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    View Poll Results: Would you like to have our discussions in E-prime?

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    1. #1
      Peaceful Dreamer kenietz's Avatar
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      Question Suggestion: discussions in E-prime

      Hi,
      i would like to make a suggestion: to write our posts in E-prime.
      (Please read the post before discarding it as not connected to this forum. Also please give a couple of minutes to read the link to Wiki below. I think a connection exists, considering the topics discussed on Beyond Dreaming)

      Anyway, it seems a good idea to give short intro to E-prime. From Wiki:

      "E-Prime (short for English-Prime, sometimes denoted E′) is a version of the English language that excludes all forms of the verb to be. E-Prime does not allow conjugations of to be (am, are, is, was, were, be, been, being), archaic forms (e.g. art, wast, wert), or contractions ('s, 'm, 're). The E-Prime versions communicate the speaker's experience rather than judgment, making it harder for the writer or reader to confuse opinion with fact."

      One can use these words though:

      * become;
      * has; have; having; had (I've; you've)
      * do; does; doing; did
      * can; could
      * will; would (they'd)
      * shall; should
      * ought
      * may; might; must
      * remain
      * equal

      For a better intro follow the link to Wiki:
      E-Prime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

      Why i, you may ask, have to hassle to write in such a weird way? Well, one answer taken from Wiki :

      " “To be” prevents us from experiencing a shared reality; something we need in order to communicate in a sane way. If someone sees something completely different than another, our language prevents us from acknowledging the other's point of view by limiting our perception to fixed states. For example, if I say “Star Wars is a shitty movie,” and my friend says, “Star Wars is not a shitty movie!” We have no shared reality, for in our language, truth lies in only one of our statements and we can forever argue these truths until one of us writes a book and has more authority than the other. If on the other hand I say, “I hated Star Wars,” I state my opinion as observed through my own senses. I state a more accurate reality by not claiming that Star Wars “is” anything, as it could “be” anything to anyone."

      Now then, the idea for that suggestion came to me while reading all these lengthy threads about Shared Dreaming for example. Another type of posts exist as well where people state what they think and try to convince us in the truthfulness/uniqueness of their experience. But the SD threads hold the first place in awesomeness As the quotation from above states "to be" creates a problem in communication and we can see that in all these numerous threads. Furthermore if according to the above excerpt, 'to be' prevents us from experience shared reality, what about the Shared Dream reality? As some very patient members of the forum many times stated - many realities exist. Some just cant be easily proven to the people who really want them to be proven to them. So when we share our dream reality experiences we should learn to respect and learn from every possible source(here meaning post) and not just fight over something we can not solve.

      So i think in the light of the above said E-prime could help the users in conducting better and more senseful communication without needless fights. It could create a more fruitful environment for all, where all personal experiences become valid and true and people could actually start learning.

      I would like to say that i as well fall into the category of people who create mess and fight over things we should not.

      Lastly, I want to apologize to everyone who felt insulted with this post or some of my previous ones.


      Please, leave your comments and thoughts about that idea! I would especially like to see what the moderators think about it.

      Be happy!

      PS: By the way, in this post i have tried to avoid the verb 'to be'. But as my first attempt in e-prime it may still contain 'errors' Excuse me for that. I would like to recommend the book by R. A. Wilson: 'Quantum psychology'. Written in E-prime and discusses it as well but it contains other very interesting and useful info about our perception and reality.
      Last edited by kenietz; 09-14-2011 at 10:21 AM.
      One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

    2. #2
      another place another tim labyrint's Avatar
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      I can't partisipate. For a while I've tried to get e-prime to help my communication and it has helped. By not using it fundamentaly. So I was excited by topic. But I'm just getting the skill to express myshelf (what is it?) in English and I spent a quite an amount of time to figure out the first sentence. But I failed, those don't use words were excential for my skill of expression at this point. I can't talk English in E-Prime. Even thou I'm sure that I can product the first sentence it would take too much time and be too clumsy. So I don't partisipate any further, but I engourage in this. I see all my grammatic errors here 'cause I think 78% (pulled out of the hat) in E-prime.

      Cause I promised not to write another post, I'll edit this:
      in E-Prime U have to find your way around the essential and lightly used words that cause disarguements and to help you better form your experience. Thing is that I haven't got vast active vocalbulary to find my way arround essential words (I'm using netdictionaries all the time). This might be problem for some not-english-native-speaking-people. Not rule that it is so, just assuming

      Still one point and edit: just realised (according to genious of E-prime) one thing about conflicts here might be the multilanguality. Some might verbally misunderstand and attack another even thou they share same line thoughts 'cause other one or both don't handle the nature English. They just try to find the best words to descripe their thoughts and experiences not even knowing some meanings of the word that absolutile mislead of the point. We're in interwebs... not in Britain, States or Australia. We're all trying to communicate in English for to get common conversation
      Last edited by labyrint; 09-14-2011 at 11:04 AM.
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      Indeed. I thought signatures were limited to 7 lines anyway. How the fuck....
      Spoiler for dreamdealer:


      Bad karma on icing threads, please continue conversation and ignore me if this happens "WE APOLOGISE FOR THE INCONVENIENCE"

    3. #3
      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
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      Are you suggesting we switch our dialect to a more external version?

