Thread: Dream Entities (A Catalog of Inorganic / Ephemeral Life)

heheheh.... i wouldn't waste my time with anyone that didn't admit to being certifiable the really crazy people insist that they are absolutely sane. I've a preference for personal experiences, but if something 'rings of truth' or possibilty to you, by all means ... please share it.

Originally Posted by Sorcer

heheheh.... i wouldn't waste my time with anyone that didn't admit to being certifiable the really crazy people insist that they are absolutely sane. I've a preference for personal experiences, but if something 'rings of truth' or possibilty to you, by all means ... please share it.

Sorcer, your post 72 on you other thread reads:

Until i read some of the accounts here... i had never experienced a vibration or rumbling when sleep paralysis was setting in... but it was very real when it did happen just a couple days ago. Without someone else's account / explanation of what the hell that was, i probably wouldn't have had the foggiest idea*

"If i have seen further than other men, then it is because i have stood on the back's of giants."

NN (Nick Newport) said in L3 (Lucidology 103) that he uses the vibrations that can accompany sleep paralysis to fill his heart charkra with energy. This in turn gives energy to all his other charkras. This makes it possible to bypass all the lower places so he can go to his Oversoul.

He gives exersices of what to do to interact with ones Oversoul.

He says to look in a mirror, when lucid dreaming. To see the other incarnaions, that the Oversoul you are part of, has on Earth, right now.

Soon after i began trying out filling my heart with enthusiasm. And tuning into my “Blue Sky Scanario“ as i was going to sleep. I had this dream.

I went into s big fancy hotel and asked for the keys to my room. A very kind manager gave me my keys and took me to me room, several floors up. I got into bed in this very posh hotel suit, and went to sleep.

Next, i was woken by a big, strong but polite man. He asked why was i in his room and in his bed. I said that i got given the room.

Then the manager was there apologising for the mix-up. And he would give me another room. The other guest said he would also come with me.

I went over to a mirror to clean my teeth. But instead of cleaning my teeth I used the tooth brush to brush my beard. In the mirror i was a big strong man with a beard and mo.

I went with the manager to a bar, casino. I wasnt scared because I belonged here. I knew folk and was respected.

When i posted this dream someone on saltcube who was doing L3 pointed out to me that the hotel was my living Oversoul. And the man who woke me is a kindred soul. He was one of my Oversouls other incarnations on Earth right now.

When i looked in the mirror I became that incarnation. He probably is a big, respected, bearded man. Who works in a hotel casino.

I think that Redking

May have met in person, a kindred spirit when he met that woman in Russia. In post 24 of this thread.

Originally Posted by Sorcer

I have read all of his books ... and am actually in the process of re-reading them now. But they are my own experiences and i have never experienced some of the things that he talks about like 'luminous eggs' ... and "seeing" the luminous fibers of the world... and a fair bit of what i have seen i dont recall reading about anywhere else. The entities that i have described (with the exception of shape shifters) i have all seen at least twice in the waking world. I don't trust my dreams well enough to believe everything that i see in them... but when you are awake, as stated before, it can be difficult if not impossible to doubt what you are seeing with your own "eyes". By which i mean, my eyes could have been either open or closed at the time and it would not have mattered. I have seen these things in full sobriety. I have seen them after a period of meditation. I have seen them while using hallucinogenic drugs. Approximately half of the entities described were cooroborated by a second eye-witness at the time. (Full ephemerals, overt presence, and distinguished presence.) For the rest ... you would have to question my sanity, i am sure

Sane people are brainwashed.

Originally Posted by redking

maybe not floating eyes...but you may have experienced external stimulli (entities) without even noticing.
I´m saying maybe, not saying you did.

How does one experience without noticing? You mean like if a mosquito bites me, but I don't notice it?

Originally Posted by Sorcer

heheheh.... i wouldn't waste my time with anyone that didn't admit to being certifiable the really crazy people insist that they are absolutely sane. I've a preference for personal experiences, but if something 'rings of truth' or possibilty to you, by all means ... please share it.

I never trust anyone that tells me they are sane. I don't believe anyone that tells me they are crazy. If anyone says they are a shaman, they want your money. True shamans always deny they are shamans. This is a universal truth. The only way to tell a true shaman is by how good of a liar they are. Insanity is justification to imprison magicians. It is also a way to imprison whistleblowers that are being harassed by the CIA and FBI.

Two symptoms definitions of schizophrenia :

1) magical thinking - the person thinks they have magical powers

2) paranoia - they think the CIA or FBI is "out to get them"

Fuck sanity.

This is my personal perception of the Dream Plane entities:

Dreamers
A Dreamer human from this dimension, this place of existence.

Dream Characters
Dream Characters are manifestations of an entity's mind.

Astral Parasites
These are non-sentient energy parasites that live on the dream and astral planes, especially in wormholes leaving Urth (Earth.)

Nightstalkers
A Nighstalker is a combination of a dream demon and a dreamer.

Sentient Interdimensional Beings

Demons
Dream Demons- Dream Demons feed off of negative energy. They live primarily on the dream plane, and invade dreams to make people have nightmares.

Astral Demons- Astral Demons also feed off negativity on the Astral Plane, and make people have nightmares by surrounding them with cold, fear energy as they sleep.

Angels-Angels are guardian spirits which battle demons and heal people.

Dream Warriors- Dreamers who have learned how to battle in dreams.

Dream Guide- A spirit guide that is specifically for dreams.

Spirit Guide- A spirit that lends you wisdom, and may battle with you in dreams, and the astral plane.

Gods- Extremely powerful entities living primarily on the dream plane.

Ghosts- Spirits of humans stuck on the astral plane, because they don't realize they have died

Spirits- spirits between physical lifetimes.

Fictional Characters:
In a multiverse of infinite possibilities, everything is true. Therefore all fictional characters exist in one dimension or another. This means cartoon characters are real.


Wormhole Wyrms-
Dragons which live in Wormholes and feed off the energy of the wormhole, and keep them free of astral parasites.

Semi-Sentient
Entities with a level of sentience like a mammal.

Non-Sentient
Entities with a level of sentience such as bacteria.

[QUOTE=WakingNomad;1739526]Sane people are brainwashed.



How does one experience without noticing? You mean like if a mosquito bites me, but I don't notice it?

QUOTE]



Well, more like some entities are around you (while you are awake) but in different "frequencies"...so you dont notice them, they can even pass right through you.

Originally Posted by debrajane

Very exciting

Nick Newport talks about Oversouls in Lucidology 103. Lobsang Rampa wrote about them in Chapers of Life back in the 1960s. I think Oversouls are the missing-link in this conversation about “entities.

Mmmmm

I am a bit nervous about going any further with this in case i am misunderstood and picked on.

Well, by all means, please explain the concept of oversouls, you wont be picked on by me. You got my attention so...

(WakingNomad) "This is my personal perception of the Dream Plane entities:

Astral Parasites - These are non-sentient energy parasites that live on the dream and astral planes..."

How would you describe the size or appearance of this type?

"Nightstalkers - A Nighstalker is a combination of a dream demon and a dreamer."

So a human being is in league with an unpleasant sort of entity and they ... do what exactly?

"Dream Demons - Dream Demons feed off of negative energy. They live primarily on the dream plane, and invade dreams to make people have nightmares."

Very interesting, this would also remind me of Floating faces feeding off of energy except that in this case they are actually able to strongly affect a person to elicit the craved for negative emotional energy.

"Astral Demons - Astral Demons also feed off negativity on the Astral Plane, and make people have nightmares by surrounding them with cold, fear energy as they sleep."

I'll have to do some reading i guess... unless you would care to propose a brief description of how the world of dreams differs from the astral plane ?

"Angels - Angels are guardian spirits which battle demons and heal people."

I remember back 10 years or so ago when i still had a problem with my drug of choice... i could hear very clear voices in my mind saying, "don't do this to yourself... for the sake of humanity..." so, i guess i do believe in guardian angels - though most entities just seem to bask in your well being (rather than your misery) if that is their particular predilection

"Dream Warriors - Dreamers who have learned how to battle in dreams."

I think this is my favorite one What a happy possibility. Spiritual warriors doing battle for the good of the world on an entirely different battle ground.

"Gods - Extremely powerful entities living primarily on the dream plane."

Perhaps this is what i would call an "Overt Presence" - thing which is so far removed from our ordinary perception and understanding that we can only begin to sense that they are much more powerful than ourselves. If that's the case, the "God" that i met was particularly friendly.

"Ghosts - Spirits of humans stuck on the astral plane, because they don't realize they have died"

These perhaps are what i have called 'Full Ephemeral Figures'. Makes me wonder then if i am sometimes privy to this 'astral plane' even though i'm not having an out of body experience but am wide awake... Except that the figures i have run across seemed to be aware of both their world and our own... so they did know they were dead. But the ephemeral deer running down the railroad tracks that i saw very much did believe that it was still alive and in danger of being mowed down (once again) by the very real train that was behind it.

"Fictional Characters:
In a multiverse of infinite possibilities, everything is true. Therefore all fictional characters exist in one dimension or another. This means cartoon characters are real."

What would cause them to become cohesive? Do they mimic someone's figment of imagination? They are not self created.... So how could they be self-existent?

"Wormhole Wyrms-
Dragons which live in Wormholes and feed off the energy of the wormhole, and keep them free of astral parasites."

