciousness "leaves" the body? Or could you still explain it away a different way?
I am 99% sure that this would not be the case. Despite the universal hypothesis which has been around for centuries and is the one common thread through-out most religions (that we have a soul) science would call it something like 'quantum entanglement' to explain shared dreams.Quote:
Originally Posted by samsailboatsayl
The day that science steps into the boundaries of religion/spiritualism is the day everything will change!
I have been practicing my dream control since the age of 4 (now 25) and have success with extreme dream control, time dilation, and shared dreaming. Even after all of the practice that has been put in, I still have little control over the SDs. So far I have 16 confirmed SDs where they sent a secret password to a secret email I only give out in dreams, and yet so far it is all random. I havn't had much luck with targeting individuals and can't do this every time I will it to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by YAD
So yes, despite all the effort I have put in, SDs are very difficult to make happen on command and there are still a lot of kinks to work out for now.
Back on topic though, what do you guys think about quantum entanglement?
I have 'help' of some kind. I don't even attempt to cause or control it, other than the general choices I make about my interests and values.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mylynes
We had an extensive argument about this recently on another thread. I eventually agreed that entanglement can in principle correlate an event with a future event. However, I still don't believe this is how premonitions (or shared dreams) work. Having 'slept on it' for a few weeks, I still think the problem of deciphering all the information is too difficult by a vast amount. To use an analogy, the light bouncing around in your room in principle contains information about the rest of the world, and in fact a dream researcher recently proposed that this is how shared dreaming works. But there's no way to extract and reconstruct the signal from all the noise. I think its not possible even in principle. Entanglement has the same problem. I think that people reach for 20th century physics as a possible answer because its difficult to understand, which makes it mysterious and difficult to disprove wild ideas. I think the more a person knows about physics the less plausible it seems though. Maybe entanglement is a small aspect of what's going on, but it doesn't come even remotely close to accounting for the phenomena in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mylynes
There seems to be a process of 'finding' another person in a shared dream. For me its almost entirely a subconscious process, but I think there is a process because sometimes its worked into the early part of the dream.
Be careful people, its rather easy to confuse yourself between reality and dreams. I know a man who drove himself crazy. He was so addicted to lucid dreaming that he eventually couldnt distinguish between tge real world and the dream world... He has told me some awesome stories though, about his adventures. Really fascinating stories.:)
In lucid dream I know I'm in dream, how could I lose that knowledge? However in normal dream I don't know that I'm dreaming and that could be the moment when I could confuse myself.
If you do this on a daily basis you gradually develop a need for lucid dreaming. Its like you are addicted to it. I mean you start to realize that you prefer the dream world instead of the real world. This is normal since everyone would prefer a world in which he himself is the creator and can control everything. My point is that if you do this for a long time you may start to confuse your memories between reality and dream and this is not good. Trust me its just not good. How do you think mad people became mad? Maybe some of them were massive fans of lucid dreaming. I am just saying be careful and take it easy with lucid dreams cause once you realize the possibilities, its really hard to let go...Quote:
Originally Posted by Psionik
Nope. I don't prefer dreams. Dreams are imagined, I need reality. I like dreaming, but not as replacement...
I would say, I like LD more than normal dreams, I would gladly exchange normal dreams for LD. Control everything in LD??? :D I would like that. Reality is different. It is hard work to get full control of dream, I manage partial control though. Hey, I'm as normal guy as majority... I don't need any form of long time escapism. LD is more or less as long as normal dream. Nothing wrong with it.
I would take out of body experience over any LD too :) . Again quite hard to have an addiction. It is hard work to learn it, to learn about your body, how to relaxate it, how to use your mind. How to concentrate... How to separate. I train that for nearly 30 years. But I can't manage many OBEs through week. I managed as much as 10 in week when I was younger... now it is down to 1-5 a month maybe... plus minus :) Life got more difficult as I got my own family :) And with it the right concentration got harder to reach.
People fear of very strange things. Mainly things they know nothing about. Learn how to lucidly dream and you will find that your addiction will not form. Maybe you will catch some form of fanaticism... But also knowledge... you will find that many things you are suggesting are not possible. That in reality it is much simpler... and more magical.
Thanks for the inspiring writeup Psionik :)
That's interesting, and it makes no sense to me. If someone is into lucid dreaming, how could they get confused between the real world and the dream world?Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeosi
Lucid means aware. Lucid dreaming means you know you are dreaming. So, in a lucid state, one knows they are in the dream world, and not in the real world, so they are definitely not confused.
If someone is awake, and thinks they might be dreaming, a simple reality check will solve that problem.
Anyway, this idea of lucid dreaming being dangerous is kind of off-topic, and doesn't really have anything to do with how lucid dreaming works.
Well thats correct. So if you want to discuss it you can send me a message. I can explain my point of view.Quote:
Originally Posted by WakingNomad
Explain it here please, the more views the better... People who practice LD know, that addiction is quite impossible. People who doesn't know how to do it, or don't do it regularly can have their opinion... But you know, it is very subjective opinion then.
