Thread: Why it's hard to get to the Moon

Can anyone tell me this different dimensions thingy?Also how to get in them?

Originally Posted by Psionik

Demons shouldn't be only bad... I think, they are mirroring our thoughts... maybe. Maybe there are good ones. Maybe there are bad angels, not only good. But I'm telling now my suppositions, I don't know from my experience.

As I have experienced them, demons aren't good or bad, they're mixed, like people, and the same demon can be either mostly bad or mostly good depending on how you think about your interaction with it: you are part of the determination of that. I think it works that way at least a little with experiences with other people also.

I think that the ostensibly 100% good angels are mostly ones that can't admit a shortcoming, and are connected to people who can't admit their own shortcomings, or can't stand the thought of being somewhat at the mercy of gods that aren't entirely trustworthy. Maybe there's an eternally perfect God behind the mess somewhere, but by the time that God comes through as an intuition its distorted by who we are. As I see it, if you hypothesize that our "higher selves" are imperfect, but some of them believe themselves to be perfect, then an awful lot of esoteric stuff makes sense that doesn't make sense otherwise.

I don't make a distinction between angels and demons. Even the words angels and demons are only very approximately suited to what I experience, which doesn't resolve as individual 'beings' for the most part. Since they don't have identities that are tied to individual bodies like people do, its more like expressions of a big conscious fractal.

A notable characteristic of the 'demon' I have interacted with is it never says anything more than once. I haven't experienced it much at all in dreams or intuitions for a couple of years now, which might mean that what it said before is still applicable, or I'm learning the same things in other ways, or its miffed and is giving me the silent treatment pending my demise.

Originally Posted by floatinghead

I am not sure if I entirely agree with you in regards to Demon's/negative forces being solely something which originates from within the individual dreamer;

I did not mean to suggest that it originates solely from within the dreamer. That's an important part of it though.

Originally Posted by floatinghead

unless you are also suggesting that demon's that appear outside of ourselves are just manifestations originating from other PEOPLE rather than entities in their own right.

That's part of it too, as I experience it, though I would not put ourselves in a superior position to the demons. You could also say that we are manifestations of them.

Originally Posted by floatinghead

You never watch horror movies or play violent video games?? WOW- lol! Your missing out I think, as you pointed out Demons are part of us and so perhaps by avoiding everything negative and violent is like trying to not accept part of ourselves?

This the same as how people react when I tell them I don't drink alcohol or smoke weed, that I must be motivated by pride or suppressing something. I don't think I am. It appears to me that I'm already as uninhibited as most people are when they're drunk or stoned, which is part of the effect they're after, and for me I don't see that the impairment would add anything. Similarly, over at slashdot.org people have accused me of moral pretense because I don't like child porn, and they can't imagine any other possible motivation, apparently. I do often listen to hard music like Iron Maiden or Black Sabbath though. I don't think that people who don't care for it are hiding from themselves.

If I wanted the experience of a horror movie, maybe I'd just kill people directly. I realize that sounds extreme, since the movie is very much less wrong, being a more superficial thought experiment, and we imagine there are no 'real' victims. But vicarious cruelty is an essential part of the horror experience, and there is always another side to that. "There is nothing real that does not become manifest." Or maybe "as above, so below", using your or Crowley's terminology. Where does all the disease and 'natural evil' in the world like tsunami's come from? Its not random, and though it looks inevitable based on our understanding of nature, how nature works is closely connected to who we are. There are other dynamics it can express, even though those realities would seem very strange compared to what we're accustomed to. In other words, I'm suggesting that what we regard as our universe is actually only a very narrow and relatively extreme sliver of a much larger multi-verse. I'm not sure I "know" this, but a lot of what I do know seems to point strongly towards that.

There is of course the practical matter that we've both mentioned, that its counterproductive to suppress our desires too much. So maybe its just as well that most people don't know the full consequences of who they are, and aren't equipped to contrast it to anything radically different, because they'd be paralyzed by guilt. But it seems to me that anyone who is interested in shared dreaming should probably become interested in this issue also, because its not exclusively your own mind that you're playing in. Your evil desire makes you dangerous, and there are limits to how well it can be quarantined. I don't mean this as a condemnation of you, I'm the same way, and just saying how I see it.

Some aspects of human experience are not morally acceptable to me. I recognize that I'm just one in billions of people, and their destiny counts as much as mine does, but I still have to respond to what I see. This choice comes first, then my paranormal dream experiences follow from that, as I look towards finding a solution. Or, as an opposite and maybe slightly more true way of looking at it, the supernatural intuition comes first, and is what forces the moral perception. In either case, the subject of spiritual growth, and the related subjects of shared dreaming or astral projection, are inextricably connected to the moral subject for me. Of course other people are going to have different motives, since we're all different, and that's good. But I'm only interested in cooperating insofar as this seems to be compatible with what I'm after, that what I want has some synergy with what they want.

