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    Thread: thought on premonitions

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      thought on premonitions

      According to an intuition I had while sleeping a night or two ago, a premonition isn't "seeing the future", and its not "seeing a possible future", and its not "seeing another world that's similar to our future". (I'm omitting mention of possible non-paranormal explanations since I've ruled those out previously and have discussed them extensively elsewhere.) According to the intuition, the premonition is more like seeing an item in a vending machine which will fall out if money is put in and the right button is pushed. Not only does the premonition not imply that you will push the button, it doesn't even guarantee that you have money or that the vending machine works. The event may be impossible before you even have the dream. But the item is nevertheless behind the glass.

      The vending machine analogy isn't from the intuition, I made that up afterwards because there were no pictures or sounds with it. I don't know if the idea is right or not, I'm just passing it along for consideration. If it is right, it seems to imply the existence of something like an astral world, and seems to rule out parallel world alternatives I have toyed with previously.

      I'm reminded of another intuition that I had a few years ago, which said that the influence of heaven is unlike what we usually think of as cause and effect. Its not a matter of A implies B, where if you keep doing A then B will keep happening as a consequence. According to the intuition, its more subtle than that somehow.
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      Even with your explanation using the vending machine metaphor, doesn't that still describe a "possible future?"


      Not that it's a direct possibility as you are clearly trying to explain, but a possibility just the same?


      In the same sense that if the Catholic Church hadn't dropped in on the Age of Reason, we could possibly have a different world to live in now?


      Still, interesting to think about. I'd love to see what other people's thoughts are on your 'intuition'

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      Quote Originally Posted by melanieb View Post
      Even with your explanation using the vending machine metaphor, doesn't that still describe a "possible future?"
      No. Here's a specific example to illustrate what I mean. Last week I dreamed of my fourth child, a very specific, emotionally intimate experience of that child's mind. But I won't have a fourth child. My sister had this same kind of experience when physically beyond child bearing age. So its not a "possible future". But based on the similarity of the experience with a lot of other experiences, I don't think the dream was just a delusion either. If it were possible for me to have a fourth child, and certain necessary conditions were met, then that child would have been born. I think the soul is real somehow even though circumstances aren't quite right for a physical birth.

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      I would love to get into a discussion about possible futures and all kinds of elements but I don't want to give you the wrong impression either. Since I can not read your mind and make the connections you are making I feel it may prove difficult for me to get all that you are implying. I feel that your experience created some connections that I can't fully grasp, despite the fact I understand all of your words and the meaining you are trying to convey.


      Plus I just had a rum and Coke and I am probably not in the best condition to discuss deep thought issues.

      Still, I think this is an interesting subject and I would gladly discuss it sitting on the patio, following a nice evening meal.


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      Quote Originally Posted by shadowofwind View Post
      No. Here's a specific example to illustrate what I mean. Last week I dreamed of my fourth child, a very specific, emotionally intimate experience of that child's mind. But I won't have a fourth child. My sister had this same kind of experience when physically beyond child bearing age. So its not a "possible future". But based on the similarity of the experience with a lot of other experiences, I don't think the dream was just a delusion either. If it were possible for me to have a fourth child, and certain necessary conditions were met, then that child would have been born. I think the soul is real somehow even though circumstances aren't quite right for a physical birth.
      Why did you also rule out parallel dimension or alternate universe? If parallel dimensions do exist, it could be possible to glimpse a universe where you had a fourth child?

      I'm not postulating that this is what is happening, just curious as to why you ruled this theory out.

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      Quote Originally Posted by hermine_hesse View Post
      Why did you also rule out parallel dimension or alternate universe? If parallel dimensions do exist, it could be possible to glimpse a universe where you had a fourth child?

      I'm not postulating that this is what is happening, just curious as to why you ruled this theory out.
      Hello, good question. The "not seeing another world that's similar to our future" was part of the intuition. The thought itself could have been false, or I could have twisted it when trying to interpret it afterwards. Like I said there were no pictures or words or anything that I could latch onto easily. I worried about the "seems to imply the existence of something like an astral world" statement after I'd made it though, I'm not sure that it follows. I'm out of my depth, or at least at the very edge of it.