Do you mean blackholes? Or do you mean 'doorways' that only exist in dreams? What use in a door in the dreaming world?

"Semi-Sentient - Entities with a level of sentience like a mammal."

Also very interesting ... when you consider that some mammals (perhaps many or all for all i know) also dream. But i'm sure that you mean that they are completely incoorporeal.

"Non-Sentient - Entities with a level of sentience such as bacteria."

What would these type of entities look like? How would you even come to notice them?

Thanks for sharing, bro. Interesting stuff.

debrajane,

so, if i'm getting this right .... an 'Oversoul' is like a being greater than ourselves... and we are like it's finger-puppets... in that it has a mask or a face that it is wearing on each finger ? And so we would share some deeper connection with certain persons because we are manifestations of a larger consciousness ? does this gentleman predict or posit just how many persons may share in this type of connection under a single Oversoul ?

Post 34 of tread "Dream Entities"

Sorcer wrote

" debrajane,

so, if i'm getting this right .... an 'Oversoul' is like a being greater than ourselves... and we are like it's finger-puppets... in that it has a mask or a face that it is wearing on each finger ?

And so we would share some deeper connection with certain persons because we are manifestations of a larger consciousness ?

does this gentleman predict or posit just how many persons may share in this type of connection under a single Oversoul ?"

Hi Sorcer

There are two gentle men, Lobsang Rampa and Nick Newport.

First, this is what Lobsang wrote:

Post 5 & 6 of my thread in the Newbie Zone, called, I Am Here Dr. Who, Thanx To You.

***The late Lobsang Rampa's take on the overself from his book called Chapters of Life, 1967.

Page 36

As I turned away (from the street puppet show) I thought of the things I had learned in Tibet, I thought of my beloved Guide the Lama Mingyar Roundup, and how he had shown me that man is just a puppet of his Overself.(...)

Man is nine-tenths subconscious and one-tenth conscious.(...)

Remembering that Man is so little 'conscious' does it not occur to you what a shocking waste of time it is for a powerful, powerful Overself, gifted with all manner of abilities and talents, pulsing with the power of a more vibrant world and a different way of life, who comes to This world laden with troubles and obstacles, and then (have) to function at, at most, one-tenth of its ability? (...)

(...) But think of it in terms of human existence; mankind is like a ten-cylinder car only one cylinder of which works, the other nine are 'subconscious'. Wasteful, isn't it?

The Overself of a human--or any other creature either, for that matter--does not waste energy; (...)

(Lobsang Rampa first talks about what an advanced Oversoul might be up to. Then talks about a beginner Oversoul.)

Supposing our Overself is more or less a beginner, then you can say that it is the same as a student in a secondary school. The student has to attend a number of classes instead of having to learn just one subject, often this means that the student has to walk to different classes or to different centres, and that really does waste a lot of time and energy.

The Overself is in a far more satisfactory position.

It is the puppet master. ***

*** 2nd (Lobsang Rampa) post, page 38.

Upon this world which we call Earth there is a puppet which is in the Earth body, and which functions with one-tenth of the Overself's attention. (...)

To get back to our student (...)

(...) Supposing the Overself has been a bit slow or a bit lazy, and has had various setbacks (...) (to catch-up with the other students, it might start cramming...)

The Overself may have a person living one life in Australia, and may have yet another person doing something else in Africa.

Perhaps there will be another one in South America, or Canada, or England;*

There may be more than 3. There may be 5 or 6 or 7.*

These people might never meet on Earth and there would still be very much in affinity with each other, they may have telepathic report without in any way understanding why, but then occasionally they would meet in the astral just as salesmen sometimes meet in the sales manager's office.

(...)

But what is the purpose of all this, you might ask.

Well, that's easy to answer:

By having a number of puppets the Overself can have vast experience and can live ten lives in just one lifetime. ***

Sorcer

I am typing-up what the other gentleman, (Nick Newport) said about Overselves on his Lucidology 103, lesson one. I type slow so it might be a while before I come back.

This is about 7 minutes of the 36 minute lesson 1
of Nick's Lucidology 103,

AfterLife Explorers Kit
Week one

(...)

(15:38) And this brings up the very strange idea of the Oversoul. What is the Oversoul and is this something you can actually look at, does it have kind of form, can you touch it, what is it all about?

Well, in actuality you may be suprised about this but you can see your Overself and it looks like what you might not expect.

It looks like, basically, a big jellyfish floating up there in the.void, in the sky.

(...)

(16:46) And this is.what it may look like to you.

A few other people have written about this. Bruce Moen and a handfull of other people have written about having seen these things in OBEs and that these are your Oversouls. I think it's true because I've seen them as well.

(17:05) The idea is, your going to have this OBE. You're going to be floating out in space in a void, a black void. There's going to be nothing around except for these. Like a city of these glowing jellyfish Oversoul things. Enormous things the size of buildings, the size of skyscrapers, actually the size of city-blocks. They're rather large.

And they have these streamers going out of them and these streamers at the end of them have incarnations, physical incarnations. (17:39)

(...)

(7:59) And these physical incarnations are, there purpose is to explore and generate experience and answer questions that the Oversoul has come up with.

Each of these incarnations can not only be in different points, (geographically) but in difgerent times. And so this line here, that you are looking at, is a timeline. You can say this is the future, (I dont know if you can read that but) that is the future and so this'll be the past. And so you have these points along time. (18:30)

(...)

(18:59) And while we're on that topic I want to mention here about two of the other authors who have observed their Oversouls being in appearance to this.

One of them is Bruce Moen.

You can see here in this one of his books, Voyage to Curiosity's Father, a picture of a human being with a cord coming out of his back which goes up into space and is.connected to this disc object. And within the book he refers to these things as being discs or Oversouls. (19:30)

(19:54) The way I observed it was with multiple incarnations but there isn't any particular reason it couldn't be going into a single incarnation like that.

This is a really good book, I recommend checking this one out.

The other author I wanted to mention wrote this book, Matrix Five by Val Valerian. He was actually using this word Matrix, to describe the sort of spiritual prison, that the Earth is, long before the movies came out.

And in his diagrams you can see here, he has the white glowing jellyfish idea and cords attaching to incarnations, and cords going up to higher selves. And it may be kinda hard to see here but these actually should, as far as I can tell, continue with the joining of the cord up to the higher and higher selves. It seems to me, like, in this diagram, it's one Oversoul gors up to one of these orb things.

And that's a little differen't to how I see it. But, you know, it's pretty subjective put there, and, so little discreancies like that might not be especially important. It's one of those things that maybe you can explore on your own, once you get out there and have OBEs where you can look into these things.for your self.

(21:24) Now, one of the important things I wanted to mention about this was the way I dtew the connection from the Oversoul down into the incarnation. You'll notice a difference here. Bruce Moen has it so it connects in through the back here, similar to Carlos Castaneda's idea of Assemblage Piont.

And

Here in the Matrix book it comes down from the Oversoul and attaches through the top of the head.

And actually, really there is no functional difference between these two ways of drawing it, either through the back into the centre of the chest into the heart area versus down through the top of the head. And I'll talk about why there is no difference, no functional difference when we cover energy centers.

(22:11) But in the mean time, how we can use this, in a practical sense, right now, is to use this idea of how the Oversoul is organised to figure out ways that you can detect and see what's going on with your other incarnations.

(22:33) Oh and one other thing, both of these books are worth reading. This one here, (Matrix Five) I would suggest, when you read it, there are probably going to be certain parts you're going to agree with and certain parts that you do not. He really has a lot of really good insights and good ideas. And some of his ideas you may not agree with at all.

However

It is entirely possible to read it and just ignore the things you do not agree with and look for the things that are valuable. And, you know, one of the things I did get out of this was, his detailed anatomy of the way he percieves the Oversoul, here.

(962words)

Now Nick goes on to the "gold" of the "How to".

Just to bump this _important_ conversation up I'd like to add some of my personal experiences and views, this is going bit off-boundaries set by the original topic, but if this conversation opened up some of my personal rams And for MODs (to be Janeish) I'd like to say that if this post violates any rules by being strickt broadcast from my experiences or seeds any dangerous thoughts, I'd like to suggest that you move this to some art section as creative writing attempt in English and consider this as pure fiction, mythomania and tell-tale. Philosophy section might suit too:

This is going to be wall of text, so don't read this if you have problem with walls (any decent mtg player knows that walls can be put down easily with dynamic force. So please blast throught or deconstruct this brick by brick). I'm also using much and long brackets, even brackets inside brackets.. so if you want to understand surfacetext without subtle commentaries, ignore words inside brackets. I'm not holding you stupid, I don't even except you to read this, but this has become quite complicated text (not to mension complicated concepts)

Chapter One - something about paradigms, but turning into psychotic babling. skip this part if you wan't hear me on-topic, 'cause this chapter comes out in cryptic writings including brackets inside brackets and ethymologies of classical words

First I'd like to remind a thing about personal paradigms of reality. Every (let's say the rare and the alive to add emphasis to next word) dreamer has his personal take to reality and also deeper levels of it. Those levels that we study while dreaming (be this waking dreaming, sleeping dreaming or lucidD in either one). We get personal take and personal experiences of nature of dreaming (=reality). This is affected by everything that comes into our way. Every mythology, every religious and scientificic theory, every piece of fiction or popculture, every dream that we remember and maybe even more influental: every readily formed paradigm and paradigm founders experiences and the forms that they have given to their experiences (eg books by Carlos and experiences of Monroe) about dreaming (or reality) that touches us and gives us a portal to try upon. To make this more nutcase theory I'd like to say that maybe (just maybe) everything that comes to your waking life to affect your paradigm is product of you and your dreaming translated to your waking shelf. OK I said it, but I don't really think that it's just like that but that thought might give some directions to the reality (or to my paradigm). I have proofs in my delusional shelf that not everyone is producting their keys waking to this world but (in my delusional shelf) I'm pretty sure that everything in my waking dream is just how bigger adventure translates to waking shelf. This theory can't be fully understood without broken mirror (or revealing trip to the deeps of ones 'own' psyche) but I'm quite good expressing this with time and with my native tonlanguege and absolutely willing to talk to any psychiarist who wants to examine my view and sanity. To them I say: please, first reserve time in my schelude. I don't wan'ä't any whitecoats coming to pick me up now while I'm on slight sleep deprivation and also drunken. OK THNK U BAI. (not that I really am that paranoid but I'd like to keep this style up in my babling).

