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    1. #26
      Rotaredom Howie's Avatar
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      How it escalates

      How things escalate!

      Originally posted by Kaniaz
      No, as was said before it's perfectly possible to read people's emotions from their body language, and their tone of voice, everything. It's that which can sometimes give an idea that things are a little \"off\". People have varying degrees of skill with this, so I guess that could help make it seem like a psi thing.
      Originally posted by Leo Volont
      so our friend broke down in a sympathetic fit of hysterical crying because he picked up on some 'body language'. Yeah right.

      The problem with scientific quantitative thought, is that it has no appreciation for degree or quality. If you science guys can't count it, you toss it out as irrelevent.

      Bean counters.
      Kaniaz. ....No. A simple word immplying that what you say is right and that is that.
      Leo . .... Yeah right. = Provoking.
      Leo. .... Bean counters. = Rather obvious!

      And so it goes on to many more subtle communication skills issues

    2. #27
      Member Placebo's Avatar
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      *sigh* Can't we just move on without dwelling on the insults thrown?
      Yes, some mud was flung. Yes, I warned. Yes, Leo took it the wrong way. I think we understand now... (I hope)

      Any more thoughts on empathy? I'm running out of things to say when people are straying off topic
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      Unless otherwise stated, views expressed in this post are not necessarily representative of the official Dream Views stance. Hell, it's probably not even representative of me.

    3. #28
      Rotaredom Howie's Avatar
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      Originally posted by Leo Volont


      Howetzer, you too?

      Honesty, how can anybody still be talking about whether one can recognize a nervous breakdown. The point in discussion is the transfer of Emotions from one person to another. Anybody can recognize an Emotional Breakdown. But only an Empath will break down in sympathy.

      and it is not a good thing. The Emotional Sheath... the Heart Chakra would have to be way too open and vulnerable. It may be a good thing to be able to pick up on other people's emotions, but not to allow them to penetrate into us to such an extent that we become as much of a basket case as the person having the Breakdown.

      One needs to be able to Close the Heart as easily as one can Open it, or it would impair our ability to function.
      That is quite possible leo.
      Could the vulnerabilty though be that of the persons emotional state at that time? Or would that not cross over into interpertation?

      What you said before about living through experiances rather than reading them from a book. Did you see the movie Good Will Hunting? When they are sitting on the park bench talking about a similer idea. Made me take a step back and think!

    4. #29
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      Hi Howetzer,

      I am not dismissing the supernatural completely, I think it is possible but the "reason" we use to assure ourselves that our check book is balanced and that navigates us through all the mundane aspects of life is the same "reason" that should see evidence of the surpernatural. But somehow when one looks closely most claims are easily dismissed and the ones that are'nt are left in that hazy area that noone can prove. Now after alot of years I have found that this simple reason almost always does what it claims to do, that is it manages life effectively. The "believe it without proof" type of reason very often leaves people hurt and confused, so I try now to be very careful about what I assert as true about things "spiritual".

      So I am simply being pragmatic. I am still as much a searcher in this universe as I have always been. I think it is quite possible that any distinction between natural and supernatural is completely artificial anyways. What is, is and what is not, is not. The question is about the truth. Some want it, some dont, some simply cant handle it.

      My issues with Leo are the same as anyone elses. He did not start this little tit for tat with me but I feel obligated to expect him to at least show us that one other respected teacher believes the same as he does. If you ask me why I believe what I do I dont say "because I am the next buddha". I try to give evidence. Leo is a one man pantheon who thinks his perspective on reality is reality.

      Even though it is not our responsibility to police the net for the sake of the younger members. Many of the teens who come here are living in confusing situtations to begin with, they don't need to be confronted by the lunatic assertions of some wanabe New Age William Burroughs. Who for all we know may be incarcerated at this very moment. The man has been banned from many other sites and I think it is high time we excercised our conscience and sent him a message.

      I will stop posting to this thread. It is a waste of my time to get into a debate with a man who makes up stories and then insists they are true. I respect the judgment of the moderators of this site and have enjoyed it so far because we encourage people who can show each other a little grace. There is no grace in Leo he is a false prophet, a petty fool who needs to shop his wares to 14 year olds on the internet because no sane adult would give him more than 30 seconds. This is harsh and may be grounds for a reprimand but many others around here have talked to me about Leo and I'm not one to keep silent forever. I believe Leo is a spiritual predator whose psychology requires him to try to impress by being superspiritual. I would not want my underage child talking to him online or in person ever.

      With Respect,

      EJ

    5. #30
      Member Placebo's Avatar
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      As you suspected, I sent you an official warning PM. Please refrain from causing more trouble... I did warn everyone after all.
      Can't we all just get along?

