If dreaming is localized exclusively to your brain, how is it someone can share the same dream with another person? Who is in who's head? namaste.
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If dreaming is localized exclusively to your brain, how is it someone can share the same dream with another person? Who is in who's head? namaste.
I have wondered this as well. I'm thinking that a lot of shared dreaming experiences may actually be astral projection. I really have no idea as i have never had a shared dream myself. I wouldn't say that dreaming is localized to our brain though, if we are all one consciousness then shared dreaming doesn't seem farfetched at all, to me anyway. :D Namaste my friend, sorry i dont have a scientific answer :P
Yes we are of the same belief on the topic of one consciousness and shared dreaming, and in general it's nothing hard to grasp at all, but im wondering if there is a scientific western logical explanation out there for shared dreaming. How do you explain it, Is what Im wondering?:shadewink:
Moved to beyond dreaming.
Haha yeah I figured thats what you meant and I am curious if there is one as well
I will explain this the best I can, I'm a science geek ^-^
It hasn't really happened to me, and I'm not exactly sure how it happens, but your brain is very powerful. Only 30% of it is used (actually proven, this isn't a myth), at least when we're awake. When you fall asleep and dream, the other 70% might be unlocked. This would make it more powerful than any computer available. It could easily send the energy in it long distances, and some things can't be explained.
Some of that was probably not true, but that's always how I thought of it. I definitely believe it's possible.
Well, any theories out there are just conjecture. I'm not saying they're wrong, since Alpha's theory sounds pretty believable, but there is no conclusive proof or explanation to shared dreaming unfortunately :/
I still believe that shared dreaming, regardless of any explanation, is possible. :3
That's because dreaming is not limited to taking place inside your mind, because the universe (infinite-verse of multi-verses really) is mind. In order to explain shared dreaming, you need to have a sense of intuition in visualizing what I am going to say. But first, let us start with the basic building block of everything that exists period: energy.
Take any item in the universe that you can think of, from the most simple, on up to the most complex. Each of these items adheres to the very same principle of being made up entirely of energy. All things will break down into cells or molecules, down into atoms, down into quarks and even further refined down to the most basic form of energy that exists. Atoms and smaller are always in a state of vibration. Everything you can see around you is vibrating either incredibly fast or incredibly slow, and your energetic center of perception, trained to perceive the way it currently does, cannot see this. Later in your dreaming practices, you will be able to see energy directly. Energy is infinite, and it is best to visualize a sea that just never ends, or the furthest reaches of outer space. Energy is alive, it is consciousness, it is all things within itself, yet far beyond the capabilities of the most powerful super-computer cloud network you could possibly imagine.
Energy started to change itself to create forms that were and were not compatible with each other, creating rules and configurations of itself (dimensions, planes, realms, etc.) and changing in trillions upon trillions of ways (creating beings). Self-aware beings were created so that energy could interact with itself from and uncountable number of viewpoints. You, whoever you may be, are just as much a part of this same unified whole mind of energy as anything else that exists. Once the rules were set in place for whatever part of the whole those rules were for, everything must now play out. The "playing out" is your free will.
What you do with your life is enhance your awareness. All the learning you seek, the improvement you desire, all of it is simply enhancing your awareness with your life experiences. The one problem, however, is dreaming is your way of accessing the whole of energy, yet it is specifically said to be meaningless or symbolic and subconscious, and people just eat these things up, because they do not know any better. The guy with the PhD said it, he is clearly correct. I wonder if anyone realized the cells of your body collectively have a consciousness. This cellular consciousness has been dubbed the subconscious. The cells, are both perfect record keepers, and perfect instruction followers. What you engage yourself in through repetition becomes second-nature because the cellular consciousness follows the instructions given perfectly and automatically, so long as you repeat them enough that it becomes habit. This is why habits are hard to break, but easy to get into.