I live in diversing realities fully accepting not just multidimensionality and different versions of me in this time line but also different futures and what is not commonly thought: also that the past is ever changing. So (if u like it so: in my delusional state) it's sometimes hard to adjust in situations where something changes in past. In those succesfull hacks (matrix associations are so grey and not revealing the whole spectrum) I'm left with memories of past that no-one shares, or remembers. Like in PKDs novels. For your peas of mind: maybe I'm just setting a story and hoping it to become true 'cause I believe that fiction and dreaming recuired for fiction creates this factual world (to mess more with the time line: not just to-bees but also by-gones). Maybe these both are true, maybe I've been experiencing this (changing past) for quite a while and maybe I also know that facts, histories, personal-life-dramas come from the fiction rather than vice versa.

Maybe we're all in a dream. In different dreams (thou some are shared) hacking our way with words to share dreams in so-called waking life. Maybe world is more bigger and more mysterious and waking life is all that is translated from larger and more psychedelic (=soul revealing; according to the original ethymology of word) world into this narrow reality that we're all the way making more wide as we work. ---* small commersial break here: we're having big storm here at the moment, it's been building up up through the Night. So far it has been only beautifull like an old friend. I just went for a smoke (legal cigarettes) and saw one brave bird daring the wind. First thought it was a hawk but I was hoping too rare. Think it was pigeon (=dove). And for lulz: tabloids yesterday really suggested us to wear helmets today FGS helmets protecting from the storm - seriosly, what are they on. And back to the broadcast*--- Maybe I, like everyone here produces his/hers/insert:transpersonalpronoun:here own realities. Maybe just one of us here is real and we're everyone trying to hack into hers stasis. Maybe it's my reality (nc from the radio: that was when I rule the world) maybe it's yours. Maybe your neighbours and friends and every bypasser is somekind of DC like in the Trueman Show. Maybe it's not so simple. Maybe we're all breaking in, revealing our souls into this world called 'reality'. Remembering ourshelfs in somekind of anamnesia. I'm not professional LDremer nor have a good recal all the time. But I'm in par with this waking dream I'm living and I know personally many of mine imagitionborn friends that are part of older themes.

(PS [warning this my BS as my personal Belief System] [allthought this is not post scriptum 'cause I'm going to continue, after this]. I made this new person [person = mask = theatrical mask = ethymology of this word is per:through, sona:voice] Labyrint here in hope of you hacking into my psychotic solipsist diversed [multidimensional] story, now after recovering form anamnesia I'm undoing myself at the moment myself, but also connecting it to your stories and dreams. Btw it's quite phun that story means two things in english)

If you really wan't to live in the Now, you shouldn't block memories of past 'cause if you have them, they're in the Now (just look all things you have stored from your past and how they speak to you. Eg why you have that one unfinished schoolhomework at your place that is from years past). And be carefull how you spin the web of future: what you fear, what you expect and what you dream in your Imagi/e.nation. If you take this (was going to say seriosly, but some thinks should be banished with laughter) thing as real, you'll find the blocks and get to examine the mystery of ones own consiousness creating everything versus everybody (or freaking pantheistic everything) being equal subjectives versus somekind of collectively made Mechanism ruling boundaries of waking world.
You're in fact living in one hypermoment where time is superimposed. We're all living in this one hypermoment, whole time located in one tiny dot: every past, every future, every piece of fiction, every paraller timeline and universe. If you want to go to the Moment and think time as an illusion (but also locking mechanism of world, that should be lockpicked) U should accept, not only future full of possibilities, but also that the past is ever changing. In this ultime superposition of hypermoment you start to learn shards of your true being. It is slowly (or always in it's right tempo) opening learning experience. First mystery to examine is (I'm saying this as advice coming from loving mother) that of the love, because in the swamps deep denied sides of the Whole the lessons of love will come to carry you and remind you of why you took this ride (as mister Hicks put it) and who you are. And let me say the only one thing that is certain: I love you all :blush:

Chapter Two - this is *in topic*

Originally Posted by Sorcer

debrajane,

so, if i'm getting this right .... an 'Oversoul' is like a being greater than ourselves... and we are like it's finger-puppets... in that it has a mask or a face that it is wearing on each finger ? And so we would share some deeper connection with certain persons because we are manifestations of a larger consciousness ? does this gentleman predict or posit just how many persons may share in this type of connection under a single Oversoul ?

(Radio is playing something about dark side of the moon: "as long as you be my friend in the end" and "I ain't your cryptonite". I'm getting some Nomad vibes and am smiling). So anyone familiar with Morrisons theory of more multidimensionial creature coming into this 4 dimensional (4th is time, others is space) world and how it would appear here? He uses (with name Grant Morrison who is mainly a comixworker and a xaos macigian) 2d example of this when he puts his (3d) hand through imaginary 2d surface, all his fingers make subjective dots and beings all though there is only one hand. This is important when you thing of any 2d media like comics.
I've resently found that now there is a book written in time 1884 called Flatland: A Romance of Many Dimensions that studies this phenomenion of entering to a dimmension sharing different kind of numeric frameworks.
Dreams just seem to be somewhat outside the definated dimensional measures. They might be same as the big Xaos surrounding ordered world and existing inside the order waiting to be releashed. To use a different meta.phore: they might same as the big PSycheDelic (again: it's soul revealing) reality surrounding the diversed and subjective reality and existing inside the the diversed and subjective reality waiting to be releashed. Then there is this question about substance of soul and spirit.
I can talk about them because I have Now some gnostic touch that allows me to define them and it's not that I have made theories for a long time, but Now I'm mainly experiencing real?ity as I'm writing while riding my intuition (won't allow anyone to box this under automatic writing or chanelling 'cause this is not coming from outside - this room, traffic outside, morning radio-program and nature - oh the Wild - are all mirrors of me right now).

Spirit is different from consiousness outside this 4d waking world. They are not in conflict with each other, they just have different qualities, resonations and spheres (last one goes to all who are familiar with games called Mage: the Acension or Mage: the Awakening). Spirit is and can be best descriped by making stories and personifying everything. It comes true when you get into relationship with personified story that lives be itself and communicates with you. It also has something to do with breathing according to my native ton/language. From this I get to language. At least here (language as space to be) some moments, places or musics have a Spirit. Even people who debunk the existence of thing like spirit, use this word in acute sense. Same goes with soul. People who don't believe in it use it acutely.
Listen consiuosly how people use these words, to unlock them. Poets are best 'cause they really have a Ways with words. Allthough some soul-music might be bit cheesy (syrupish it what we use here) it's not called soul by accident. You can also find metal music that is soulfull : get's you into connection with your soul.
In the Invisibles there was telephatic bubble (that wasn't a speech bubble, cause the communication in that frame was not vocal) that opened some of my locks. It was like this: "soul is not inside you, you're inside your soul".

In the field of consiousness and in there might be just one being that is inside this 4d realm as all us subjective beings here (not only those that we consider consiousness. Maybe, let's say, even colors are consiouss). Then there might be subcreatures that are like 'oversouls': in some surreal level they are fully aware of every finger they have in fields of time and space, but are not the whole. Now towards the spirit. In the field of spirit there might be grandmother and grandfather spirits that embody and represent whole species of animals and plants etc. Let's add cars to the list to get deeper into dreamlogic. There are also smaller, more local and more subjective spirits of these families. This is just my interepation of some shamanistic views. Dreaming is still the key to mystery, these are just attemps to commune with logos to translate language of waking reality. Maybe in world of Spirit species want to crossbreed together in dreaming. They yern to cross the treshold of genetic possibilities and make new impossible forms and demispecies with their surroundings. Learn forms, habits and colors from their loved ones and start cracking their genetic systems even in molecular level. This, in my experience, is dream of nature. Think of this: zepratrains and postboxsquirrels, sounds like I dream, right? If we allow the world to dream and change, then it might (just might, if we accept that it has the Might) be so that we awake to subtly changed reality every morning. I'm speaking about the paperthin barrier between dreaming and waking world. And the barriers we face by following the path to dreamed Tomorrow. Every barrier is a bridge and bridge a barrier.

Originally Posted by debrajane

And actually, really there is no functional difference between these two ways of drawing it, either through the back into the centre of the chest into the heart area versus down through the top of the head. And I'll talk about why there is no difference, no functional difference when we cover energy centers.