You will always find individuals who wants escape reality, but there is no way to do it through dreaming. They will rather turn to drugs. It is quite inevitable for some people... Sad fact... :(
I suggest starting a thread on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeosi
I found a thread about the dangers of lucid dreaming:
http://www.dreamviews.com/general-lu...-dreaming.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeosi
Yes TakeosiQuote:
Originally Posted by WakingNomad
You are right. It happened to me. So please start your own thread because I bet that I am not the only one to have a dream become part of my waking-reality memories.
I prefer to keep things open and on the forum. I don't like private messaging.
So please consider opening-up a thread about LDing maybe becoming addictive and/or becoming confused with waking reality.
ok i will
I think that shared dreaming is a very possible thing to do. I have been reading alot of Nomads stuff lately and its simply amazing. I have also been checking out other sources and find that it is highly possible. As of right now I have had no shared dream that I can recall. I did however try and induse a shared dream last night but had little success on my end as I was slipping between reality and dreaming life. I wasnt fully asleep but i wasnt fully awake I could see my dream but i couldnt get the dream to take place. I am trying an experiemnt soon with 2 friends we are working on reading each others DJ's so we can pick up on each others dreams and dream signs. After that we will all get together and talk about different dream stuff and fall asleep. We have all spoken of a place that we can meet each other at and seems to be a common area for all of us. In the coming weeks / months I will try and make posts and I'm sure they will as well about our progress and steps we are taking to induce SD :)
I had a thought just a few minutes ago but what do you guys believe would happen if you were speaking to your DG and an SD started? Would the new dreamer be able to understand your DG or do you think it would be a different language to them?
Takeosi,
You are new here and seem to be afraid of what you are reading. If its not for you, then just go somewhere else. You do not have to spread fear here.
It is true that some mental disorders like schizophrenia and bipolar disorder are seen to be a confusion in which the person cannot separate the dream perceptions and waking perceptions. This condition is usually precipitated by heavy drug use in which the basic healthy body chemistry is disrupted. These conditions happen as much in the dream-unaware population as the active dreamer population. There are almost always underlying conditions that make one susceptable to these experiences.
Exploration of one's dream life is a healthy activity and is usually only discouraged by those of a fearful fundamentalist persuation.
JJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeosi
I think it's much easier to have a shared dream in your own domains. Your domains for part of you, so you could sense anyone coming in or create a place where your visitor could go. I think that sharing a dream would be something like syncing together and letting your energies influence each other. I've had two shared dreams, one where I invited Raven Knight to my dreams and in another I was playing a violin in a concert on the moon =)!
Does Raven knight still Roam the dream worlds of forums? If so I'd love to chat with her to get some views.
Can you please explain more about wormholes??? I have never heard of that subject, but it could explain some travels I do while LDing or OBE. How do they feel like?? Maybe it's the same I've experienced.Quote:
Originally Posted by WakingNomad
If I imagine an apple, where is the apple I am imagining? Though my mind may have some basis in my brain, I think the apple in my mind is nowhere, it is in a virtual space.
We model the physical world to ourselves by making images of it in our virtual space. We make images of what we intend to do, and what we expect to happen.
When the collective mind makes images of what it intends to do, and what it expects to happen, where are these images? Presumably there is some kind of physical or astral basis for the collective mind, but we experience those thoughts I don't think we are aware of that basis, we are aware of the virtual space in the collective imagination. And if we think about more abstract things, like desire or motive, we can be partially aware of those 'spaces', how the collective mind represents those things to itself. It seems 'real' because of the substantial strength of the collective mind, not because it is in a higher world or plane that the physical world is nested in. So, for instance, I hypothesize that when I have a premonition, I'm seeing what fate intends and expects, I'm not seeing the physical future of any 'timeline'. This is shown in part by the fact that things that people see in this way are often objectively impossible in any plausible timeline, though this isn't always obvious to the person who has the vision, because of gaps in their understanding of the world.
Shared dreams would similarly be in this collective virtual world, not in a spiritual realm that contains the physical world.
Separately....
As with vibrations, dimensions, etc., I think that wormholes are a concept from physics that has been distorted by entertainment media then applied to an experience that is really not very much like a topological wormhole. Personally I find the word misleading enough that I'd never use it, but I guess for other people it's better than no word at all. A wormhole is a physical shortcut in space, like folding space. This is very different from stretching or separating 'astral' space so that a single part of it connects to two different parts of physical space. In this case physical space itself is not physically connected, which would have physically catastrophic effects, Hollywood scripts notwithstanding. It's simple, on the other hand, to bridge the gap astrally, since that's an imaginative space and we can do anything we want with it. Though the nature of its impact on physical space remains remarkable and mysterious to us of course.
I guess it sounds like I'm splitting hairs to someone with a different background than mine, even though the distinction is huge to me. So carry on with the wormhole talk.