Your standard memory banks are where your experiences are stored when you were consciously aware of the experience at the time, and there is no emotion or reaction tied to anything stored here. Your cellular consciousness or subconscious stores experiences that are considered a threat to your existence, or physically painful events that are serious such as broken bones or serious bleeding, or receiving a knockout blow, and all perceptions of said experiences including visio if available, sound, taste, smell and touch. Emotional turmoil is also stored in your subconscious and used as a defense mechanism to prevent you from experiencing the same or a similar situation again. This is why you become uneasy when encountering a similar situation to one that severely hurt you.
It is your subconscious telling you to get out, that last time you were in this situation, survival was threatened. It takes over control from the conscious mind, and I'll explain how in a moment. The same is true of physical pain in a high enough degree. This defense (survival) mechanism of the subconscious starts when you are a zygote, because at that point you are simply a collection of cells, but any threat to the existence of these cells is recorded directly into the cell, like the grooves of a vinyl record after it has been recorded, the perception available in the very very early stages of child development in the womb is only sound, and at first these words have no meaning to the cells, it is later when the child has learned the definition of and understands the words contained in these moments that they can become a problem on the subconscious level. As the child continues to develop, there gets to be a point where physical pain due to hitting the walls of the womb with force with mom-to-be doing small, clumsy things like bumping into a wall, a table, stopping too hard while driving, flopping down into a comfortable seat, flopping into bed, intercourse, stopping herself from almost falling down some stairs, eating food that upsets her stomach really bad, constipation, and the list goes on and on.
You say, how can they record sound if the zygote and developing child has no ears? Simple, they are recorded like a vinyl record is recorded. Sound waves grooved into the base material, that when attached to something that can play them, sound comes out. Once your conscious mind can understand the content of these recordings, the subconscious will use the knowledge of the meaning of the words and use them as commands, because it considers them to be instructions. As a side note, DNA is instructions, everything from the most basic on up, was made with energetic instructions.
What this means, is that words recorded contained in these moments of pain, become problems for the child and later, adult if the definitions to those words are learned and understood later in life, because all the cells know how to do is follow instructions. Before we had homonymic languages where words can sound the same but have different meanings and associations, this feature of ourselves was useful. There were no words to become various errant commands on the subconscious level with power to over-ride the conscious mind when later understood. These words are now commands linked to a moment where survival was threatened for us later humans, and every word has a most literal meaning. They are simple simon, the subconscious itself, is simple simon. It is only responsible for non-lucid dream content based on what it contains, but is not responsible for the process of dreaming itself. The only thing your subconscious is responsible for, is following instructions, no matter how errant, and keeping records based on survival value.
These random collections of words become commands to the cells. Hypnotism is the literal implanting of instructions to the cells, called the subconscious mind, and this is why when the signal is given to someone who is suggest-able, the instructions are followed perfectly and automatically. Let's say there's a bump on the head in the womb because mom flopped down onto bed causes pain for the unborn child (which it does, the amnotic fluid is strictly for healing the developing child, which is why abortions had a low success rate long ago. You can poke a child all full of holes in the womb and destroy the brain, but it will heal perfectly while in that fluid. The amnotic fluid does NOT however, provide any protection for the child, and they will feel pain from clumsy mom having a moment.), and then a news cast is playing, talking about bad eyesight and astigmatism, with a cause being a hard bump on the head. Tf this child were to hit his head hard on something while knowing some information about bad eyesight is like, his vision is likely to start to degrade, and can end up in astigmatism. I know this from personal experience, my brother was the victim of this exact scenario. He no longer has astigmatism, his eyes repaired themselves when he found this moment.