This sounds like a system to me. Hearth is commonly interconnected with soul, feeling and love and top of the head is interconnected with consiousness, love and soul. These are areas of body system that are both long linked to love and soul. There is no part in us that is not connected to them, but in long held systems those are links that are easy to tap to those consepts that are somehow divided from us. Not always, not to everyone but this seemed to be too common.

Originally Posted by Sorcer

(WakingNomad)
"Nightstalkers - A Nighstalker is a combination of a dream demon and a dreamer."

So a human being is in league with an unpleasant sort of entity and they ... do what exactly?

We're all tied to everything, our darkness is deep and denied mystery. Nightstalkers as Nomad names them are in my understanding product of our attempt to face those sides, heal them and heal collective (religious and mythology-tied in many sense real) traumas. Part us and dem. One healing key is to acknowlidge that they are part of us. Nomad can correct me if I'm wrong.

Originally Posted by Sorcer

(WakingNomad)
"Dream Demons - Dream Demons feed off of negative energy. They live primarily on the dream plane, and invade dreams to make people have nightmares."

Very interesting, this would also remind me of Floating faces feeding off of energy except that in this case they are actually able to strongly affect a person to elicit the craved for negative emotional energy.

This is not unfamiliar to me. I think them as fingerprints of nightstalkers as I view them.

Originally Posted by Sorcer

(WakingNomad)
"Astral Demons - Astral Demons also feed off negativity on the Astral Plane, and make people have nightmares by surrounding them with cold, fear energy as they sleep."

I'll have to do some reading i guess... unless you would care to propose a brief description of how the world of dreams differs from the astral plane ?

Never projected myself so that I have any memory of it. But I have some insight about astral dreams and trying to hack barriers between astral and dreaming (and also and mainly barrier between waking world, where I'm more skilled)

Originally Posted by Sorcer

(WakingNomad)
(WakingNomad)

"Angels - Angels are guardian spirits which battle demons and heal people."

I remember back 10 years or so ago when i still had a problem with my drug of choice... i could hear very clear voices in my mind saying, "don't do this to yourself... for the sake of humanity..." so, i guess i do believe in guardian angels - though most entities just seem to bask in your well being (rather than your misery) if that is their particular predilection

I have love/hate, war/peace relationship with judeochristian angels. Mainly 'cause some modern views deny their darker sides. Outside the dualistic illusion and war between heaven and hell they are complite and whole beings of love and blessing

Originally Posted by Sorcer

(WakingNomad)
(WakingNomad)

"Dream Warriors - Dreamers who have learned how to battle in dreams."

I think this is my favorite one What a happy possibility. Spiritual warriors doing battle for the good of the world on an entirely different battle ground.

I'm a warrior but my main weapons are symphatic connetions towards anything, connection with my soul and logos and relationship with my sister/lover/mother Sophia. I also tend to make battlefields cause I'm not dull violent-games-are-bad-for-yor-spiritual-being sort of dude. I just feel that if you go into consiuoss battle scene (it's esthetic and beautifull as it best, and death is a lie) you should add some love, mercy and logos to every strike.

Originally Posted by Sorcer

(WakingNomad)
"Gods - Extremely powerful entities living primarily on the dream plane."

Perhaps this is what i would call an "Overt Presence" - thing which is so far removed from our ordinary perception and understanding that we can only begin to sense that they are much more powerful than ourselves. If that's the case, the "God" that i met was particularly friendly.

I must dissagree with Nomad in this. Gods are present everywhere. You might need some evoking, invoking, good storytelling, imagening and waking world dreaming to see their presence. They only are gods with small letters, and they know that I'm not insulting them. Just speaking with the spirit of truth. They are stories, archetypes, loas, personalities, masks (that wear us and masks that we can wear) and everchanging dudes and dudettes. If we wan't to speak about mystery of unamable, commonly referred as the God we must think zebras hiding as this illusion.

Originally Posted by Sorcer

(WakingNomad)
"Ghosts - Spirits of humans stuck on the astral plane, because they don't realize they have died"

These perhaps are what i have called 'Full Ephemeral Figures'. Makes me wonder then if i am sometimes privy to this 'astral plane' even though i'm not having an out of body experience but am wide awake... Except that the figures i have run across seemed to be aware of both their world and our own... so they did know they were dead. But the ephemeral deer running down the railroad tracks that i saw very much did believe that it was still alive and in danger of being mowed down (once again) by the very real train that was behind it.

I'm again puzzled with this connection between astral and ghosts. In my map of travelling worlds, ghosts are mainly tied to netherworlds, meaning subworld, underground and astral (astra : star) things are above us. In my shamanistic roadsigns based on very shared mythologies round the world. This offcourse isn't real?ly true. These are just old maps and systems. Old South American afterlifejoint Xibalba is mainly underworld but having also a gate in the sky in Orion Nebulae (movie: Fountain handles this mythos in modern way). So these things are not so limited. Ghosts I would consider as ethereal, ephemeral, shady or ectoblasmic constructs when they appear in waking. They might also be just afterimages and memories of people that have gone forward. Like; many are loops continuing traumas and sorrows they have not fully ascended. And also more deep

Originally Posted by Sorcer

(WakingNomad)
"Fictional Characters:
In a multiverse of infinite possibilities, everything is true. Therefore all fictional characters exist in one dimension or another. This means cartoon characters are real."

What would cause them to become cohesive? Do they mimic someone's figment of imagination? They are not self created.... So how could they be self-existent?

My favorite subject <3 This is about crossing dimensions and lunar sphere of imaganation. Power of creation and transitions between worlds. Mainly creatures that I communicate with are fragments of my imaganition. BUT it's not so narrowminded. They are ideas and creatures that have come to my dreams, mainly subconsiouss and not remembered dreams. They have entered this world trough me defining them. Some are made of pure unformed matter of dreaming and nothingness that only yerns to be composed into a poem, to get dreamed alive, made to a form, tied into myth, forged by logos and breathed alive.
Others were existent before and are from outside of my dimensions, but I can only know them through the forms they are familiar with me, in disguise and story that is partly made by me. I have known them for a long time and gotten into connection and relationship with them. They vary alot in their forms, personalities, homeworlds, characters and powers. Also in how they view me.
Every creative artist and dreamer communicates with them and creates them. So now I'm getting to know other storytellers by leaking me and my 'children' into their works as they do by approaching me, through transistive plains, like comics and music. I get to face their deamons and their loved ones, as they are to face mine. Even though I'm the world (as are you) I'm still learning this and taking my steps with this language of Merlin and Shakespeare. I'm also trying to project my influence into dualistic battle going in judeochristian world dancing with my tantric opposite who has many names and faces. Understand the mystery and live it through the time and history. I also try to interlink all the fictional worlds I'm familiar with. My favorite subjects in this art are bridges, portals, roads, island, spheres, paths, complete landscapes, curtains, labyrints, tunnels, boats and submarines (to travel the Seas of subconsiusness and imagination).

Originally Posted by Sorcer

(WakingNomad)
"Wormhole Wyrms-
Dragons which live in Wormholes and feed off the energy of the wormhole, and keep them free of astral parasites."

Do you mean blackholes? Or do you mean 'doorways' that only exist in dreams? What use in a door in the dreaming world?

I've made many of them or more likely given forms to ideas that have come to me. Not bragging. Dragons are great friends and majestetic beings. Blue one is compination of every river, ultimate and only river, pure flow and current. And very loving. Waiting to fly off this womb called earth.

Originally Posted by Sorcer

(WakingNomad)
"Semi-Sentient - Entities with a level of sentience like a mammal."

Also very interesting ... when you consider that some mammals (perhaps many or all for all i know) also dream. But i'm sure that you mean that they are completely incoorporeal.

I think that there is a system that prevents animals from being what they are (I'm not going as far as to metamorphosis or theryantropes). It's partly biological and pshychological theory, partly Descartes and some Buddhistic views. But if we train to dream in waking and trust the animals we begin to see wonders. They coming alive and sentient, Don't expect them to be like us, but they have potentiality. We're not the Crown of Creation as the Bible puts it. As long we wear that crown we can't enter to worlds of beings we think are under us and label together as animals, or plants, or minerals etc list is too long

Originally Posted by Sorcer

(WakingNomad)
"Non-Sentient - Entities with a level of sentience such as bacteria."

What would these type of entities look like? How would you even come to notice them?

Thanks for sharing, bro. Interesting stuff.

Insectoids and microworlds are truly alien. Not non-sentient but very different. I'm still having propblems to scope with them. It has affected to this world as self-fullfilling hypochondria, drugfueled paranoia about biologics, naked lunch, strange thoughts and zealot believes what bacters, foods, vitamins and chemicals do to us - to even automatic marceting, healthcare and lifesuportsystems held by this matrix of illusion. This microcosmos of insects, bacteria and cells is in aphophenic way tied into this whole macrososiocosmic system. Translation and communication between this system or our insides is just so hard. During waking hours people in low-consciouss state tend to communicate according to the system, representing societys broadcasting programs and acting like extras of movies or drones.

We will need a story and dream to pass through this passing state

This has been a broadcast of Dream Liberation Front
That's all folks
Srry if I find it impossible to limit dreaming oustide waking world

When I get sleep deprived enough I start seeing black shadow balls flying around. They're much smaller than golf balls though so its not what you're describing. Most likely just hallucinations. One real trippy visual distortion I used to get a lot, even when fully sober is I'd see these psychedelic vortex, swirl things opening and closing. They'd sometimes appear as if they are on a wall but I've seen them in mid air plenty of times. The explanation for this may be occipital discharges but I've pondered the idea that they are hyperdimensional in origin a few times. I've never seen any of the things described in this thread. I've never astral travelled, how do you slow your perception down to see these things? Meditation? I'm not the most patient man but I suppose thats fairly good motivation to learn how to meditate. All this sounds like fairly trippy shit.

