Thread: Difference between Astral projection and Lucid dream

I have experienced both of those things and not once. If you wake up and you think that you are in "that world", but you know, that if you move you will wake up, there is no other way of standing up - you have to seperate. People call this OBE/AP. if you catch yourself in "that world", but you already can move freely, it's LD. So it's THE SAME THING.

Don't agree with me? Prove me I'm wrong. tell, what is the difference between LD and AP/OBE?

You call them "astral projections" when you believe in all the paranormal stuff that comes with the existence of the astral plane.
Otherwise they are OBEs, which are a family of lucid dreams. Astral projection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You can also read this: http://www.dreamviews.com/f19/dream-...stance-117728/

I kind of agree with whiskee, when you astral project which I barely did once I felt something different from an OBE? (if OBE is an incredibly vivid lucid dream in which you wake up into your room next to your body). If that is an OBE so I had many OBE and they felt closer to a lucid dream and to an astral projection since I showed up next to my body, they were incredibly lucid but yet not as intense as the feeling of being skinned out of your physical body from a wake state (I was into a deep relaxation, not a dream). Maybe my experience was a little too dramatic and that can be different in others, but what I want to say is that, what Angie well expressed with her batman comment, when you astral project you will remember it on your skin, it's not a joke, at least not for me, it ' a life changing experience, can also be very spiritual for some and like Whiskee mentioned, it's about paranormal stuff. At the end we try to give names to things that cannot be explained well in words. Ours are only interpretations of something so personal and subjective that maybe won't ever be the same everybody else. If anyone have other thoughts on the topic it would be nice to hear other points of view.

I understand the differences in Astral Projection and Lucid Dreaming but the techniques seem to be extremely similar or the same for the most part. How are you sure you are not doing one while trying to do the other? Could you mistakenly Astral Project while trying to WILD?

If you visualize your dream scenario while WILDing, then you'll most likely end up in a LD.
If you don't, and passively wait for SP to stabilize, then you will separate from your body (OBE).
"Astral projection" is the definition people who believe in the astral plane give to OBEs.

Heimdall, that's a good question. In my opinion, that will depend a lot from how sensitive you are to astral project.
My case is that I am not. I love to be in my body and popping out of it it's like being skinned alive, so I have to work really hard to AP.
I have to do lots of meditation and mostly I have to feel very comfortable in my body before I can AP.
So for people like me who cling tightly to their bodies it's essential to do exercises and meditations to release tensions before the magical moment (for me it's around 8am) in which the gravity pulls the ethereal body (dream body) into the brain to start the LD. If your body is relaxed and the energy flow from within is without ethereal blocks then from your ethereal body one can easily (not really for me) come out into the astral real with an astral body.
However, everybody is different and some might not have such a tight connection with their physical body and might have very strong vortex/portal into the astral realm through some parts of their bodies, like a 3rd eye, feet or the navel, for instance, then in that case the shooting out into the astral body can happen instantaneously and maybe even with little meditation before.
This could depend on how much you have worked on those parts of the body in your past lives (but that is something that cannot be explained or demonstrated so it remains a hypothesis).
So the first important thing to do, in my opinion, is to be very certain of what we really want, and strengthen that certainty into our mind, even repeat it before going to bed, and then go in with horse blinkers towards what we really want.
So Heimdall, just ask to yourself what you really want and be focused on that on the fun and the joy you will have receiving what you really want. Be the master of yourself.

Originally Posted by Heimdall

I understand the differences in Astral Projection and Lucid Dreaming but the techniques seem to be extremely similar or the same for the most part. How are you sure you are not doing one while trying to do the other? Could you mistakenly Astral Project while trying to WILD?

Yes, This is what happened to me. I was trying to learn how to WILD and giving it all my attention. About two weeks in I had my first wild result and it was pure OBE style lucid dream.

As someone above me said, if you visualize the dream it kinda just forms in front of you and you merge with the image. If you just surrender to the vibration (wich is beutifull in itself) you will leave your body OBE style.