You see, these moments in the pre-natal happened before you had your conscious mind, so each time one of these moments is re-stimulated by similar events and situations or arguments in your life, you do not remember them, because you did not consciously experience them, so your conscious mind does not know why you feel the way you do to act the way you are thinking of acting, such as an unknown phobia, even suppressed sexual preferences or fetishes. Hence the term "I was born this way". They certainly were, but it was at the fault of someone's words while they were in pain, in the womb. This is a bold claim, I know, but I will give you a chance to have it proven in a moment. For post-birth moments, the main link to these pre-natal recordings was not having a conscious mind to analyze these experiences to determine their survival value in the first place, and so the conscious mind is bypassed and control exerted by the subconscious even after birth. Your conscious mind is a perfect computational machine, stronger and faster than any super-computer we will ever see as a species. It's these moments of errant data that mess with it. Psychosomatic illness will be repaired by your body when the you find the moment and words that was their cause.
When it encounters one of these moments, it reacts the same way a person reacts when hypnotized and given the signal to follow the implanted commands; they have no idea why they feel the way they do, and make up a reason for following the command, without even knowing they are following it. The first reasonable explanation that comes up is what the mind gives for this errant behavior because at all times it must be correct. When a person has gone back through their life and relived these moments of pre-natal pain, post-natal severe physical pain and emotional turmoil, either through their dreams or wide awake with a partner directing them, they take more and more locked away energy, that was needed to store these emotions and experiences for "survival defense". Their mind is more and more clear. Ever hear the saying that we use some low percentage of our minds? When you are done with this process you will have gained control over the entire capacity, 100%. Free from irrationality. You can remember every moment of your life, with all perceptions that were present.
If you want the process to be used when wide-awake with a partner directing you (which is quite an easy process), let me know and I'll post that. The directing partner will not be acting as a therapist, and will do very little talking, the talking will be done by the one lying down retrieving their experiences, because they will be reciting all the perceptions (including conversations, which will be recalled in their entirety, even if you were asleep at the time, and this might take a few recounting of the event to gather all the details as they will fill in for the person in their mind's eye, but very vividly, as in a waking dream flashback), and since it is THEIR experience, it is not the partners place to say a single word regarding them. He/she simply listens and computes whether or not the event should be recounted to gather more detail, or to move on, because the event has been gathered completely. You might wonder how one would search for these events, and it is very simple. The mind knows how the mind works, and the person's mind will give up anything that needs to be retrieved. This is an effort of pure cooperation.
If you are to be successful in your dreaming practices, reaching the furthest places imaginable in the universe, and shared dreaming on these planes and in these realms with others (other beings too), this is a process you will have to undergo. It might take you a few months or longer, but it is worth it. It allows you to go through your entire life and objectively look at emotional situations and understand them better, restoring the locked away emotional life force you attached to this memory unknowingly because of its severity to the subconscious. For moments when you were not consciously aware due to extreme pain, these events will be refiled into your standard memory banks as an experience. Most scenarios of the most suppressed and negative emotions end with you laughing at how meaningless it all was. None of your most painful memories will bother you ever again. All you simply do is intend to return through your subconscious bank of memory before you go to sleep, or while you are lucid.
You can shout "I want to retrieve my lost energy from (insert pre-natal or post-natal here) life experiences!" You say "but what if my mind is just making the pre-natal stuff up? I can't really remember those things". Well you started off as a small collection of cells. Every cell in your body contains the data of every other cell in your body. This means the experiences of your cells from conception to beyond is also contained by every other single cell in your body because of the process of replication. They are a collective consciousness. Subconscious is now quite a devious name for it, isn't it? If you want the cold hard proof, return your mind to your birth and relive that experience twice through, taking in every second of the entire experience. Confirm the experience and what was said and went on around you with your parents. Their eyes will grow very wide.
The conscious mind projects dreams onto the whole of energy when a person is lucid. Normal dreams are various symbolic items and events from your subconscious memory bank projected when you are not lucid, including habits, fears, and stem from these pre-natal and post natal experiences the subconscious has stored for your survival, which happens to be its survival too. When you have none of these experiences left to retrieve, you are always lucid, always aware in dreams. Astral projection becomes much easier, as you will not be so itchy to jump back into your body. You contain all your life's experiences from conception to now in your standard memory, your conscious mind's memory, this is what holds people back, and makes them scared of looking at their own body lying in bed.