Wow! Labyrint

I just highlighted, copied and pasted all that to a word doc so I can print it out and read it at my leasure.

(4,307words) Six pages at Tahoma size 8 but I want it at size 12 sooooooo, that’s 7 pages.

Labyrint, I was once on a Lucid Dreaming site (Saltcube) and His program (Nick Newport) automatically made paragraphs every third full-stop. Sometimes posts felt a bit disjointed but at least an interesting member (like you and Sorcer) could type their stuff up any way they wanted to and Nick Newports program would make sure it was easy to read.

I just want to see if the DreamViews program can handle a 4,307 word quote.

There goes

No

It can't

It removes all the quotes that you answered

{Hi DarkMatters, I am at an Internet Cafe and my phone just went "dingdong" so I checked and It was you posting here ahead of me, hahaha}

So I will put my 7 pages of smaller paragraphs in now, (I have put three star before and after the quotes in case the program takes out the highlight):


Just to bump this _important_ conversation up I'd like to add some of my personal experiences and views, this is going bit off-boundaries set by the original topic, but if this conversation opened up some of my personal rams And for MODs (to be Janeish) I'd like to say that if this post violates any rules by being strickt broadcast from my experiences or seeds any dangerous thoughts, I'd like to suggest that you move this to some art section as creative writing attempt in English and consider this as pure fiction, mythomania and tell-tale. Philosophy section might suit too:

This is going to be wall of text, so don't read this if you have problem with walls (any decent mtg player knows that walls can be put down easily with dynamic force. So please blast throught or deconstruct this brick by brick). I'm also using much and long brackets, even brackets inside brackets.. so if you want to understand surfacetext without subtle commentaries, ignore words inside brackets. I'm not holding you stupid, I don't even except you to read this, but this has become quite complicated text (not to mension complicated concepts)

Chapter One - something about paradigms, but turning into psychotic babling. skip this part if you wan't hear me on-topic, 'cause this chapter comes out in cryptic writings including brackets inside brackets and ethymologies of classical words

First I'd like to remind a thing about personal paradigms of reality. Every (let's say the rare and the alive to add emphasis to next word) dreamer has his personal take to reality and also deeper levels of it. Those levels that we study while dreaming (be this waking dreaming, sleeping dreaming or lucidD in either one). We get personal take and personal experiences of nature of dreaming (=reality). This is affected by everything that comes into our way.
Every mythology, every religious and scientificic theory, every piece of fiction or popculture, every dream that we remember and maybe even more influental:
every readily formed paradigm and paradigm founders experiences and the forms that they have given to their experiences (eg books by Carlos and experiences of Monroe) about dreaming (or reality) that touches us and gives us a portal to try upon. To make this more nutcase theory I'd like to say that maybe (just maybe) everything that comes to your waking life to affect your paradigm is product of you and your dreaming translated to your waking shelf.
OK I said it, but I don't really think that it's just like that but that thought might give some directions to the reality (or to my paradigm). I have proofs in my delusional shelf that not everyone is producting their keys waking to this world but (in my delusional shelf) I'm pretty sure that everything in my waking dream is just how bigger adventure translates to waking shelf. This theory can't be fully understood without broken mirror (or revealing trip to the deeps of ones 'own' psyche) but I'm quite good expressing this with time and with my native tonlanguege and absolutely willing to talk to any psychiarist who wants to examine my view and sanity. To them I say: please, first reserve time in my schelude. I don't wan'ä't any whitecoats coming to pick me up now while I'm on slight sleep deprivation and also drunken. OK THNK U BAI. (not that I really am that paranoid but I'd like to keep this style up in my babling).

I live in diversing realities fully accepting not just multidimensionality and different versions of me in this time line but also different futures and what is not commonly thought: also that the past is ever changing. So (if u like it so: in my delusional state) it's sometimes hard to adjust in situations where something changes in past. In those succesfull hacks (matrix associations are so grey and not revealing the whole spectrum) I'm left with memories of past that no-one shares, or remembers. Like in PKDs novels. For your peas of mind: maybe I'm just setting a story and hoping it to become true 'cause I believe that fiction and dreaming recuired for fiction creates this factual world (to mess more with the time line: not just to-bees but also by-gones). Maybe these both are true, maybe I've been experiencing this (changing past) for quite a while and maybe I also know that facts, histories, personal-life-dramas come from the fiction rather than vice versa.

Maybe we're all in a dream. In different dreams (thou some are shared) hacking our way with words to share dreams in so-called waking life. Maybe world is more bigger and more mysterious and waking life is all that is translated from larger and more psychedelic (=soul revealing; according to the original ethymology of word) world into this narrow reality that we're all the way making more wide as we work. ---* small commersial break here: we're having big storm here at the moment, it's been building up up through the Night. So far it has been only beautifull like an old friend. I just went for a smoke (legal cigarettes) and saw one brave bird daring the wind. First thought it was a hawk but I was hoping too rare. Think it was pigeon (=dove). And for lulz: tabloids yesterday really suggested us to wear helmets today FGS helmets protecting from the storm - seriosly, what are they on. And back to the broadcast*--- Maybe I, like everyone here produces his/hers/insert:transpersonalpronoun:here own realities. Maybe just one of us here is real and we're everyone trying to hack into hers stasis. Maybe it's my reality (nc from the radio: that was when I rule the world) maybe it's yours. Maybe your neighbours and friends and every bypasser is somekind of DC like in the Trueman Show. Maybe it's not so simple. Maybe we're all breaking in, revealing our souls into this world called 'reality'. Remembering ourshelfs in somekind of anamnesia. I'm not professional LDremer nor have a good recal all the time. But I'm in par with this waking dream I'm living and I know personally many of mine imagitionborn friends that are part of older themes.

(PS [warning this my BS as my personal Belief System] [allthought this is not post scriptum 'cause I'm going to continue, after this]. I made this new person [person = mask = theatrical mask = ethymology of this word is per:through, sona:voice] Labyrint here in hope of you hacking into my psychotic solipsist diversed [multidimensional] story, now after recovering form anamnesia I'm undoing myself at the moment myself, but also connecting it to your stories and dreams. Btw it's quite phun that story means two things in english)

If you really wan't to live in the Now, you shouldn't block memories of past 'cause if you have them, they're in the Now (just look all things you have stored from your past and how they speak to you. Eg why you have that one unfinished schoolhomework at your place that is from years past). And be carefull how you spin the web of future: what you fear, what you expect and what you dream in your Imagi/e.nation. If you take this (was going to say seriosly, but some thinks should be banished with laughter) thing as real, you'll find the blocks and get to examine the mystery of ones own consiousness creating everything versus everybody (or freaking pantheistic everything) being equal subjectives versus somekind of collectively made Mechanism ruling boundaries of waking world.
You're in fact living in one hypermoment where time is superimposed.
We're all living in this one hypermoment, whole time located in one tiny dot: every past, every future, every piece of fiction, every paraller timeline and universe. If you want to go to the Moment and think time as an illusion (but also locking mechanism of world, that should be lockpicked) U should accept, not only future full of possibilities, but also that the past is ever changing. In this ultime superposition of hypermoment you start to learn shards of your true being. It is slowly (or always in it's right tempo) opening learning experience. First mystery to examine is (I'm saying this as advice coming from loving mother) that of the love, because in the swamps deep denied sides of the Whole the lessons of love will come to carry you and remind you of why you took this ride (as mister Hicks put it) and who you are. And let me say the only one thing that is certain: I love you all :blush:

Chapter Two - this is *in topic*
***
Originally Posted by Sorcer
debrajane,

so, if i'm getting this right .... an 'Oversoul' is like a being greater than ourselves... and we are like it's finger-puppets... in that it has a mask or a face that it is wearing on each finger ? And so we would share some deeper connection with certain persons because we are manifestations of a larger consciousness ? does this gentleman predict or posit just how many persons may share in this type of connection under a single Oversoul ?
***
(Radio is playing something about dark side of the moon: "as long as you be my friend in the end" and "I ain't your cryptonite". I'm getting some Nomad vibes and am smiling). So anyone familiar with Morrisons theory of more multidimensionial creature coming into this 4 dimensional (4th is time, others is space) world and how it would appear here? He uses (with name Grant Morrison who is mainly a comixworker and a xaos macigian) 2d example of this when he puts his (3d) hand through imaginary 2d surface, all his fingers make subjective dots and beings all though there is only one hand. This is important when you thing of any 2d media like comics.

I've resently found that now there is a book written in time 1884 called Flatland: A Romance of Many Dimensions that studies this phenomenion of entering to a dimmension sharing different kind of numeric frameworks.
Dreams just seem to be somewhat outside the definated dimensional measures. They might be same as the big Xaos surrounding ordered world and existing inside the order waiting to be releashed. To use a different meta.phore: they might same as the big PSycheDelic (again: it's soul revealing) reality surrounding the diversed and subjective reality and existing inside the the diversed and subjective reality waiting to be releashed. Then there is this question about substance of soul and spirit.