Angie, Wow you are right on the money with your description, this clears up a lot of questions I had just in your single post, I am also a AP guy/Lucid dreamer, pretty new to it all, but I love that I have this ability. I am trying to master OOBE, but you are right about when it happens it can be very scary, for instance my first OOBE was when I had passed out after one of my sons football games (not from drugs or alcohol) just fainted technically and I was looking down at myself as everyone was huddled over me, when I got back into my body I woke up with Paramedics and everyone taking care of me. That was a very rough experience, yet now I am totally addicted to trying to OOBE, I have found that when I begin my normal OOBE's I have a few techniques, I eat a bowl of cereal before bed, yes eating does make us dream and gives us fuel, I also rub my eyelids while shut until everything gets bright and then watch the show, this is more of a warm up for me. I say over and over, I will remember this dream I will have....and that usually starts the Lucid dream for me. When I know I am dreaming, I tell myself to wake up, but not to open my eyes and then I feel my soul leaving through the small of my back, yes it is very different from Lucid dreaming, but it seems to be part of the pre process to OOBE's. Well that's pretty much it. My first few experiences were exhausting, Oh another thing you have to tell yourself or your subconscious is to not be afraid, I have seen some pretty bizarre characters while out of body. Now here is a really scary experience that I can relate to what you said in your post; Just recently I was driving back to Colorado from Vegas and we (the Mrs and I) left very early in the morning 1 a.m. and I hadn't had any sleep prior, we just wanted to get home to our kiddos, while driving I got real tired and kept disciplining myself to stay awake. I stopped and got an energy drink and coffee and that made me wide awake, but here is where it got weird, I started listening to the hum off my tires, one out of balance and I guess the frequency of it started me into an OOBE WHILE WIDE AWAKE! Ouch, I am driving on the highway at 80 miles an hour and all of a sudden I am in the cab of a car in front of us and I look back and see us driving behind these folks. I tried like hell to get back, but for some reason I couldn't, my wife was asleep in the passenger seat and then after yelling at myself albeit you can't really hear anything voice wise from your own Astral body, I shot back into my body and was looking out through my physical eyes. I was like man if I would have stayed away any longer I would have wrecked and killed us both. So there are some hazards to this just like you said. Anyhow, love your posting, thanks so much and happy Astral travels to you.

Originally Posted by geldenszenes69

Angie,

Wow you are right on the money with your description, this clears up a lot of questions I had just in your single post, I am also a AP guy/Lucid dreamer, pretty new to it all, but I love that I have this ability.

I am trying to master OOBE, but you are right about when it happens it can be very scary, for instance my first OOBE was when I had passed out after one of my sons football games (not from drugs or alcohol) just fainted technically and I was looking down at myself as everyone was huddled over me, when I got back into my body I woke up with Paramedics and everyone taking care of me.

That was a very rough experience, yet now I am totally addicted to trying to OOBE, I have found that when I begin my normal OOBE's I have a few techniques, I eat a bowl of cereal before bed, yes eating does make us dream and gives us fuel, I also rub my eyelids while shut until everything gets bright and then watch the show, this is more of a warm up for me.

I say over and over, I will remember this dream I will have....and that usually starts the Lucid dream for me.

When I know I am dreaming, I tell myself to wake up, but not to open my eyes and then I feel my soul leaving through the small of my back, yes it is very different from Lucid dreaming, but it seems to be part of the pre process to OOBE's.

Well that's pretty much it.

My first few experiences were exhausting, Oh another thing you have to tell yourself or your subconscious is to not be afraid, I have seen some pretty bizarre characters while out of body.

Now here is a really scary experience that I can relate to what you said in your post; Just recently I was driving back to Colorado from Vegas and we (the Mrs and I) left very early in the morning 1 a.m. and I hadn't had any sleep prior, we just wanted to get home to our kiddos, while driving I got real tired and kept disciplining myself to stay awake. I stopped and got an energy drink and coffee and that made me wide awake, but here is where it got weird, I started listening to the hum off my tires, one out of balance and I guess the frequency of it started me into an OOBE WHILE WIDE AWAKE!