But you wonder why I said all that just to explain how shared dreaming is possible? Well I did that in the very first few lines, everything is energy. Look at any item in your room, and know that item is energy and the same energy at its most basic form that makes up you, and the air "inbetween" you and that item. That's one of the biggest illusions, separation. Nothing is separate, all is connected. We are all a part of one whole, one mind, the all of energy. People who are shared dreaming are doing something we are all doing right now, just on a different plane. We've just not been taught to harness it, because the foolish think money and power is what matters. Life on Earth is a shared dream in the whole of energy. You sleep for 1/3rd of your life because you were put here to interact with others in this dream that has continuity. You restore energy for the vehicle for this realm, your matter body, by sleeping and expend it with movement and exercise. You restore energy to your conscious mind and energy body through claiming all of your life experiences, the pre-natal, non-aware, severely physical, and emotional from your subconscious, removing the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" and putting you in the "here and now", and utilize it through dreaming. Realize there is no destination, and you become free.
NOTE: The pre-natal recordings are most important. All of them, and exclusively, the first one you received, are responsible for all others being able to be created post-birth with the power to take control from the conscious mind, despite feeling in control, yet knowing deep down those actions were not ones self. This is again, because when you received your first one, you did not yet have a conscious mind. Relive and retrieve these experiences WITH your conscious mind either through dreaming or with a partner in reverie, and their commands are gone, the errant data now filed as an experience in the standard memory. Removing these will take the most time, and once gone, the rest are cleared away very quickly.
Everything starts with your mindset, because your mind is the most powerful tool you have available to you, if you care to utilize it. Align yourself with your true self, the whole self, and every door you can imagine flings right open. Shared dreaming in realms you didn't create that are as real as Earth's and incredible astral projections is but one of those doors.
I'm sorry, but Wikipedia disagrees. 10% of brain myth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaQuote:
It hasn't really happened to me, and I'm not exactly sure how it happens, but your brain is very powerful. Only 30% of it is used (actually proven, this isn't a myth), at least when we're awake. When you fall asleep and dream, the other 70% might be unlocked. This would make it more powerful than any computer available. It could easily send the energy in it long distances, and some things can't be explained.
"Though factors of intelligence can increase with training, the idea that large parts of the brain remain unused, and could subsequently be "activated" for conscious use, is without foundation. Although many mysteries regarding brain function remain, every part of the brain has a known function."
I'm not trying to argue about shared dreaming or the capabilities of the brain, but if Wikipedia doesn't know about this "proof" I am doubtful of it's validity. (if you actually have links or sources I would like to see them)
Well, there are many things that scientists do not understand. Just because we don't understand something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
"Everything unknown is doubted"
Why do you assume that?Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamcatcher81
I was just playing devils advocate, i dont think dreaming is localized to the brain as many do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WakingNomad
It has been proven with MRI's that only 30% of your brain is used.Quote:
I'm sorry, but Wikipedia disagrees. 10% of brain myth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Well, not proven, but it has been tested before. It's probably different for different people.
And you really shouldn't believe everything you read on Wikipedia.
I'm sorry, but this is simply not true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha502
At least, in the sense that I don't know of any neurologist who would agree with you. Do you have any sort of credible source for this?
I don't have a brain scanner but i'm certain there are more neurons firing when you dream than when you are awake. I predict that there are probably neurons active that never are unless you are in deep meditation. Which is essentially what sleep is. I'll find out later about this. But i did hear some neurologists who claimed it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
I thought of so many ways how shared dreaming might be possible they can't all be true. The easiest one is to say you have a spirit and it leaves ur body when u dream. Visiting all sorts of places. Might be true, i don't think so.