      Disagreeing doesn't mean we should flame each other for their opinions.
      Tips For Newbies | What to do in an LD

      Unless otherwise stated, views expressed in this post are not necessarily representative of the official Dream Views stance. Hell, it's probably not even representative of me.

    6. #31
      If I'm here I'm bored. justme's Avatar
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      But if I pick up body lanugage then why don't movies make me cry, or even feel like crying?

      "There are two types of people in this world, people who think there are two types of people, and people who don't."

    7. #32
      Rotaredom Howie's Avatar
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      Originally posted by justme
      But if I pick up body lanugage then why don't movies make me cry, or even feel like crying?
      In that case you know they are acting. Also you are not in their physical presence.

    8. #33
      Member irishcream's Avatar
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      hmm...this is an interesting debate...
      I mean, if i've known someone for a long, long time, i can usually understand why i'm so empathic to their situation.
      Example of something that happened just this evening.
      A friend of mine and I had an argument, over something really silly. I've known this person for nearly three years, and i can just tell as soon as they walk in the room, that something might not be right, if it isn't.
      So, we had this row. But when we'd calmed down, i felt terrible, and i could tell, without even looking at him that he was feeling as terrible as i was!
      I put that down to having spent enough time around him to have learned what makes him tick.

      Now flip the coin.

      Someone i've known for not even half that time. Someone i've never met. Yet i can sense what they are thinking 80% of the time, to the point that i've thought it before they've said it.
      I feel their emotions with the same intensity they feel mine...

      And this is the bit i can't explain.

      So, what is Empathy based on?

      The Power of Knowledge? or can there really be such deep connections between people, that have no real explanation, but they are nevertheless real?
      'all of the moments that already passed/
      try to go back and make them last.'

    9. #34
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      Originally posted by irishcream
      hmm...this is an interesting debate...
      I mean, if i've known someone for a long, long time, i can usually understand why i'm so empathic to their situation.
      Example of something that happened just this evening.
      A friend of mine and I had an argument, over something really silly. I've known this person for nearly three years, and i can just tell as soon as they walk in the room, that something might not be right, if it isn't.
      So, we had this row. But when we'd calmed down, i felt terrible, and i could tell, without even looking at him that he was feeling as terrible as i was!
      I put that down to having spent enough time around him to have learned what makes him tick.

      Now flip the coin.

      Someone i've known for not even half that time. Someone i've never met. Yet i can sense what they are thinking 80% of the time, to the point that i've thought it before they've said it.
      I feel their emotions with the same intensity they feel mine...

      And this is the bit i can't explain.

      So, what is Empathy based on?

      The Power of Knowledge? or can there really be such deep connections between people, that have no real explanation, but they are nevertheless real?
      Yes... I don't know what people are so insistent upon skirting around the more parapsychological explanations. It is almost not supernatural anymore, what people can sense about other people.

      I've learned not to hold up signs and wave my arms when meeting people at Airports. I simply look at them. As people invariably do, they sense when they are being watched and look around to see who is staring at them. Experiment if you will -- stare at somebody from off to the side or from behind and see how long it takes for them to turn around. No, not a beautiful woman, they are used to being watched and learn to ignore it... it is their way of rejecting a first advance. But they knew they are being stared at. I knew one beautiful woman who would know she was being watched from behind sure enough so that she would hold us the 'bird sign' when she knew she was being watched by somebody she did not invite to view her from behind.

      So, what is it in a person that knows he or she is being watched?

      I was a World Traveler. It is understood among World Travelers that they are to hone these subtle sorts of perceptions. A common World Traveler conversation would be "Why not go down this block?" "No... It doesn't feel right".

      Young people often have trouble listening to their 'feelings'. They don't want to seem suspicious and untrusting, and so they will force themselves to walk straight into muggings and rapes, even though they are ready enough afterward to admit that they 'knew' something was wrong. They had supposed that if they had no 'reason' to worry, then there was nothing to worry about. But these misfortunes teach them that feelings no longer should be dismissed.

      Back in Vietnam, the stupid sargeants would rotate 'point men' -- make everyone take their turn up front. and the platoon would walk into ambush after ambush. people would get killed. The smart sergeants would keep his eye on his men until he noticed some crazy squirrel who always had the right feelings -- paranoid, but always right. That is the guy that makes the perfect Point Man. Suddenly the Platoon becomes ambush proof. The officers don't want to hear about paranormal abilities, and so it would simply be said that Jonesy, or whoever, could 'smell em'.

      And about yourself, Irish, I agree with that dream you had. You have your feet on shore, but you keep close enough to feel the waves come in. You are in the Mind, but you stay close enough to the heart to know what is going on 'in the deep'.