Ouch,

I am driving on the highway at 80 miles an hour and all of a sudden I am in the cab of a car in front of us and I look back and see us driving behind these folks.

I tried like hell to get back,

but for some reason I couldn't, my wife was asleep in the passenger seat and then after yelling at myself albeit you can't really hear anything voice wise from your own Astral body, I shot back into my body [b|and was looking out through my physical eyes. [/b]

I was like man if I would have stayed away any longer I would have wrecked and killed us both.

So there are some hazards to this just like you said. Anyhow, love your posting, thanks so much and happy Astral travels to you.

I found this Youtbe a few hours ago. He says that we can simutaniously operate in 3 separate minds. Physical body mind, OBE mind and lucid dream mind. If he is right then your physical body mind may have been competent at safely driving the car while your OBE (Astral body) mind was checking things out from a diferent petspective.

Look at the 12:36 to 14 minute point of this Youtube called "How to know when you're about to Astral Project".

It is in the opening post of my thread, below.

http://www.dreamviews.com/f19/genero...-bruce-136872/

I started out with astral projection and learnt to lucid dream afterwards. I've found no differences, except the initial way you get into the state.

Also I've had many occurences of spontaneous astral projection from inside of the lucid dream. In all such cases I would start feeling the vibrations, the dream scenery would shatter into pieces (metaphorically, of course), and I would find myself in state of sleep paralysis instead. And then from the state of sleep paralysis I'd find myself projecting.

But that's the only difference. My projections could be crappy in terms of quality, and lucid dreams magnificent, or vice versa. Imho, once you're projected there's no difference between one and the other.

Okay, just to give a different opinion - taken from Astral Voyage - Astral Projection - Astral Projection / Dreaming / Lucid Dreaming

It's my opinion that astral projection, dreaming and lucid dreaming are intertwined in the same locale. The difference between dreams, projection and lucid dreaming is what is at the controls (the conscious mind or the subconscious mind). Even if you get the vibrations and roll out of your physical body, you will end up "dreaming" very quickly if you don't know what you're doing. People say, "I failed because I fell into a dream." Well, no you didn't, you just gave up conscious control to the subconscious mind which makes the experience totally different! The subconscious mind has its own agenda and communication system.

Your conscious mind is concerned with the here and now. Your subconscious mind is concerned with processing life events, working out soul lessons, attempting to bring past and future events into your consciousness, and a bevy of other things. Subtle realm experiences, dream or otherwise, get "fantasy like" because again, a person has lost conscious control. The same exact thing happens in the astral if you don't use clarity statements. People just don't realize what the astral is like (during a conscious projection). Yes, it can be as lucid and clear as the waking state, but you can slip into the Alice in Wonderland effect (subconscious control) faster than you can shake a stick! In fact, control can be lost in less than a minute. I have rolled out of my body, gotten half way down my stairs, totally lost conscious control, and slipped into fantasy land immediately. Only through sheer will power, and constantly directing my focus towards my goal, am I able to maintain a lucid state. Published astral projection author, William Buhlman, also states that clarity statements are a must for maintaining lucidity and control.

The astral is a malleable place where form follows thought, but don't just think it follows "conscious" thought. It also follows subconscious thought. Many an advanced projector, including the famous Robert Monroe, would marvel at how things would materialize (or that they would be transported to an event or place) quicker than they could form the desire consciously. That is how fast and strong the subconscious works!

An example of an astral dream is if you are working on a lesson. Many lessons cannot be worked out on the physical plane because you wouldn't be able to handle the issue over and over (or even once), whereas you can handle fairly severe scenarios in the astral. For example, we assume all beings not recognizable, such as subtle plane entities, are "evil." If you dream of a freaky looking entity then you'll experience the fear emotion. Fear is generally the first reaction, and often the only reaction, to this experience. Time and time again I was afraid of what I didn't recognize, until I learned to give it a chance, and even send it love. Only then did it morph into something I recognized and that is, the very same life energy that I was. I doubt I'd find it all too pleasant to find some scary looking being in my bedroom at night in the physical, but I can endure it over and over in the astral. It seems like a "crazy" dream, but it is your subconscious mind nudging you in the direction of total awareness and unconditional love.