If i excersice some pseudo-science i can get some ideas . I think the brain works at the quantum level, i'm not sure but then again everything is working at quantum level. But.. quantum physics might explain shared dreaming. Quantum entanglement and non-locality. Both seem pretty much like the same. I don't know. Basically what i understand from it is that particles can communicate instantly with another particle on long distance faster than the speed of light.
I'm not sure how this works i don't claim to understand it. I'd love to know how but it's like trying to learn japanese.
Everything is quantum entangled with everything else. I think neurons communicate with each other instantly aswell, so why not with other brains. When i think dreaming i think the awareness stopped looking out the eyes and started going inward into the quantum level. Since everything in this universe is essentially made up of the same thing. When you go deeper into the core of what we are made of everything is the same. Same stuff, same dreams. I actually think shared dreaming might not actually be shared. Just two minds going trough the same information that is out there, always. Just you traveling trough it.. This would explain that shared dreaming might not be bonded by time.
Or.. mind is the substance that makes up everything else. Then lucid dreaming is just you waken up to that fact. It's not even you sleeping.
Yeah, I know enough about quantum entanglement; non-locality; superposition; etc; to be aware of the possibility. But, as it stands, it is a pretty small possibility. Such phenomena as entanglement happen at such incredibly small (quantum) scales, that it would be quite hard for entire streams of consciousness (from one person to the next, or from one or more people to a 'dream plane') to do so with any sort of cohesiveness - at least, in my opinion. Theoretically, it could be possible (I'm very open-minded about different facets of quantum and holographic theory), but I wouldn't jump to the conclusion. For me, dream content is just way to inconsistent for me to have any firm belief in there being some objective reality to shared dreaming. I'm open to it, sure, but I just find it so hard to place faith in something that I have experienced so much evidence against.
I am curious as to the idea, though.
I believe shared dreaming is real. Once when I was lucid, I decided to go to the moon. I had never read wakingnomad's dream journal but I had seen his posts about going to the moon. When I got there I was in a bidome. I saw a large cat like creature, and a lot of portals. Later when I woke up I posted these results, and he sent me the link to a dream journal entry from a while ago where he described exactly what I saw. I had never read the entry so theres no way I could have already known about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
But I find i so hard to not place faith in something that many people have experienced so much to wipe out the possibility of it being disproved??Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
xD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atras
Wow thats awesome. I wanna go to the moon now :)
An interesting experience. Are you saying that, because of an experience that could have been similar, you have faith that it is real? That would be to completely disregard other things that are known about dreams, including the fact that they can create false memories (confusing things that happened in dreams with things that happened in real life) and prompting false dream recall elements due to waking life influences (that sometimes our recollection of what happened in a dream can be swayed by such things as bias and hope). To be faced with such contradictory elements and still exercise a faith in one or the other is not really objective reasoning, in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atras
You see, on the surface, that might seem like a compelling argument. It's really not. The notion that "many" people believe in anything is not a good reason to place blind faith into it. Many people believe that lights Do Not work in dreams. Many people believe that you cannot read in dreams. Many people believe that whenever you realize you're dreaming, you wake up. Many people believe that when you die in a dream, you wake up. These people may believe these things because of first-hand experience. However, these beliefs are not universally true. Are they, sometimes? Sure. But are they the objective, unequivocal truth? No.Quote:
Originally Posted by NightSpy2
So, many people experiencing something that they believe is true is - I repeat - not a substantial reason to believe the phenomenon is actually happening. Perception is everything, and many people perceive things that are not actually happening the way that they believe they are. I, myself, have experienced OBE's, but the fact remains that I have much more evidence to show that it was simply an experience that simulated leaving my body, rather than my conscious being actually leaving my physical body - however, I could see how easy it would be for some people to be swayed into believing the latter. I simply don't find myself as one to just place utter faith in something that is so fantastic, given the mountains and mountains of evidence to the contrary.
But to each his own, I guess.
Also, I often turn into a half-lion half-man in my dreams.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheModernNinja
Wow...but i'd rather prefer to be human lol....
