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Title says all...
Most people would say they're the same, in the sense that in both you are supposed to be traveling to another reality or dimension rather than a dream realm. In an OBE, you actually remember or experience exiting your body. In astral projection, you may not necessarily remember leaving your body.
Its universal term of out of body experiences. Ld is an obe, ap is an obe. Obe is when you are out of body. Am i doin it rite?
OBE is a scientific label of a phenomena and takes no bias for or against concepts such as the soul. Astral Projection assumes we are traveling out of body using our Astral Body.
I'm still forming my opinion on this, but I kinda believe, that in lucid dreaming you are in dream plane, that's mostly in your mind, although some people talk about your private space (in your mind) and also public space (possibly not in your mind).
In OBE, you are in astral plane, similar to dream plane, but it's outside of your mind. You can also OBE into Real world.
Now this is just my opinion and it doesn't mean, that it's true.
The truth is that they are the exact same thing. The only difference how they each occur. Astral projection is suppose to be when one willingly or unwillingly travels out of the body. Can also be called spirit walking. An obe typically happens when one has experinced a crisies in life such as the death of a loved one or they themselves are hurt and bordering death. Usually on the brink of consciousness. Astral projection is simply forceing the body to do this via yoga, and meditation techniques.
They are both the same. Just different names.
Wait! Gab I was totally sure of myself because of my own studies but your idea seems valid as well. Hmm, I wanna look into this.
It all depends on the person's personal beliefs.
astral projections and OBE's are recognized as the same thing, they are said to happen in the astral plane. (if you believe in it)
whereas lucid dreams (and normal dreams) are said to happen in the dream plane.
This is my take on it. The Astral body is the spirit body. In ancient Egypt the mystics spoke of the KA and the Ba, Ba being the Celestial Soul Body; light body template and KA being the Soul essence or seed of consciousness. When one is unaware or fragmented to some degree in awareness of the spiritual reality, the two operate independently. When they are unified they become the Merkaba light body or otherwise known as the Astral Body, the vehicle of aware consciousness.
Initially the BA (celestial soul body) runs on auto pilot processing the unyielded spiritual insights overlooked in daily life whilst one is asleep and dreaming. It does this by producing dream experiences symbolic of whatever is in need of being addressed. The KA also goes on auto pilot as dreaming awareness, and can sometimes actually enter alternate realities (parallel universes etc.) In such cases it can attach itself passively to the alternate body of oneself. This I feel is what is experienced as dreams which are vivid but which have no tell tale sign as being a dream until upon waking up. These other realities may be related to learning lessons without having to actually reincarnate into them. Times contrast of flow between two universes is not necessarily relative. So a whole entire lifetime can occur within a nights sleep in an alternate cosmos and never be remembered due to the non relative time dilation/retention factor. Its also possible that one has many alternate bodies existing in infinite universes parallel to this one which all follow the same synchronised passage of time yet which are experienced singularly as either waking life realities or dreams via the non linear 4th dimension. Sometimes an individual may only exist in another cosmos as a conduit to serve as a lesson deliverer for others whereby they dream that role from another cosmos and the rest is set in motion as auto pilot by the Akashic records < look this up if you are unsure what it is.
By the same token the Akashic Records are the 4th dimension which enables the Lucid reality to function. Whereby all possible things from all the existing base physical realms are recorded/exist as static eternal blueprints (the records are more so the imprint of how many times a soul experiences a certain possibility i.e. deja vu) These possibilities become accessible to the lucid adept as a linear stream of events strung together in the 5th dimension which is independent of physical cosmoses i.e. the Astral realm. One can train themselves to experience the astral Lucid realm at will, however this may bypass learning some of the necessary lessons if they use external props, thereby rendering a greater amount of lessons the next time they dream non-lucidly. Its possible to have lucid dreams before all lessons are learned, this occurs during the intermittent period between the orchestration of the wider linear context relevant to ones growth. If one manages to clear all lessons and become a lucid master they have spiritually ascended. Whereby every night they astral project naturally with full awareness.