Dreams can often come true. A common name for a psychic of this sort is a "sleeping psychic." If we did nothing but remain in our bodies during sleep then this would not be possible. People have even met their friends and loved ones in "dreams" and both parties remembered the experience. In so called dreams, messages are given and futures told.

People write me in frustration that they can't consciously project. Well, why not instead realize that you project every night and tackle it from a different viewpoint? Why not learn lucid dreaming (or lucid projection) and bypass the whole nonsense of "vibrations and rollout?"

Remember, you project every night you sleep. All we're doing here is trying to get conscious control of the subtle state.

Originally Posted by angie746

OK lrememveresets see if this helps:
NYefinitions

Lucid dreaming occurs wdreamingeamingeaming and are aware that you are in fact dream. e you become lucid (aware) in your dtouou can control all of tour ousness leaves your body and enters a realm known as the astral plane. This is not the dream pl. This is an entirely different place, and it’s definitely not Kansas!

Comparison

Let’s compare lucid dreaming and astral projection so that you’ll see how distinctly separate these two experiences are.

In lucid dreaming:
•You are asleep
•Your experience is a dream
•Your location is whereever you wish it to be (desert, ocean, future, past, mom’s house, etc.)
•Your consciousndidn't s stiinsionururrur body
•You can control the environment and characters
•When the experience is over, you simply wake up

In astral projection:
•You awaken, then you project
•Your experience is real
•Your experience begins in your bedroom, or wherever your body is
•Your consciousness is outside of your body, and your body is left with none
•You can manipulate your environment in the astral realm (somewhat), but you cannot control the actions of the inhabitants of the astral plane.
•When the experience is over, you return to your body and merge your consciousness back into it
Do etrw how to lucid dpam in orbecau astral project?

No. Youwibecauearninearning lucid dreaming. There are some people who can simply lay down on a couch and in a couple of minutes totally separate out of their body. It’s difficult, but possible. The skill of being able to project your consciousness out of your body is something that can be practiced to a point where you could potentially leave your body while dining at a restaurant or sitting in a movie theater. However, I can definitely say that being an accomplished lucid dreamer will help you learn astral projection.

I recall one experience where I laid down on my bed to take an afternoon nap and immediately, instantly, went out of body. I literally thought I had died because it was the first time I astral projected from a totally awake, not-coming-out-of-sleep state. I stood there looking down at my body thinking, “Holy hell-in-a-handbasket, Batman! What just happened?” It was trippy and unnerving and I just got right back into my body. Fear of death will do that to you.

How can we use the skill of lucid dreaming to facilitate an astral experience?

Mastering the art of lucid dreaming comes with a great side effect. You learn how to wake your mind up while keeping your body asleep. And that is a skill you need for conscious astral projection. In order to separate out your consciousness from its shell – your body – you need to learn how to move your consciousness out of your body and into your astral vehicle, as it’s called. Your astral vehicle is simply your astral body. Think of it like putting your consciousness into a ghostly body. It’s not quite that simple, but it will do for now. So once you’ve become a master at keeping your body asleep while your mind is totally awake and conscious, you’re halfway there.

So how does astral projection take place?

The best and easiest way to learn how to astral project is to learn lucid dreaming first. Listen to my podcast for tips on how to do that. What you want to do is end your lucid dream with the intent to astral project. As you wake up, you’ll notice your body is totally paralyzed for a few moments. This is to prevent you from acting out your dream. In this state, you want to raise your vibration (you might hear a high-pitched whine or feel a buzzing in your body), and then stretch your astral body out of your physical body. It will feel like you’re moving your physical body. It’s supposed to!! This is because you are leaving your body – all of you is leaving your body – and so it will feel like you are simply stretching out and standing up. But when you look down, you’ll see your body still lying on the bed.