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    4. #4
      Peaceful Dreamer kenietz's Avatar
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      @labyrint:
      Natively, i speak bulgarian language which doesnt have any connection to english. Still, i try to express myself relatively clear and for most of the time it works.

      I know that avoiding 'to be' is cumbersome and making you to go around but that gives you a couple of things. One, it slows you down and forcing you to think better what exactly you want to say and how to say it. It could improve your language relatively fast. Also, your post will transform from stating fact/s to stating opinion on some matter. Which on its turn will reduce the needless verbal fights over some problems

      @Omnis Dei:
      I suggest we change our attitude on this forum by using e-prime. Our way of expressing ourselves will stay the same but the meaning of our statements will improve greatly.
      One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

    5. #5
      Peaceful Dreamer kenietz's Avatar
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      I see some people took a look into this thread but almost no comments left.

      PLEASE, leave your comments!

      Thank you!
      One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

    6. #6
      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
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      Dreamviews capability of shifting right now is minimal but I like where your heads at.
      Last edited by Omnis Dei; 09-20-2011 at 12:59 AM. Reason: E Primed

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    7. #7
      Peaceful Dreamer kenietz's Avatar
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      @Omnis Dei
      Dreamviews should not change but the users should. It requires a bit more of effort in formulating one's ideas but the overall meaning of the discussions would increase. It seems that it would have a nice influence on Beyond Dreaming(BD) because of the topics which are discussed there. Most of the things we discuss at BD seem not easily provable for now which turn some of the threads in a weird place(check whichever Shared dreams thread).

      Btw, do you live in Nepal? I want to go there to see the mountains but have to find some time. Currently i live in Singapore so at least i have the chance to organize a small trip to Nepal.
      One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

    8. #8
      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
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      No I find the flag badass

      I live in the US, but I don't like our flag or what it stands for.

      Anyways, an E-Prime only thread in the Lounge might be a good way to start, just to get people to try switching over. Rather than suggesting everyone switch over, just start out with a single conversation.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    9. #9
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      sorry i wont be writing in E-prime..i speak how i speak and if anyone ever misunderstands what i say i just correct them..i havent got the time to try and do this so count me out
      LUCID GOALS
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    10. #10
      Peaceful Dreamer kenietz's Avatar
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      @angie746:
      You do not need time to try, you just have to start using it. It takes time to think well what you want to say though and how to write it. Anyway, i will try a new approach. Now then, you seem interested in LD. Why? Cos you wanna change yourself,right? Eh, e-prime seems as another way of changing one's mind. As language shapes our world, changing our language changes our world. Of course you have to make the choice.

      .i speak how i speak and if anyone ever misunderstands what i say i just correct them
      Exactly why i suggested to use e-prime. Misunderstandings coming from the fact that when using 'to be' one states a 'fact' and not an opinion, which in fact we all should be doing. Then in the threads we could have more information and not misunderstandings.
      One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

    11. #11
      Peaceful Dreamer kenietz's Avatar
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      @Omnis Dei:
      Starting e-prime thread sounds like a good start. Could this thread discuss Shared Dreaming? Cos as the most controversial topic it raises lengthy disputes and it could make a good test.
      One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

    12. #12
      Peaceful Dreamer kenietz's Avatar
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      Yeees, still a bump. Obviously people do not like changes. As usual it takes time for the mind to digest the info. Anyways, obviously we will still be enjoying nice and crazy threads. So let us have fun!!!

      Cheers

      PS: it seems a bit confusing tho.people wanna change and be aware or increase their awareness yet they fail to see that the language seems to take part in building our world in an intricate way. So being aware of that and how we use our language increases the awareness in a very subtle way. Writing in e-prime takes some effort but try out to speak in e-prime and then a whole new world opens. I mean to speak in it one must think in it which means that one accepts the uncertainty,in any meanings possible, of our world. That way,in a certain way, one always questions the 'reality', something like a constant RC. Which one could use for improving the LD itself. Just a thought tho. No offense meant.
      One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

    13. #13
      Peaceful Dreamer kenietz's Avatar
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      Hi,
      i do not understand at all. If someone reads and has no desire to post at least could vote. One click seems quite simple to me

      Cheers
      One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

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