    10. #35
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      There is one Organization that would not argue that there is such a thing as paranormal ability. It is Israeli Intelligence, the Mossad. There is not a deadlier, more ruthless pack of assassins on earth -- though America is now doing its best to emulate them. Anyway, they have never had any compunction about openly assassinating even the relatively marginal enemies of Israel, or I should say 'enemies of the Mossad', as these such organizations take on a life of their own.

      With this easy propensity to murder without the least compunction, why is it that Yasser Arafat died of old age? Well, there are hundreds of stories of how Arafat changed his plans just as Mossad Assassin Teams were moments away from closing their traps. Motorcades would take a left turn a block away from a Mossad landmine. Arafat would adjourn a meeting in the middle of a speech when the helicopter gun ships were only minutes from launching a Hellfire Missile into the crowded room, now empty.

      Apparently Arafat could sense all of the Mental and Emotional traffic coming from these men who would be all fired up with their blood lust.

      Remember Napolean Bonaparte at the Battle of Jena. He hid an entire Corp in a bank of Fog off to the Russian's Left, and gave down instructions that 'every single man' must think of France -- of being back in France home with their families, because if a single man thinks about standing in this Fog Bank, and the Russians sense this trap, we will all be undone. So a complete Army hid and meditated about being somewhere else. And it worked. The Russians marched past, and Napoleon closed behind. If the Mossad had read their European History, they might have learned to redirect their thoughts while setting traps. Instead these Mossad Killers must almost be literally stroking their hardons for Death. And Arafat could sense it miles away.... like the beautiful woman who KNOWS some pervert is watching her butt.

    11. #36
      Member irishcream's Avatar
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      [quote][quote]
      I was a World Traveler. It is understood among World Travelers that they are to hone these subtle sorts of perceptions. A common World Traveler conversation would be \"Why not go down this block?\" \"No... It doesn't feel right\".

      Young people often have trouble listening to their 'feelings'. They don't want to seem suspicious and untrusting, and so they will force themselves to walk straight into muggings and rapes, even though they are ready enough afterward to admit that they 'knew' something was wrong. They had supposed that if they had no 'reason' to worry, then there was nothing to worry about. But these misfortunes teach them that feelings no longer should be dismissed.
      I haven't travelled that much in my lifetime...but i know from an early age i've had the sensation of which you speak...a 'let's go this way instead' feeling. Drives my friends nuts, but they usually go along with it.
      There was one time, aged eleven, that i didn't listen to that instinct. Myself and some local children went on a walk with our then next door neighbour. Everything was fine for a while, until i got maybe five hundred yards from home. I've never been able to say why, but i suddenly thought 'we don't need to be doing this, it's a bad idea'.
      so i said to the little girl i was with 'come on, lets go home and get some lemonade or something'
      But she, being rather spoilt, was having none of it. The walk continued, into the late evening. And the more i walked, the uneasier i got, so much so that i transferred it to the little girl beside me, and she was very miserable.
      We didn't arrive back in the village until well past nine pm.
      I found my mother on the green, absolutely frantic, ready to call the police.
      None of us were harmed, our leader lost track of time, and his sense of direction.
      But since that day, i make sure i listen to my instincts, whether for good or for ill.


      And about yourself, Irish, I agree with that dream you had. You have your feet on shore, but you keep close enough to feel the waves come in. You are in the Mind, but you stay close enough to the heart to know what is going on 'in the deep'.
      Well, it's good to know that my heart doesn't interfere with my head as much as i thought it did!
      'all of the moments that already passed/
      try to go back and make them last.'

    12. #37
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      Originally posted by irishcream


      Well, it's good to know that my heart doesn't interfere with my head as much as i thought it did!
      No! there has to be some Real Connection.

      Now, it is useless for a person to be entirely Heart, without any idea at all about how to communicate or conceptualize what they KNOW.

      But if a person is entirely all mind, with the best communication and conceptualization tools in the World, and they have no connection to anything REAL, then it is all quite useless.

      A properly integrated person must have both.

      Catholicism's foremost Seer and Visionary, Anne Catherine Emmerich, famous now for having been responsible for the greater part of Mel Gibson's "The Passion" screen play, once had her own Vision regarding her Work as a Visionary. The Blessed Virgin came to her and told her that she had been given plans and forms for making a series of gowns, and then She showed Anne what she had done, and what the Gowns might have looked like. The Gowns Anne had made of the Knowledge given her were serviceable enough. but the Gowns that COULD HAVE BEEN MADE were of dazzling beauty.

      To have the heart connection gives us the Truth. but then there is PRESENTATION, PRESENTATION, and finally PRESENTATION.

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