A lot of people make the mistake of thinking they simply cast their awareness outside of their body and experience a dual consciousness, or imagine they are getting up out of their body. No. When you successfully leave your body, it will feel like all of you is standing up while your body is still lying on your bed. You will not feel like you’re still lying in bed. You will not feel like you’re dreaming. You will literally feel like you got out of bed and are standing beside it. You will look down at your body and recognize it but you will not feel your arms lying on the covers, you will not feel your head on the pillow. You will only see it. You may feel a pull or tug, however. This is your astral cord trying to get you back into your body where you feel safe, because let me tell you, the first dozen times you go astral you will want to get back into your body right quick!! Get as far away from your body as fast as you can and the tugging sensation will dissipate rapidly. When you’re ready to go back to your body, just think about it and your cord will snap you back. If you get into any trouble out there, call for the angels or your spirit guides to help you. They’ll get you back where you belong.

Other tidbits you need to know

Sometimes I will be having a lucid dream followed by a false awakening where I will dream that I am astral projecting. That’s not an astral projection. Still a dream. If Brad Pitt shows up in your astral experience, you’re just dreaming. Sometimes I will actually begin to have an astral experience but not make it fully out of my body. So frustrating. If my will is not strong enough to get out of my body, I will often snap into a lucid dream very quickly. Not astral, but still a cool experience.

Sometimes people successfully go astral but don’t leave their body! What a waste of a great experience. In this case you vibrate your frequency high enough to get out but you don’t actually stretch out of your body and go anywhere. I’ve done this many, many times. You are in an astral state, you are plugged in to the astral realm, but you simply aren’t going anywhere. In this state, you may attract the attention of some entities who may not be very nice, who will come and look at you, or talk to you, or try to suck your energy away. I wouldn’t let them.

In still other cases, there are beings who can separate your astral body from your corporeal body for you. Some of them are nice, and others are not so nice. If you have friends who are good at astral projection, they can come and encourage you to leave your body. This is so very tricky and requires some precision timing, but it can be done if you’re all really serious about it.

After reading your post, I remembered an event that happen many years ago when I was around 10-11. What I remembered is that all of a sudden I was aware that I was "walking" (seems like it but not physically) in my room and ut I was drea that I was in my house when suddenly i was walking out from my room to the living in min g room walking. It seems very much exactly like my house, the general shape. However I didn't notice the fine details and it was not completely vivid but I knew i was in my house. then after awhile (not sure what really happened) I felt a jolt and I'm back in my room on my bed where the surrounding s seems to be the same as my "dream": pitch black in my living room. I was young and didnt know if it was obe/ap. In my "first" dream, I did not remember "floating"out of my body and didn't feel that I might actually be out of my body. I was looking at the door with my back facing the bed. I should be able to see my sister who was sleeping next to the door then if its ap/ obe but I didn't remember if I saw her. I t was pitch black and being afraid of the dark and as I had many such dreams "eg endless corridor and endless lift dreams" so I told myself that I wanted to wake up (possibly becaseue I thoguth it was another scary dream. After thinking hard, I woke up on my bed. I then tried to run towards my parent's bedroom to call for help. It felt half real and fake. The scene of my parents on the bed were very real to my perception but i felt a little out of place. I tried shouting for help but no words could come out and i felt a demonic presence. Then i dinit know what happened next and i woke up out of fear with the same surrounding. This time i was able to feel my hands and body and i realise that the 2"dreams" were not real. So i woyld like to ask if were those episodes obe/ap or just lucid dreaming? Thanks.

PS. Sorry if my Eng is bad because I have to type them quickly before my thoughts dissapear.

How does one know if he/she is really having AP/OBE and not lucid dreaming that they actually have it. Because the feelings might be the same and AP/OBE can happen while one is asleep and things can actually get very complicated to discern.

If you reach the state when you feel your legs numb (like ants biting) when you try to move and a resisting force, are you already astral projecting and already out of your body? You know and want to move and only know that that scene is not real until you are awake and think about that scene?

"What do you do when you are out of your body?