There is however the total ascention of the flesh still left to aspire to. This occurs when one is sprtually ascended as well as totally enlightened of the holographic nature of the universe. At this point ones body ascends to the 5th dimension of infinite paradise possiblities derived from the Akashic Field of the entire spance of all possible existences. There are even some reincarnated masters out there who are emanations of this ultimate reality, whom come to balance their objective cosm (of which they ascended from during it's final phase of linear potential at the end of the cosmic cycle in which they lived. This is so that the innocent souls whom would have otherwise ascended form that degrading cosmos, can be harvested via the 5D extension (the master) of the Akashic field into a cosmos of higher potential. This will be experienced as a event of positive deja vu whenever an individual is transferred.
P.S. Erii, I am still compiling my thoughts regarding the method of induction.
Thanx for the replies,
But how do you choose to go in the dream or astral plane if the OBE technique is the same as WILD and WILD takes you to the dream plane then wouldn't OBe just take you to the dream plane to?
That is an interesting theory spiratio,
Did you know that the 4th dimension is time?
So we are already in it.
I have been asking myself the same question. A friend of mine with many years of experience told me, that in dream, LD, OBE-AP, we go to the same place. What we experience there depends on our degree of awareness. So in a regular dream, we just see the place as dreamplace. In WILD/OBE, we are aware, thus we see it as astral plane. And depending on frequency of our vibrations, we can end up in different levels of the astral plane.Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwer
Closest to waking life is the astral plane, that resembles the waking life the most, it's almost identical. The further away we go, less similar it looks.
Here is a great website Levels of consciousness and OBEs There is more pages here with great info.
And another website Treatise on Astral Projection
So then what do you call it if you project a portion of your astral body, while keeping your subjective vantagepoint seated in your physical body? Its not OBE because you're not out of body. And you're not traveling out of body, so it doesn't fit your astral projection definition for that either. And if you were to do that and then move your subjective vantagepoint out of body, you still wouldn't have to interpret it as 'traveling out of body' (I don't). I call it astral projection, because its the same phenomena. I agree with everyone else that's its all basically the same kind of thing, with OBE usually having less emphasis on the subjective experience of being 'in' the nerves in your body, and paying more attention to the subjective visual or cognitive location.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnis Dei
In the context of academic thinking yes I'm aware. However many fringe thinkers consider the 4th D to be transcendent of linear time. It can be said that all dimensions below the 4th i.e. directionality in 3D space, the 2nd D and 1st D are all simultaneously time, so it can be said that the 5th D and 6th D etc. are all simultaneously time as well. The 4thD in the context of fringe thinking has an element of time as well but its non linear - omni-momental: all moments happening simultaneously thereby canceling out defined form yet still existing as blueprints of informational potential.Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwer
So because time is applied to all dimensions in one way or another as either linear, non linear or one eternal moment, then it seams logical to displace time to the last dimension after all other spacial oriented dimensions just as Einstein did. He had not conceived of other dimensions in a multidimensional manner beyond 3... had he done so I think he would have given the number which was last after all others the title of time.
My two cents....In physics terminology, a 'dimension' is a degree of freedom that can be represented by a single numerical value. Most scientists speak of "3 spatial dimensions plus time", rather than '4 dimensions' since time isn't the same sort of quantity as the others. All of these concepts are approximations which don't fully describe the physical world. One way of looking at quantum mechanics is that what is being described is actually less than three dimensional spatially, but more than two dimensional, which makes it seem sort of weird when described in terms of a 3 dimensional metric space. In my experience, when non-physicists speak of higher "dimensions", usually they're not talking about dimensions in a mathematical sense, so its hard to make comparisons against physics theories. I'm always interested in hearing about what people are aware of however, in hopes that I can extend my own awareness in a similar manner.
Like most people here I've had interesting experiences in dreams in this context. As I may have mentioned elsewhere, a few months ago I viewed a scene coherently from several directions at once, which was strange since visual experience is usually projected onto a surface. I've also dreamed of geometries that can't be embedded in 3-dimensional euclidean space. According to a narrator in a couple of these dreams, these reflect something of the everyday experience of other entities. Maybe more people will have these experiences after the seed of the idea is planted.