Science doesn't even begin to have an explanation for shared dreaming. But of course there are a lot of things that are real that are not captured by current scientific models.
From my vantage point, its ridiculous when non-scientists talk authoritatively about vibrations, quantum effects, or DNA, and how these relate to intuitions or psychic conditions. Its not because it cuts against orthodoxy, or because its beyond what other people are familiar and comfortable with. Its ridiculous because glaringly false statements are made using words for things that the speaker is obviously almost not at all acquainted with. If you're a psychically inclined non-scientist, of course you have to try to make some sense of your experiences. But just as its wrong for scientists to dismiss things they don't understand as unreal, its wrong for psychically inclined people to presume understanding where they don't actually have it.
By profession I'm a 'research scientist' in electromagnetics. I don't consider myself an expert in a particular area, but I am close to experts in other areas such as cell biology, neurology, and various specialties of physics, and can ask them questions when I have them. Its not having PhD's that makes them experts, its having a deep familiarity and understanding of the subjects they study. I think a person has to do that in a sustained and rigorous way in at least some discipline to even have an idea what that is like. Imagination is not like that. A person can have deep and valuable intuitions on psychological and spiritual subjects, by human standards, but this isn't understanding in a scientific sense. I don't mean to diminish that intuitive familiarity, since it has value also, and we've got to start somewhere. But it really doesn't rise to the level of beginning to explain anything scientifically. Its like when a 4 year old is playing violin. Of course they should have confidence and pride in what they're doing. But if they start thinking that they're an accomplished professional before they can even play, they'll never get anywhere. In the context of scientifically explaining shared dreams, that's the situation we're all in, apparently.
Can electromagnetic waves alter brainwaves?Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowofwind
Yes, if they're strong enough and the right frequency. Electromagnetic (E&M) waves can also induce out of body experiences. A fallacy among skeptics is to conclude that electromagnetism explains or accounts for such phenomena. This is like saying that smacking someone's head with a brick alters their thoughts, therefore thoughts are made of bricks. It does show that thoughts are at least partially dependent on solid matter though, as well as electromagnetism. The reason I say electromagnetism can't account for it, is it can't convey the information that is required for some premonitions. And your brain doesn't put out a strong enough signal to communicate with someone else's brain electromagnetically, though we know communication is possible in dream also.Quote:
Originally Posted by WakingNomad
Fascinating. I am going to look further into this. This means brainwaves could be altered silently by remote.Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowofwind
Fortunately for most of us, they can't be altered selectively from a distance. At the brains surface you have a mess of activity, with no way to select a particular pattern somewhere deep in the brain. It would be like trying to type on a keyboard where they keys are microscopic compared to the size of your fingers, and furthermore buried beneath each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by WakingNomad
You would have much better success using paranormal means. Clearly there are supernatural entities of some sort that can selectively alter brain activity. And no doubt people can do that too if they develop themselves in that direction. I think its quite immoral to do it to someone else without some form of consent though. Otherwise it would amount to a kind of rape.
Yes. I am sure the Shadow Government is very interested in all kinds of rape.Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowofwind
lol. K here goes my attempt tonight!
Let's do it!Quote:
Originally Posted by TheModernNinja
For anyone interested in shared dreaming, the book "the Holographic Universe" is a must read, as well as AP and various other phernomenom.
K ill take a look at it.
@ Nomad: Freaking dry spell = no lucids. DAmit!
Here comes my 2 cents:
Isn't reality a shared dream? Whenever something is observed by two individuals it is said to be real. So doesn't that mean that individual reality doesn't exist relative to anyone else?
I think that consciousness is nonlocal, meaning that everything we observe is a end result of consciousness, we see the world through the lens of our perception. It is like we are always moving through mental space, like everything is a hologram.
So true. We don't really see anything we see. We perceive it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MatrixMaster92
Wow! I like that!! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by MatrixMaster92
It's so true, just like Nomad said. Perception is everything