I can talk about them because I have Now some gnostic touch that allows me to define them and it's not that I have made theories for a long time, but Now I'm mainly experiencing real?ity as I'm writing while riding my intuition (won't allow anyone to box this under automatic writing or chanelling 'cause this is not coming from outside - this room, traffic outside, morning radio-program and nature - oh the Wild - are all mirrors of me right now).

Spirit is different from consiousness outside this 4d waking world. They are not in conflict with each other, they just have different qualities, resonations and spheres (last one goes to all who are familiar with games called Mage: the Acension or Mage: the Awakening). Spirit is and can be best descriped by making stories and personifying everything.
It comes true when you get into relationship with personified story that lives be itself and communicates with you. It also has something to do with breathing according to my native ton/language. From this I get to language. At least here (language as space to be) some moments, places or musics have a Spirit. Even people who debunk the existence of thing like spirit, use this word in acute sense. Same goes with soul. People who don't believe in it use it acutely.

Listen consiuosly how people use these words, to unlock them. Poets are best 'cause they really have a Ways with words. Allthough some soul-music might be bit cheesy (syrupish it what we use here) it's not called soul by accident. You can also find metal music that is soulfull : get's you into connection with your soul.

In the Invisibles there was telephatic bubble (that wasn't a speech bubble, cause the communication in that frame was not vocal) that opened some of my locks. It was like this: "soul is not inside you, you're inside your soul".

In the field of consiousness and in there might be just one being that is inside this 4d realm as all us subjective beings here (not only those that we consider consiousness. Maybe, let's say, even colors are consiouss). Then there might be subcreatures that are like 'oversouls':
in some surreal level they are fully aware of every finger they have in fields of time and space, but are not the whole. Now towards the spirit. In the field of spirit there might be grandmother and grandfather spirits that embody and represent whole species of animals and plants etc.
Let's add cars to the list to get deeper into dreamlogic. There are also smaller, more local and more subjective spirits of these families. This is just my interepation of some shamanistic views. Dreaming is still the key to mystery, these are just attemps to commune with logos to translate language of waking reality. Maybe in world of Spirit species want to crossbreed together in dreaming. They yern to cross the treshold of genetic possibilities and make new impossible forms and demispecies with their surroundings. Learn forms, habits and colors from their loved ones and start cracking their genetic systems even in molecular level.
This, in my experience, is dream of nature. Think of this: zepratrains and postboxsquirrels, sounds like I dream, right? If we allow the world to dream and change, then it might (just might, if we accept that it has the Might) be so that we awake to subtly changed reality every morning. I'm speaking about the paperthin barrier between dreaming and waking world. And the barriers we face by following the path to dreamed Tomorrow. Every barrier is a bridge and bridge a barrier.
***
Originally Posted by debrajane
And actually, really there is no functional difference between these two ways of drawing it, either through the back into the centre of the chest into the heart area versus down through the top of the head. And I'll talk about why there is no difference, no functional difference when we cover energy centers.
***
This sounds like a system to me. Hearth is commonly interconnected with soul, feeling and love and top of the head is interconnected with consiousness, love and soul. These are areas of body system that are both long linked to love and soul. There is no part in us that is not connected to them, but in long held systems those are links that are easy to tap to those consepts that are somehow divided from us. Not always, not to everyone but this seemed to be too common.
***
Originally Posted by Sorcer
(WakingNomad)
"Nightstalkers - A Nighstalker is a combination of a dream demon and a dreamer."

So a human being is in league with an unpleasant sort of entity and they ... do what exactly?
***
We're all tied to everything, our darkness is deep and denied mystery. Nightstalkers as Nomad names them are in my understanding product of our attempt to face those sides, heal them and heal collective (religious and mythology-tied in many sense real) traumas. Part us and dem. One healing key is to acknowlidge that they are part of us. Nomad can correct me if I'm wrong.
***
Originally Posted by Sorcer
(WakingNomad)
"Dream Demons - Dream Demons feed off of negative energy. They live primarily on the dream plane, and invade dreams to make people have nightmares."

Very interesting, this would also remind me of Floating faces feeding off of energy except that in this case they are actually able to strongly affect a person to elicit the craved for negative emotional energy.
***
This is not unfamiliar to me. I think them as fingerprints of nightstalkers as I view them.
***
Originally Posted by Sorcer
(WakingNomad)
"Astral Demons - Astral Demons also feed off negativity on the Astral Plane, and make people have nightmares by surrounding them with cold, fear energy as they sleep."

I'll have to do some reading i guess... unless you would care to propose a brief description of how the world of dreams differs from the astral plane ?
***
Never projected myself so that I have any memory of it. But I have some insight about astral dreams and trying to hack barriers between astral and dreaming (and also and mainly barrier between waking world, where I'm more skilled)
***
Originally Posted by Sorcer
(WakingNomad)
(WakingNomad)

"Angels - Angels are guardian spirits which battle demons and heal people."

I remember back 10 years or so ago when i still had a problem with my drug of choice... i could hear very clear voices in my mind saying, "don't do this to yourself... for the sake of humanity..." so, i guess i do believe in guardian angels - though most entities just seem to bask in your well being (rather than your misery) if that is their particular predilection
***
I have love/hate, war/peace relationship with judeochristian angels. Mainly 'cause some modern views deny their darker sides. Outside the dualistic illusion and war between heaven and hell they are complite and whole beings of love and blessing
***
Originally Posted by Sorcer
(WakingNomad)
(WakingNomad)

"Dream Warriors - Dreamers who have learned how to battle in dreams."

I think this is my favorite one What a happy possibility. Spiritual warriors doing battle for the good of the world on an entirely different battle ground.
***
I'm a warrior but my main weapons are symphatic connetions towards anything, connection with my soul and logos and relationship with my sister/lover/mother Sophia. I also tend to make battlefields cause I'm not dull violent-games-are-bad-for-yor-spiritual-being sort of dude. I just feel that if you go into consiuoss battle scene (it's esthetic and beautifull as it best, and death is a lie) you should add some love, mercy and logos to every strike.
***
Originally Posted by Sorcer
(WakingNomad)
"Gods - Extremely powerful entities living primarily on the dream plane."

Perhaps this is what i would call an "Overt Presence" - thing which is so far removed from our ordinary perception and understanding that we can only begin to sense that they are much more powerful than ourselves. If that's the case, the "God" that i met was particularly friendly.
***
I must dissagree with Nomad in this. Gods are present everywhere. You might need some evoking, invoking, good storytelling, imagening and waking world dreaming to see their presence. They only are gods with small letters, and they know that I'm not insulting them. Just speaking with the spirit of truth. They are stories, archetypes, loas, personalities, masks (that wear us and masks that we can wear) and everchanging dudes and dudettes. If we wan't to speak about mystery of unamable, commonly referred as the God we must think zebras hiding as this illusion.
***
Originally Posted by Sorcer
(WakingNomad)
"Ghosts - Spirits of humans stuck on the astral plane, because they don't realize they have died"

These perhaps are what i have called 'Full Ephemeral Figures'. Makes me wonder then if i am sometimes privy to this 'astral plane' even though i'm not having an out of body experience but am wide awake... Except that the figures i have run across seemed to be aware of both their world and our own... so they did know they were dead. But the ephemeral deer running down the railroad tracks that i saw very much did believe that it was still alive and in danger of being mowed down (once again) by the very real train that was behind it.
***
I'm again puzzled with this connection between astral and ghosts. In my map of travelling worlds, ghosts are mainly tied to netherworlds, meaning subworld, underground and astral (astra : star) things are above us. In my shamanistic roadsigns based on very shared mythologies round the world. This offcourse isn't real?ly true.
These are just old maps and systems. Old South American afterlifejoint Xibalba is mainly underworld but having also a gate in the sky in Orion Nebulae (movie: Fountain handles this mythos in modern way). So these things are not so limited.
Ghosts I would consider as ethereal, ephemeral, shady or ectoblasmic constructs when they appear in waking. They might also be just afterimages and memories of people that have gone forward. Like; many are loops continuing traumas and sorrows they have not fully ascended. And also more deep
***
Originally Posted by Sorcer
(WakingNomad)
"Fictional Characters:
In a multiverse of infinite possibilities, everything is true. Therefore all fictional characters exist in one dimension or another. This means cartoon characters are real."

What would cause them to become cohesive? Do they mimic someone's figment of imagination? They are not self created.... So how could they be self-existent?
***
My favorite subject <3 This is about crossing dimensions and lunar sphere of imaganation. Power of creation and transitions between worlds. Mainly creatures that I communicate with are fragments of my imaganition. BUT it's not so narrowminded. They are ideas and creatures that have come to my dreams, mainly subconsiouss and not remembered dreams.
They have entered this world trough me defining them. Some are made of pure unformed matter of dreaming and nothingness that only yerns to be composed into a poem, to get dreamed alive, made to a form, tied into myth, forged by logos and breathed alive.

Others were existent before and are from outside of my dimensions, but I can only know them through the forms they are familiar with me, in disguise and story that is partly made by me. I have known them for a long time and gotten into connection and relationship with them. They vary alot in their forms, personalities, homeworlds, characters and powers. Also in how they view me.