The new dreamer could probably understand your DG.Quote:
Originally Posted by GenFalcon
She got annoyed with the drama and personal insults many people hurl/have hurled at us for our beliefs. You should try send her a PM.Quote:
Originally Posted by GenFalcon
My personal view of a wormhole is the center of a torus, a place between worlds, what we slip through when we go through a portal.Quote:
Originally Posted by kilham
I quote myself: (this is an excerpt from the thread linked below.)
The War of the Wyrms
Wormholes are ways between dream worlds, and ways to warp. Whee! The wormholes are guarded by the Wormhole Wyrms. Nevergawn wanted to take control of the wormholes. He can't kill the wyrms, for they are immortal, so instead, he ripped their dream bodies apart, and sliced them into pieces. Many of the wormholes exiting Urth have a wormhole with a wyrm that needs healing. Piece the dragon back together, and he will cleanse the wormhole, and guard it from astral parasites.
And this is why it's hard to go to the Moon.
People don't often perceive wormholes, just as you do not perceive yourself blinking. Every time you leave one dream world and go to another, you go through a wormhole.
http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...eam-plane.html
Im going to find this Nevergawn fello and destroy him! He shall never dream again!!! or maybe he will... we shall see :)
So I've been trying to pay attention to 'astral' stuff for the last couple of weeks....
In waking life, there is the way that things appear, and there's also what those appearances mean to us. People think in terms of the appearances, but below the surface its really the interpretations that motivate us. And there are multiple depths of memories. There are the pictures, but there are also the meanings that we remember.
In an 'astral' experience, so far as I can tell, the images are generated from the meanings. A smile means something to me, and I generate the appearance of someone smiling from that thought. If I'm 'seeing' anything astrally, I'm doing that subconsciously. The experience seems to originate in the thought, not in an inner or exotic sensate input. But since there's still a connection between the thought and objective waking life experience, I'm not sure what that implies. In other words, I'm restating in another way that there is some kind of 'karma', and this is the same way that astral experience works. But we still don't know how karma works. Shared dreaming would be an aspect of the same kind of thing.
These aren't 'strong' astral experiences I've had lately, but I think its probably the same, even though I'm less wide awake and lucid than I have been in the past. In the 'weak' dream experience my senses are mostly sleeping, or seeing blackness, and my mind's eye takes them over a little bit. In the 'strong' experience, the senses are wide awake, so to speak, but not receiving information, and my mind's eye is driving them full-on. It seems like the two experiences are essentially the same except for that difference.
My point is that I think that the 'meanings' we associate with things should be what we look into more as we try to understand this, that its in the right direction. I had a much better word for this, that came to me in a dream, but it was some kind of psychological jargon, not a word I know in waking life, and I've forgotten it. The meaning is almost like an archetype, but it doesn't have to be as grand and semi-universal. Ever notice how places like expensive hotels put books on shelves to add an air of sophistication, but if you look closer the actual titles are mostly arbitrary? Those books are mostly interchangeable, they represent something. Even when people read real books, to some extent they're doing it because the book represents something, for instance they feel good to be a person who values books. As long as the book is sophisticated enough to plausibly support that experience of being a 'reader of books', if that's the person's motive, it almost doesn't matter what it says. This 'what the book represents' is like the kind of thing I'm trying to get at, which I don't have a word for. Subconsciously we think largely in terms of those deeper meanings. I think if we want to understand our subconscious minds, which is where all this exotic astral, telepathy, and precognition stuff comes from, it will help to get better at thinking about these more abstract types, since this is closer to the part of the mind that can do the paranormal stuff.
For whatever that's worth.
To be fair I think what your long bit was about is more less just analyzing your dream :) which there is a cite called dreammood or something which you can analyze your dreams and see the meannig behind different objects :) which are basicly all spot on as ive done it for 3 years now. :)
You are right that dream analysis depends on these abstract types I'm talking about, and that its a good way to exercise that kind of thinking. But on dreammoods, or on dreamviews/dream-interpretation, nobody ever tries to deal with the abstract types directly. The best interpreters consider one concrete form, the dream metaphor, and use their vague awareness of the abstract type to translate it into another concrete form which seems more understandably relevant to waking life. For the most part they don't try to describe the abstract type itself. Athanor comes the closest to dealing directly with the abstract types, for example in relation to masculine and feminine principles. But his challenge is to translate that into specific examples which people will understand.
Nobody who posts on dreammoods tries to understand how dreams work either, they're concerned with the content of specific dreams. And a few people are interested in prophesying, but not interested in understanding the limits of prophesying. Try to start a conversation about how supernatural dream stuff works, and nobody will respond. On dreamviews people try to understand how supernatural stuff works, and are willing to argue about it, though I can't say we have much in the way of answers. Its a hard subject I guess.
That is the problem in itself is that we cannot prove any of this really :) Its just all ideas and cocnepts in our heads that we try and make sense of :) But the fact is it is possible that is to advanced for most waking minds :)
I have had shared dreams with only a few individuals... I feel like the people have to have a connection.
I don't think it's really possible. However I never really tried it