Thread: From WILD to AP

Originally Posted by yorkey

Hiya

I want to know something. It seems the steps leading up to a WILD is very similiar to Astral Projection....Am I right in saying this? And if you make some mistake with say Astral Projection, you could still end up having a WILD?

I had to look up the acronym on Wikipedia. In relation to my own experience, the distinction being made with those definitions seems to break down a little bit. How long does the flicker of disorientation between 'waking' and dream have to be before its considered to be 'dream initiated'? Also, most of my dreams are non-lucid, in that they're mostly involuntary, and I'm content to leave them that way. But I seem to dream pretty much the entire time I'm asleep, and I'm generally always aware that I'm dreaming.

With my astral projection experiences I was in a semi-wakeful state in the early morning or after a nap. I would have a harder time doing that immediately after falling asleep, because my senses aren't as relaxed then. But I've had lucid nightmares immediately after falling asleep. And for me in both cases there's an involuntary element, a subconsious demon or muse which helps create the dream. So I suppose that astral projection would be possible for some people immediately upon going to sleep also. And what I was interested in before going to sleep always influences what happens afterwards. Its like a sort of dance between myself and the subconscious element. I don't try to take over completely, I leave a lot of the control to it.

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

But I seem to dream pretty much the entire time I'm asleep, and I'm generally always aware that I'm dreaming.

Then why don't you simply make them lucid ? Or are you, as you say content, just to dream normally without making your own fantasies? I read somewhere that the symbolic nature of dreams disappear when one becomes lucid, so you'd rather leave it to your subconscious to make the dream?

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

With my astral projection experiences I was in a semi-wakeful state in the early morning or after a nap. I would have a harder time doing that immediately after falling asleep, because my senses aren't as relaxed then.

Surely your senses/muscles are most relaxed in sleep mode, aren't they?

Hmm...I've wondered the same thing quite a bit. I've had both APs and WILDs (never intentional, I don't ever try too hard to achieve these, they just happen sometimes), and the steps to achieve both do seem very similar, don't they?

The only differences I've observed are that during my AP experiences, I was never aware that I had fallen asleep. The first time I AP'd, in fact, I was on the floor next to my bed and felt tingly and tired. I thought I had fallen out of bed, and was shocked when I woke up a few seconds later in my bed. The second time, I sat up out of my body and had no idea I had fallen asleep until I felt the sleep paralysis of my sleeping body, and saw its reflection in the mirror by my bed.

When I've WILDed, however, I always knew I was asleep right off.

I also find that my body achieves both easier during afternoon naps. I guess you've gotta be at least a little more awake and alert than when you go to sleep at night.

Originally Posted by yorkey

Then why don't you simply make them lucid ? Or are you, as you say content, just to dream normally without making your own fantasies? I read somewhere that the symbolic nature of dreams disappear when one becomes lucid, so you'd rather leave it to your subconscious to make the dream?

The symbolism doesn't disappear entirely when lucid, since you can be lucid and still not exert control over every aspect of your environment in the dream. But yes, I generally don't try exert control over much of it at all. Part of that is just apathy - I'm resting, which is why I'm asleep to start with. And to the extent I'm not apathetic, I'm after new insights, which are the ones that I can't produce myself.

Originally Posted by yorkey

Surely your senses/muscles are most relaxed in sleep mode, aren't they?

I'm more relaxed in the morning. Most people aren't totally relaxed the moment they go to sleep, which is why so many people have problems with teeth grinding.

By the way, years ago I was quite into Hendrix. I even have a jacket with him painted on back.

Are there any tips you could give me for relaxing? I've tried astral projection 5 times at night before I got to bed, and twice in the afternoon without success. I sit up halfway in bed and breathe deeply in through my nose and out my mouth, then I tense up and relax every part of my body. I try to imagine my body getting heavier with each breath, and for visualization, I see myself playing guitar in my room. What am I doing wrong, and is there anything that you do that works for you?

I too am interested in AP. I have read that a successful method to achieve AP is using the "rope technique".

Treatise on Astral Projection - Part 5

This website has a very in-depth description it.

Thank you for the link! I'll go through that very carefully. The important bit I've read so far was "The vibrations are an effect and NOT a cause of projection." I always thought it was the opposite.

Originally Posted by yorkey

Are there any tips you could give me for relaxing? I've tried astral projection 5 times at night before I got to bed, and twice in the afternoon without success. I sit up halfway in bed and breathe deeply in through my nose and out my mouth, then I tense up and relax every part of my body. I try to imagine my body getting heavier with each breath, and for visualization, I see myself playing guitar in my room. What am I doing wrong, and is there anything that you do that works for you?

Every night I dream, and the dreams have some relevance to my life and development. I try to respond to the dreams in a constructive way, thinking about them after I awake and understanding what they teach, so to speak. I didn't try to astrally project, it just happened in the course of development of my dreaming and learning about things. I only did it two or three times, then I moved on to something else. (I say two or three because one of the experiences was closely related to the other two, but it might be misleading to call it astral projection.)

Anyway, my idea here is to deal with whatever is in front of you, which is related to whatever you normally dream about, and then when that's out of the way, other things will become possible. I'm not saying I think that should be your approach, its just an idea based on my experience.

happens all the time to me