Every creative artist and dreamer communicates with them and creates them. So now I'm getting to know other storytellers by leaking me and my 'children' into their works as they do by approaching me, through transistive plains, like comics and music. I get to face their deamons and their loved ones, as they are to face mine. Even though I'm the world (as are you) I'm still learning this and taking my steps with this language of Merlin and Shakespeare.
I'm also trying to project my influence into dualistic battle going in judeochristian world dancing with my tantric opposite who has many names and faces. Understand the mystery and live it through the time and history. I also try to interlink all the fictional worlds I'm familiar with. My favorite subjects in this art are bridges, portals, roads, island, spheres, paths, complete landscapes, curtains, labyrints, tunnels, boats and submarines (to travel the Seas of subconsiusness and imagination).
***
Originally Posted by Sorcer
(WakingNomad)
"Wormhole Wyrms-
Dragons which live in Wormholes and feed off the energy of the wormhole, and keep them free of astral parasites."

Do you mean blackholes? Or do you mean 'doorways' that only exist in dreams? What use in a door in the dreaming world?
***
I've made many of them or more likely given forms to ideas that have come to me. Not bragging. Dragons are great friends and majestetic beings. Blue one is compination of every river, ultimate and only river, pure flow and current. And very loving. Waiting to fly off this womb called earth.
***
Originally Posted by Sorcer
(WakingNomad)
"Semi-Sentient - Entities with a level of sentience like a mammal."

Also very interesting ... when you consider that some mammals (perhaps many or all for all i know) also dream. But i'm sure that you mean that they are completely incoorporeal.
***
I think that there is a system that prevents animals from being what they are (I'm not going as far as to metamorphosis or theryantropes). It's partly biological and pshychological theory, partly Descartes and some Buddhistic views. But if we train to dream in waking and trust the animals we begin to see wonders.
They coming alive and sentient, Don't expect them to be like us, but they have potentiality. We're not the Crown of Creation as the Bible puts it. As long we wear that crown we can't enter to worlds of beings we think are under us and label together as animals, or plants, or minerals etc list is too long
***
Originally Posted by Sorcer
(WakingNomad)
"Non-Sentient - Entities with a level of sentience such as bacteria."

What would these type of entities look like? How would you even come to notice them?

Thanks for sharing, bro. Interesting stuff.
***
Insectoids and microworlds are truly alien. Not non-sentient but very different. I'm still having propblems to scope with them. It has affected to this world as self-fullfilling hypochondria, drugfueled paranoia about biologics, naked lunch, strange thoughts and zealot believes what bacters, foods, vitamins and chemicals do to us - to even automatic marceting, healthcare and lifesuportsystems held by this matrix of illusion.

This microcosmos of insects, bacteria and cells is in aphophenic way tied into this whole macrososiocosmic system. Translation and communication between this system or our insides is just so hard. During waking hours people in low-consciouss state tend to communicate according to the system, representing societys broadcasting programs and acting like extras of movies or drones.

We will need a story and dream to pass through this passing state

This has been a broadcast of Dream Liberation Front
That's all folks

Srry if I find it impossible to limit dreaming oustide waking world
Last edited by labyrint; Yesterday at 11:43 PM.
(4,307words)

Originally Posted by CrimpJiggler

...They're much smaller than golf balls though so its not what you're describing. Most likely just hallucinations. (...) I've never astral travelled, how do you slow your perception down to see these things? Meditation? I'm not the most patient man but I suppose thats fairly good motivation to learn how to meditate. All this sounds like fairly trippy shit.

As far as your not being sure if they were just hallucinations ... IMO that's the kind of attitude it helps to have. When you are seeing things that might make you questions your sanity it's important to remember that schizophrenic people are locked up simply because they can't keep their secret to themselves... like the rest of us do. So there's really no reason to lose one's marbles when facing the unknown. Just don't believe everything that you see - and also be open to the possibility that what you are seeing or experiencing is real. You could just as well say, 'how do you speed up your perception enough to see them?' If you were try to shoot things a bit scientific then you might say that mediations and controlled dreaming practices (i believe) have been shown to increase the activity of the LGN or visual processing center in the brain... which is to say that you are taking in more information than you normally would. Part of the difficulty is speaking about 'energetic beings' is that in my experience you can often see the same being doing the same things whether or not your eyes are open or closed. Meaning, you aren't actually seeing these things with your physical eyes.


As far as... " how do you slow your perception down to see these things? Meditation?" goes...

There is another thread titled, "Techniques for LUCID DREAMING - Preparing Oneself for the Endeavor" that tries to give some exercises which would increase the likelihood of your seeing an incoorporeal energetic being. I wish i could just give you a simple explanation... but seeing these entities is like the task of lucid dreaming itself... sometimes the most you can really do is tell someone that it -is- possible. But each man walks his own path, so to speak. So sometimes it is enough just to know that it is possible.

(Thanks for sharing Labyrint ... i just wanted to hi-light my favorite parts... whether or not english is your primary language - I'm sure you are a poet in any language you chose to speak. Thanks for sharing.)

"hacking our way with words to share dreams in so-called waking life

Listen consiuosly how people use these words, to unlock them. Poets are best 'cause they really have a Ways with words.

Maybe in world of Spirit species want to crossbreed together in dreaming. They yern to cross the treshold of genetic possibilities and make new impossible forms and demispecies with their surroundings. Learn forms, habits and colors from their loved ones and start cracking their genetic systems even in molecular level. This, in my experience, is dream of nature.

If we allow the world to dream and change, then it might (just might, if we accept that it has the Might) be so that we awake to subtly changed reality every morning. I'm speaking about the paperthin barrier between dreaming and waking world. And the barriers we face by following the path to dreamed Tomorrow. Every barrier is a bridge and bridge a barrier.

I also tend to make battlefields cause I'm not dull violent-games-are-bad-for-yor-spiritual-being sort of dude. I just feel that if you go into consiuoss battle scene (it's esthetic and beautifull as it best, and death is a lie) you should add some love, mercy and logos to every strike.

You might need some evoking, invoking, good storytelling, imagening and waking world dreaming to see their presence. They only are gods with small letters, and they know that I'm not insulting them.

They are stories, archetypes, loas, personalities, masks (that wear us and masks that we can wear)

Some are made of pure unformed matter of dreaming and nothingness that only yerns to be composed into a poem, to get dreamed alive, made to a form, tied into myth, forged by logos and breathed alive.

Others were existent before and are from outside of my dimensions, but I can only know them through the forms they are familiar with me, in disguise and story that is partly made by me.

They vary alot in their forms, personalities, homeworlds, characters and powers. Also in how they view me.


Every creative artist and dreamer communicates with them and creates them. So now I'm getting to know other storytellers by leaking me and my 'children' into their works as they do by approaching me, through transistive plains, like comics and music. I get to face their deamons and their loved ones, as they are to face mine. Even though I'm the world (as are you) I'm still learning this and taking my steps with this language of Merlin and Shakespeare. I'm also trying to project my influence into dualistic battle going in judeochristian world dancing with my tantric opposite who has many names and faces. Understand the mystery and live it through the time and history. I also try to interlink all the fictional worlds I'm familiar with. My favorite subjects in this art are bridges, portals, roads, island, spheres, paths, complete landscapes, curtains, labyrints, tunnels, boats and submarines (to travel the Seas of subconsiusness and imagination).

Waiting to fly off this womb called earth.

We're not the Crown of Creation as the Bible puts it. As long we wear that crown we can't enter to worlds of beings we think are under us and label together as animals, or plants, or minerals etc list is too long

This microcosmos of insects, bacteria and cells is in aphophenic way tied into this whole macrososiocosmic system. Translation and communication between this system or our insides is just so hard. During waking hours people in low-consciouss state tend to communicate according to the system, representing societys broadcasting programs and acting like extras of movies or drones."

(I read some very interesting stuff the other day reguarding bacteria and cells, etc....

- The average person carries 2 1/2 pounds of microorganisms inside their body and on its surface.

- Many of our cells, like muscle cells are huge compared to the cell size of some of the microbial life we support... SO ... it turns out that 9 out of 10 cells in our body aren't human ! They are there own organism and have their own DNA.

- 99.9 percent of the genetic information that we carry ISN'T human. If each organism had its own stack of papers filled with the AGCP or whatever of the laddered DNA rungs are made out of... human DNA is only .1 percent of the diversity that each of us carries around. We are our own worlds and when two people touch its like two separate planets colliding and exchanging inhabitants.

- These organisms serves as our "Second Immune System" they send messages to our real immune system and also respond to the messages that our bodies are sending out. It's "there world" too... and they try to maintain the status quo!)

i've been visited by inorganic beings twice .and the third time i was able to get out of my lucid dreaming state before it progressed . What gets my goat is this happened much before i read the art of dreaming and i converted these dreams in my head into some childish terror , now perhaps i would react differently but this has never happened to me again in that capacity . The first dream was of me sitting in my backyard at night with my books out and looking up to see two tall "candle like" figures (to quote castaneda ) well in my dream i was thinking about my chances of getting in my house safely, i ran inside my house and shut the door . and nothing happened .
The next dream was at my grandmothers house which is in the hills and quite beautiful but at night it used to creep me out and i always used to feel like theres something around ,it started out with a couple at an aquatic park near a pool and the husband getting dragged in by a shark or something at which point it changed and i was in the room i was sleeping in and i felt like i was vibrating or being shocked with energy i cannot accurately recall what it felt like (memory reconstruction aside !)and also a sensation of sinking in addition to very surely knowing/seeing ? something in the corner of that room that was generating the violent energy , at which point i started chanting in my dream state a chant (which works in mundane times and bloody scary ones)my mum taught me and slowly it eased of . this exact dream and sensation started to happen again after a month but i got out of that one pretty easily .
Though in hindsight i wish i had exercised this ability more .perhaps .is it wise to initiate these particular forays or should i concentrate on getting the lucid bit sorted out because for it happens very randomly ...some dreams im lucid and most just contain imagery and in a few i can feel my guardian .