Originally Posted by floatinghead

Very smart to keep yourself unattached, I think that is the key in discovering 'outside' entities and it is a much better way to see things without your own 'clutter' mixing it all up, but I also see how this can be an issue while trying to travel TO places. There are a number of different techniques you can use, though I would suggest trying to create a portal. First 'charge' yourself as you have mentioned doing, then start chanting the name of place or person you want to visit , say it over and over and feel the power surge through you - then put your hands in front of you and start to create a portal with that power, once it is formed jump through and you should arrive at your destination

I found it as way to be free of things that hold me back in my body, to be free of skeptic thoughts. To be unattached doesn't mean for me to believe though... It means for me to be in balance. I can try to do what you are suggesting... As long as it wouldn't disturb my concentration, balance, observer state... Normally I travel by running or flying. Running seems to be more reliable for me, flying needs more imagination then super-fast running. By LD this wouldn't be much problem though. Well if I don't rely on reality part of my surrounding... Creating portal- I tried to think that doors in my house are leading to other places... And it lead to be often in some fantasy world. It felt like I lost connection to reality. Or astral reality... Or what

Originally Posted by tP97

Can anyone tell me this different dimensions thingy?Also how to get in them?

I have theory that there are points of detachment running from time where separation to astral is possible, till you are at point where no separation is possible, because you lost interest to do separation(I identify this as meditation. Concentration on existence. Without any thought.

shadowofwind I believe that perfection is hard to reach. As I read somewhere, One can be saint as good human, or saint as totally evil human. But even saint doesn't mean to be perfect. It means hard work and to have better trained mind than other people. To be less attached to only material world.

Originally Posted by Psionik

Real things have their counterpart in astral and some also in mental dimension. I don't know whether it is real astral thing as such. But: Astral is easily adopting imagination, and I thing even when we are in this dimension. So, things which took thought process to build start to form in astral sooner than in real world. And also last there for longer than they exist in real world. Real things appear in astral little surreal As our perception of things is subjective the formed thing will be little different. Also, the more people see that thing, the more stable and real is looks like in astral. At least it seems to me so. I see things long before they exists. I saw my house(I alone projected it) before it was build. Some things looked different, some the same as I build it in real world. Sometimes a thought comes through my mind, that I have to do (and build) all things I see existing in astral so I wouldn't create some paradox. Then there is thing with parallel dimensions... maybe I see in astral things from them.

Appreciate the lengthy descriptions, in particular your view on how the current paradigm is changing in regards to solid objects appearing quicker in the astral. For me I have always considered astral and dream planes to be the same but I can see now how they are different yet intrinsically linked with this reality too.

I have a dark fear that I was bitten by a psychic vampire so I will see you tonight and perhaps you can heal me like you did the other person. Who knows maybe I can possibly point you to some more. This may just be my imagination running rampant or there may be more to it I really can't say for sure. Having said that please bare In mind I have just recovered from psychosis and still in recovery mode.

One common theme I am seeing here is that most people have vivid visualisations in their head during the day it seems? For me this doesn't happen, at least not all the time (heck it hardly happens at all) I am more of a thinker/feeler and move around in these realms based largely on vibes because I lack that visual clarity in waking life. So for you to hunt down these beings which you believed were vampires could also be hunting down regular people too. Food for thought anyway.

Well known I do not follow you in for a longer distance shadowofwind - but I like your way of thinking about these aspects.

The vampires in astral didn't felt like normal people, normal people were there... They were felt more like something otherworldly. For some reason I know, they could be destroyed, but humans can't. Maybe they are something like semi-sentient automatons. I don't know. I try not to believe things, I try to know things. I don't want to live in delusions.

I had second encounter with vampires, but that was indirect, they used energy deficient people. They were deficient because other vampires wanted to harm me. I knew it, as turned peoples ran to me. They sent that people to me. I felt the difference. I didn't do any harm to them, only pumped them by my energy, and that people turned from their wild status to normal (well as normal as you would see demented people. Because I see normal people in astral moving like they are not perceptive fully on environment I'm/they are in). Even when I was bitten by one woman it lead to pumping her full of energy... It didn't lead to my weakening, but she turned to something angelic... She was shining with my energy. And she communicated with me fully consciously in astral. I thing it was because of how many energy she took. Real one didn't remember a thing of this encounter. What she told me later, she had problems with tiredness... so... But she cant travel... she did try exercises I told her about, but she doesn't have patience to exercise.

I tried some 2 years later something with pumping her with energy to make her again conscious. I used my hands... I saw energy as sparks, as electrical bolts dancing in and around my hand... But I wasn't successful with energy transfer. Next time I will try Floatinghead's method of shouting on her Or on someone else I know from my surrounding.

Remember, what I know doesn't need to be true. It is changing as I'm finding more information. Even then, I can be wrong. It can be very well subjective.

Originally Posted by Psionik

but she turned to something angelic... She was shining with my energy. And she communicated with me fully consciously in astral.[/B]

Wow that sounds epic!

Originally Posted by Psionik

Maybe they are something like semi-sentient automatons. I don't know. I try not to believe things, I try to know things. I don't want to live in delusions.

That's a good way of looking at things