      My experience strongly suggests that fate is real somehow. Some things very strongly want to happen, and when such things get an opportunity to manifest, objects and events can be moved around in amazing ways to make it come together. Can this be explained purely in terms of things that have happened in other worlds? If so, I don't understand how those worlds are related to our world. Since 'fate' is real to me, this makes me suspect the intuition has more to do with an awareness of fate and less to do with awareness of other times and places.

      Also, consider the fourth child. His essence seems to transcend a particular physical circumstance, just as any person's essence does. So in that sense its not "another physical world" that I'm experiencing. And yet I agree that it seems he must live sometime, somehow, he can't just hang in spiritual limbo forever. And when he lives, or when he lived, must constitute something akin to a parallel world. It sort of fits the "past life" paradigm too, but I don't think there's a huge difference between those two concepts; one emphasizes a time aspect more and the other is more spatial. I also think that who I experience him to be is heavily qualified by who I am, and the circumstances that might have been available to him for expression. This is part of the reason I doubt that we reincarnate in an ordered sequence of lives, it seems to me that each one of us is sort of a tip of a much larger iceberg, and there are a lot of other tips that could be exposed. (As another analogy, red, yellow, and blue pigments could be combined and expressed as orange and blue, or green and red, or innumerable other pairs of colors. Similarly, a lot of superficially different life experiences could embody the same essential spiritual conditions.)

      One theory is that 'fate' is powered by our thoughts, that everything that happens is to bring our thoughts to fruition. I think there's an element of truth to this, in the sense that everything is interrelated, including thoughts and events. And we do have some power to alter our thoughts. That power isn't absolute though, to a very large degree our thoughts are also fated. I want to see the whole picture, to think about it in a way that accommodates all the available clues.

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      I actually had a premonition a few weeks ago of my friend falling down the stairs and breaking her leg in P.E. It was just a random accident and she lost balance at the top of the stairs. The next day It actually happened just like I had dreamed it. I was freaking out about it, talking to Erii a few weeks ago. Just thought I would share.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Mancon View Post
      I actually had a premonition a few weeks ago of my friend falling down the stairs and breaking her leg in P.E. It was just a random accident and she lost balance at the top of the stairs. The next day It actually happened just like I had dreamed it. I was freaking out about it, talking to Erii a few weeks ago. Just thought I would share.
      Thanks, this anecdote nicely illustrates the idea that the premonition isn't "seeing the future". From a strictly physical standpoint, the accident isn't fixed as an event ahead of time. It doesn't follow as a consequence from other physical events. Suppose that a person were to try to imagine the future as a pre-recorded destiny which we move through and witness without affecting it, as if "time is an illusion". This thought experiment fails in my view, if conducted in sufficient detail, because there's nothing in the realm of atoms, light, etc. which can keep the stair accident in its place; it has no rigid physical cause. So if its known ahead of time, it has to be caused by something outside of the realm of atoms, light, etc., in other words, some kind of providence. Some supernatural cause is behind the event, and absent that cause it won't happen as scheduled. Conceivably its a self-fulfilling prophecy in that you subconsciously psychically attacked your friend and caused her to fall, but I doubt that and in any case I'm lumping that in with supernatural causes. For myself I rule out "coincidence" since I've had enough similar experiences to decisively debunk that idea many times over.

      An idea I've had about why such events occur, is that there are parallel worlds or similar, and there are interrelationships between them, so that they need to be kept in sync or harmony somehow. There are angels or fates that do this. A person could think of them as malevolent because they make "bad" things happen, but they're forced by circumstances to make such things happen, and if they did not do so in a timely and intelligent manner then worse disasters would happen later. I can't logically justify this thought because I have no idea about what these "interrelationships" are. But this is what I feel. The angel gives you the dream and also causes the event, so in that sense it is a self-fulfilling prophecy. The angel tells us about this need for things to be kept in harmony, and how it feels to have to commit crimes for the sake of avoiding greater evils, and of our responsibility to do the right things in life so that things can be kept in harmony in a less painful manner. This is what I experience anyway. These "angels" I'm talking about are also like what people call our higher selves, though none of these words quite fit. To me the owl is another symbol for the same thing.

      In any case, thanks for sharing.
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      All very interesting stuff. I will be away from DV for almost a week, but will try to get back to this then. I do naturally lean towards believing some extreme stuff, so maybe I will entertain some one,,, next week.
      Peace Be With You. Oh, and sure, The Force too, why not.



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