First, I went to the moon. Often when you leave your body you see astral matter that is not visible to the physical eye. When I went to the moon I was greeted by a man I didn't know and then he showed me around a "compound" where people (mainly men, I think) used this facility, but for what, I don't know. It had a sterile feel to it though. What is it you want to do? I find that the astral is pretty much unlimited. You decide what and where you want to go and then state your desire. I do this a lot. For example, if you want to see a friend, just say, "Take me to Cindy's housCan you see yourself when you astral travel? How do you look? What clothes are you wearing (same as in the physical plane?) etc?

I initially said that you could see yourself lying there on the bed, but I think that what we are really seeing is the etheric body. I don't think we can see the physical body because it's not of the same vibration (like I keep saying over and over... we see the astral counterpart of what is in the physical). I've gotten several e-mails where they can't see ANY body on the bed. That's because they are in both the astral and etheric vehicle so there's nothing to see on the bed! On a related note, I had a very strange astral experience once where I kept having the same dream over and over about tornadoes (twisted sisters). After about the 4th time that I dreamt this, I realized that it was a dream (lucid dream). I then created an astral "counterpart" of myself and left that counterpart to live out the dream so no one would worry and then my "self" flew away. I've never heard of anyone doing this before. As far as what you are wearing, I don't pay attention, but I don't feel naked."

From: htt p://w ww.astralvoyage.com/projection/FAQ_updated.html#whenleave



I think this kind of explain what I felt in my previous posts. Can anyone advise if the words in this post is correct?

*Posts merged

stprue: rather than LD and OOBE states corresonding to faster brain wave frequencies, as you suggest, they actually occur when the frequency of brain waves is lower than that of normal consciousness, e.g. alpha brain wave activity is a range of hertz lower than that of beta brain wave activity (i.e. normal waking state).

in OBES you have 360 degree vision, if u dont have 360 degree vision u are just dreaming. also u sometimes have a silver cord connecting your astral body and physical body (its invisible sometimes) this thread was very frustrating to read. i face palmed a lot.

+

if u can interact with the physical world (such as moving an object, or talking to a physical person, or a physical person looks at you) you are dreaming.

your dream body is your astral body except its inside of you in dreams, but while outside it is the astral body. which is why you can add objects and people while in an OBE. also with OBEs you can pull friends out of their bodies and both people will remember the OBE

Lucid dreams and OoBE are 2 completely different things,
in a lucid dream you will go to bed, you will sleep and in a dream you will become aware of your surroundings and the context of the dream, you will also be able to counter/stop anything bad happening in that dream.

An OoBE on the other side is so much different.
You lay down and clear your mind, just like meditation,
You keep your mind awake all the time making sure you don't fall asleep.
You actually clear your mind so much that at certain point you become paralyzed as if the time stopped.
After that you will have a moment to completly stop thinking about your body. Then you will enter the vibration state

Basically after that you're on your own you got a last step to do to clear your mind completly but I think it's different for everyone.
The difference between OoBE's and Lucid dreams is that you are in complete control from begin to the end in OoBE, and in Lucid dreams you become aware of your surroundings while you're dreaming.

Edit: Wow, sorry, I didn't even read angie's post before posting, but yeah exactly what she said there.

Actually what you just explained is the difference between DILDs and WILDs, both of which are lucid dreams, just different entry techniques. A DILD (Dream Initiated Lucid Dream) is a normal dream in which you suddenly become lucid. A WILD (Wake Induced Lucid Dream) is one in which you fall asleep (body) while remaining conscious (mind) and some people go through the vibration/SP thing, some don't. But many people say that, since the induction technique for OBE/ Astral Porjection is the same as for a WILD lucid dream, that they're probably just specific types of lucid dreams.

i'll toss in my viewpoint real quick here from my own experiences in that when you have as you put "astral projection" experience (i hate calling it that because of the hype mysticism factor that goes along with it) there is a moment during the event where you feel an actual physical sensation of seperation in most cases. as always in experiences like this though, nobody really knows but you as the person who had that personal experience what really happened.