Originally Posted by Sageous
Excellent point... would that WakingNomad were still around to address it (or at least read it; he didn't address much when he was here).
More good stuff here, but you may have left out one bit: Not only is only the basic structure shared (and keep in mind that individual perceptions of basic structures -- even something as iconic as the moon -- can vary wildly), but that astral internet you mention lacks an interface.
In other words, yes, our thoughts might all be swimming around in the same aetheric ocean, but they are all doing different strokes. As individuals, we each form our thoughts independently and in a unique fashion, using a "program code" unlike any other, if I might do a little metaphor-mixing. So if someone senses those thoughts, there's an excellent chance that they'll be unable to translate the code of the thought form they perceived. As you note, it would be helpful to share dreams with someone you love, or better yet, someone you love and to whom you are related, as this might dramatically improve the chances of recognition thanks to a greater possibility of similar code.
On top of that, and to continue the metaphor, the astral internet also lacks routers: Okay, I'll concede that we can project our dreams in thought-form packets, but how do those packets find their targets?
Is it that we are projecting our dreams to everyone at once (like a radio broadcast) and only people who care pick up the signal? Maybe. But that would make the astral internet an almost overwhelmingly busy, noisy, place, I think. Just as the earthly internet must have a system to organize, filter, sort, and direct the billions of bits of information that otherwise would be just randomly thrown out there, never to be seen again, I think there must be some sort of router system for a dream-sharing internet. And if there is, how do I get an Astral IP address?
On that note, I think WakingNomad's several threads like this were his attempt to define routers -- that moon of his might have been necessary, because he was seeking to define a thought-form node, or beacon, to which dreamers could navigate in their dream-sharing attempts. So, in light of this thread, Psionlink's concern seems valid, if not right on the mark.
It is nothing new, that I personally very much doubt, dream-sharing is possible..
But Sageous - I enjoyed reading your take on it in this post - loving the internet of the minds metaphor.
Originally Posted by floatinghead
Good point! The way we each perceive things are completely different to one another - so viewing the same thing could amount to two very different visual descriptions of the event as often crops up within Nomad's shared dreaming diary in comparison to Raven's. I also agree that there exists something special between Raven and Nomad where by, for the majority of us, we cannot just 'connect' to a random person on the internet without first trying to connect to them in waking reality first: we need to build up somekind of relationship first.
A way around our different program codes/understanding of the visual language which I have been trying out - is to have an agreed place to meet within the dreaming. You see I made the same mistake at first when trying to share a dream and agreed to meet at 'the moon', but discovered after that me and my daughter were just visiting our own moon but not the SAME moon. So to counter this I took a real place in real life and cultivated it within our minds -a special tree which we often go to. To help define this place as the SAME place we were building within our minds we each made sure we are perceiving - emotionally, the tree and space around it in the same way. shortly before our first dream share at this tree we found a young bird who had landed outside of our house, he had been attacked by a cat. Unable to fly he died that evening. The next day we decided to bury it at our 'magic' tree and that following night we both dreamed of meeting at the tree (lucidly) and the bird (being the element which brought us together emotionally) appeared around my daughter and flew around her (which we both remembered and perceived.
So my point is, if you can agree on the ground rules on what the place is you plan to meet, and then plan the next few excursions within the dreaming to make sure you will mutually be perceiving the same thing then you can successfully line up your individual 'program codes' so that they are in sync with one another. It's like turning the dial to find an am radio station - at first the signal may be weak and you only get parts of the radio program, but the more you tune in the better you get at finding that sweet spot!
I don't think we need a router per se. Creating a portal pretty much does the same thing as a router - but again, a portal only appears that way because of perception - as long as a persons intent is strong enough I believe they will be able to travel to the correct destination.
I think you are right on the ball here - I think allot of our dreams are a mixture of our own thoughts and other peoples thoughts leaking through - generally speaking though I do think we have somekind of (two way) 'firewall' in place for each of us - which allows us to both be protected from others dreams and also keeps us within our own dream space. For myself, when I first started to explore 'outside' my own dream area I came across quite a few barriers before I was able to move around unhindered. (I would be interested to hear if this is a common thing or not)
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I admire your determination and also this sort of building of a relation to your daughter floatinghead!
What I just can´t wrap my mind around, is why you assume the much more complicated theory to understand, what is happening.
Without a compelling need to jump over Occams Razor as I interpret it.
What would make me want to jump it?
Well - something like you two meeting at your tree and both - out of nowhere - not talking about birds or death at all before - would dream of a bird dying in your both´s dream - and both burying it together - and waking up and find this out.
I still would need much more to jump - like this happening over and over - to dismiss the much more probable concept of you two being so close, that you know, how you feel and think, and what is on your minds - and psychologically tuning in to each other´s metaphors.
Which you then take with you into your dreams - synchronicity of an extent like I described above would - at least if isolated - fall into this category as a first hypothesis always for me.
Something good I find - I feel you do not have a cemented theory about it involving bending existing concepts of science or fixed religious notions to have a ready-made scheme for these assumptions.
But all the more, I can´t help to - first of all emotionally fully understand the following - I felt this myself when I was younger - can´t help to assume, the sharing aspect has some value of it´s own for you - sort of making the wonderful reality, as I see it, even more wonderful like this.
Like "I Want To Believe" - because it would be so nice.
Don´t get me wrong - I really like you and reading you - just I wonder, if not somewhere hidden in the back of your mind there might be some doubt along the lines I argued this above..?
If so - do you try to - for the sake of insight and experimentation - look at it all from this psychological real-life wave-length tuning point of view sometimes - and also talk to your daughter about it? How old is she by the way?
Meaning to assume - really try to actually falsify your concept - that you might always be individually visiting your own tree or moon alone - but being so tuned to each other, that they can both be made to almost look and feel the same?
Please do not feel criticised by this - oh well - as I think you are - I don´t think you will.
Good that WakingNomad is not around any more as you say Sageous - I think, I would indeed try to get at him and criticize him a lot!!!
Some of his posts I judge as right out dangerous and so very misleading, that there is no comparison to the fact that many are on the lookout to reach SP.
I really agree to what shadowofwind had as a concern under point 4 - but here we are and with a good discussion I find.
But the stuff that brought this thread up, really needs addressing, I find:
I did not comment on the post of the "thread-resurrector" at all - but here we go tP97:
Originally Posted by tP97
I was wondering , if anyone reaches the sun, will he burn down his dream body? If the sun destroys the body , will it regenerate in later dreams? or the person... dies?
Also , are there dream artefacts and stuff in this world?
No tP97 - I am more than just theorizing, when I say I am convinced, that the dream-world is in your head - it is not dangerous for your real body to burn down your dream body at all - neither it is to your dream-body - if you do not wake up from the experience, you will be able to build a new one in the same dream - but surely you will have one in the next dream!!
Please do not believe this stuff!
Rather look at this: Dream Control And Stabilization
And happy fearless and unconstrained dreaming!
If people read stuff like the OP - I am really worried for the following to occur:
a) Them not learning to LD with real dream control and fearless
b) Them right out being scared away from it
c) Them not building up a sensible attitude towards life in general - especially when they are still kids - age-entry-baseline being 13 on here
Edit: Oh yeah - some really important afterthought - if I would not have wanted to believe so much - I would have stopped having (at least semi-lucids) as a child as I did - and that would have been it.
Like it was - I read Castaneda with true conviction - and thus came back to it.
I can actually only be very thankful for this, if I am honest.
But then - I hope one day it will be "normal" in as far, as you could get access easily from - maybe school even - or be directed to a place like this here, which has all the full spectrum to choose your world-understanding from!
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