Interesting thoughts, I've tried many times to 'raise my frequency' but to no avail.. Sorry if that has been dicussed amid these posts, Im subscribing so as to read it all when I get in from work.

First of all, Wow! Great job on the opening post. You covered everything.

I'd just like to add that with the Shapeshifters, I don't think shape shifting is an ability they possess. I think the shifting is something we're doing, a side effect of trying to perceive something so alien to us. I don't know if they have any control over it other than what aspects they choose to embody.

As for the Distinguished Presences, when they make themselves known in homes, they are almost always in the top corner of the room. I'm thinking the geometry of the corner, 3 lines intersecting on one point somehow make it easier to manifest there. If I were dumb enough to try to summon one (or attempt to become aware of one), I'd use a corner structure as my focal point. In fact if you're nuts enough to try and meet one of these things, here's what I'd do. Cut the corner off a cardboard box, place the corner so you can see inside it, dim the lights, and meditate on the point where the lines intersect. Just try to keep your attention focused and your inner thoughts at bay. If you can get a clean meditation going it should work. And it won't be cool at all!

Originally Posted by Sorcer

i have never experienced some of the things that he talks about like 'luminous eggs' ... and "seeing" the luminous fibers of the world...

I hear the luminous fibers described in DMT trip repords often enough. I've actually seen the luminous eggs myself, and it was totally not cool. You see I was in the middle of an outdoor music festival at the time surrounded by thousands of people when it happened and I wasn't expecting it in the least. To suddenly find myself surrounded by a herd of luminous eggs was unnerving to say the least. I panicked and lost it, and was really too freaked out to study much of what I saw. I didn't know how to maneuver the crowd because I wasn't sure how the egg shape represented the bodies.

The "Black Spots" type kinda reminds me of the shadow-like round "floaties" you get in your vision when you move your eyes. They follow your eye-movement though. Are those entities kinda like that? But with their own intelligence?

I'm constantly aware of entities being around me (not necessarily what they are, though, just that they *are* there), and when you mentioned the first kind, I saw a young man, somewhere roughly between 23 and 28, in nonchalant jeans-and-tee leaning against a wall with my spirit eye (third eye, or whatever you want to call it).

If and when I do see them, I tend to give them names to connect to them. This one I call Johnny, because his posture reminds me of "Johnny the Homicidal Maniac" (main character in the comic by Johnen Vasquez, also known from creating Invader Zim). ..just the posture, not the characteristics, lol. He's quite goodlooking, too. I think he's linked to this building (where I work), as I don't see/feel him anywhere else.

Way way way too much for me to read here tonight. Must... Finish... The first page... Of this section... I mean after all it's 4:30 AM right now. Need rest for an OBE attempt tomorrow. Anyhow I came in here regarding inorganic beings.

This is directed to the OP... During one of my OBE attempts I saw something 2-3 feet wide, 4-5 feet tall, shaped somewhat like a jukebox but narrower. I may have mentioned this experience in one of my earlier threads. Anyhow it was a strange turquoise green color, dull. It had round nobs in a single row under its top. It was just sitting there. Later I incubated a dream with the intention of seeing it again. Same color on a snake (I think it was a snake) that moved off leaving a trail. It and the trail glowed a vivid version of the same color of the jukebox thing. My friend Josh says it was a person appearing to me that way. I would like your thoughts.
- DreamBliss

Originally Posted by mehetaab

i've been visited by inorganic beings twice .and the third time i was able to get out of my lucid dreaming state before it progressed . What gets my goat is this happened much before i read the art of dreaming and i converted these dreams in my head into some childish terror , now perhaps i would react differently but this has never happened to me again in that capacity (...) Though in hindsight i wish i had exercised this ability more .perhaps .is it wise to initiate these particular forays or should i concentrate on getting the lucid bit sorted out because for it happens very randomly ...some dreams im lucid and most just contain imagery and in a few i can feel my guardian .

It's a tough question. We are capable of learning from everything that we come across. And perhaps there are lessons for you to learn that will come from an ephemeral entity. I'm not sure there is any point in trying to seek out this type of interaction. But, as you said, there is certainly reason to be considerate with regard to how one will react or choose to behave when these things do come to pass. Just as lucid dreaming can be invoked with intent ... intent can also allow you the freedom of choice in how you will handle this type of enounter if or when it occurs again. The aborigines teach their children from an early age that what they do in the world of dreams is just as imporant (if not more important) than what they do in the waking world. They are taught to turn toward and face their fears

Originally Posted by The Cusp

... If I were dumb enough to try to summon one (or attempt to become aware of one), I'd use a corner structure as my focal point. In fact if you're nuts enough to try and meet one of these things, here's what I'd do. Cut the corner off a cardboard box, place the corner so you can see inside it, dim the lights, and meditate on the point where the lines intersect. Just try to keep your attention focused and your inner thoughts at bay. If you can get a clean meditation going it should work. And it won't be cool at all!

Heheh. Okay, here's another possible thing to try if anyone is feeling like "pulling out the ouija board" ...

I would recommend lighting a candle down the hall on the opposite end of the house as the bathroom. Then go into the bathroom and look at yourself in the mirror - such that your reflection and your eyes are just barely visible. Look at yourself and look over your shoulder. Allow your consciousness to shift as much as possible toward a dreaming state. Allow yourself to dream with your eyes open. (Whoever said you had to be asleep to dream, anyways?) Even with your eyes open you can see the bits and peices that evolve into dreams and dream fragments. The trick i guess is determining what is self-created ... and what seems to be an energetic influence from outside your self. Whose afraid of the dark ? I am. I thought i was fearless. Doing this enabled me to remember that we -choose- not to see many things. We intentionally shut-off a part of our selves. A part that is still a child in a mysterious world filled with mysterious things. Just remember, when the time comes, that there is a place inside each of us ... that is beyond fear.

Originally Posted by DreamBliss

... Anyhow I came in here regarding inorganic beings.

This is directed to the OP... During one of my OBE attempts I saw something 2-3 feet wide, 4-5 feet tall, shaped somewhat like a jukebox but narrower. I may have mentioned this experience in one of my earlier threads. Anyhow it was a strange turquoise green color, dull. It had round nobs in a single row under its top. It was just sitting there. Later I incubated a dream with the intention of seeing it again. Same color on a snake (I think it was a snake) that moved off leaving a trail. It and the trail glowed a vivid version of the same color of the jukebox thing. My friend Josh says it was a person appearing to me that way. I would like your thoughts.
- DreamBliss

I believe that most dreams are just junk ... for most dreamers. But it has been said that once a person learns how to 'set-up' and 'do' Dreaming (with a capital 'D' - as in Lucid Dreaming) ... then any dream which can be remembered takes on a greater reality, a greater significance. That said, i also believe that most intelligent persons such as yourself are best suited to 'interpreting' your own dream. You don't seem to personify the entity you encountered in any way, and your friend was not there... so I would stick to your own gut feeling that it was "other than human". I have only limited experience to go by .. but the predominant portion of the dream, the thing of greatest importance, seems to be that it was a particular color. I don't put much stock in 'color-based entities' ... which is to say that i don't think they are good for much. I don't think they have anything to teach or to show you. I think that they only want to occuppy both you and your energy as much as possible. To feed on your energy, more or less, while offering nothing in return. Hence, in the first dream it just sat there and did nothing. And in the second dream i would say that it was inviting you to follow it, perhaps to it's world. Where it would further waste your time.

I believe that there is great freedom to be found by maintaining a degree of consciousness while on other 'planes of existence' ... but that, for the most part, the entities that you will find there don't necessarily have your best interests at heart. So i would suggest following your own heart into the Unknown, rather than a 'green snake'.

Regards, Sorcer

Originally Posted by Sorcer

I'm uncomfortable with something like the 'white light of divine protection' for a few different reasons. First, of all the entities that i have come across, i have never encountered 'God' or 'the Devil'. For something to be divine would mean that you have favor with some higher power. I'm sure their are a multitude of being in the universe more intelligent and powerful than my little monkey self... but are any of them truly 'God-like'... and would they care about your personal struggles if they were?

White and light are just different shades of grey. Their is a darkness in each person and everything in the physical world has its shadow. Now, if by surrounding youself with a divine white light you are simultaneously becoming more centered within yourself, more confident and at ease, and finding greater clarity of purpose... then surround away.

Thanks for this post. I believe it makes an important distinction. Anytime I read about protecting oneself during astral projection or just in general, 90% of the advice boils down to "visualize white light." These authors almost always fail to instruct the person in energywork. If all you do is pretend to see white light around you, with no actual energy or understanding of what you're supposed to be doing...it's practically worthless as a method of protection or shielding. It would be nice to see methods of defense and protection other than visualizing white light.

Personally, I advise people to call for help when in trouble and defend themselves the best they can in the meantime. It's important to call on a being who 1. actually exists; and 2. that you have had a prior relationship to. For example, my relationship with a god I used to believe in was pretty one-sided, and therefore when I prayed for help I got nothing. But when I call out to the beings I have a real relationship with, they will always come to my aid.