Thread: What makes you think dreams are fake and waking life is real?

Ah yeah your right. My post was about if dreams were real NOT if they are a different plane of reality or not. I should've included that in my OP. For some reason I just didn't think of dream sharing when I wrote it. Perhaps I should make another thread explaining why I think when dreaming you are entering a different world and it's NOT a brain simulation. What do you think would it be an interesting topic to talk about?

Originally Posted by Daredevilpwn

Another reason why I believe a dream is a reality of its own is because of the fact it is possible to share a dream.

With all due respect, please cut the bullshit. This pisses me off like you can't fucking imagine!

^^ Relax, Gills; regardless of what Daredevilpwn might personally believe, that is not what we've been talking about here. About the only mention of dream-sharing was in confirmation that it was not part of the subject. In fact, I so failed to notice it, I don't even know where you managed to find that quote!

We're having (or at least had) an interesting, and I think very relevant conversation that happily did not include conversation about the veracity of dream-sharing. It would be great if you helped to keep us from entering that loop again, perhaps by contributing to this conversation and not that one.

Originally Posted by Daredevilpwn

Ah yeah your right. My post was about if dreams were real NOT if they are a different plane of reality or not. I should've included that in my OP. For some reason I just didn't think of dream sharing when I wrote it. Perhaps I should make another thread explaining why I think when dreaming you are entering a different world and it's NOT a brain simulation. What do you think would it be an interesting topic to talk about?

Not a bad idea at all!

Wow sorry Gills. I put "fact" by accident. Didn't mean to get you mad. I didn't meant to make it seem like I am saying dream sharing is a fact and can be done. Like I say at the end of my post. I am not saying what my theories are are true. I am just giving my speculation.

Originally Posted by Daredevilpwn

Is it because we are not sleeping? Or is it because you can't do crazy things like we could in a dream. In my opinion the truth is this. Dreams and waking life are both just as real as the other. When you leave the dream is that world still there? I can't answer that but while you were there you obviously thought it was real because if you didn't then everyone would be able to lucid dream without a problem if they can easily see it isn't real. Think about it like this. What makes something real is if you are able to experience it WHILE you are there. Waking life is real because everyone reading this is experiencing in the NOW. You may think the reason a dream isn't real is because it is in your head but the truth is LIFE as we know it is in our head as well. Everything we perceive is interpreted by the brain in waking life. Everything we perceive while we are asleep is interpreted by the brain. The brain treats both waking life and dreams as the same thing. The reason why it is hard to remember dreams for some is because you did not have a high enough awareness while you were in the dream to even remember.
This applies to waking life as well. If you don't have a high degree of awareness in the moment you will have a hard time remembering what happened during that time. For example you party all night and get drunk. By getting drunk you just seriously lowered you awareness but you still party. The next day you remember next to nothing because while you were partying you had little awareness. Its the same for a dream.


What makes a dream real is the experience. Just because it isn't physical doesn't mean it isn't real. Like I said earlier the brain doesn't care if it is a physical sensation or something occurring in a dream, it treats it as the same. The experience is what makes something real. If you can see,hear,touch,taste,smell it it is real! It doesn't matter if you perceive something another doesn't. Not everyone is the same and therefore cannot experience the same thing another person could experience.

One last thing. I am NOT saying this is the truth or how everything is. This is MY way of viewing things. Feel free to post what you think what makes something real or not real. Sorry for the long post. I just love talking about this sort of stuff.

I've always been told that the dream world is the real world, and the one our mind is anchored to (this waking world) is fake. The difference between the two is our freedom of perspective. If you consider the idea that atoms are 99% empty space, touching smelling or feeling things is entirely sensory. That, and the idea of the double slit experiment shows that in this world we are indirectly influencing the atoms around us, meaning that we exist not only within our bodies but in the 99% of the space we are not aware of. Which clearly implies that we are in a superstate of awareness, like subatomic particles which move and stay still at the same time, we are both dead, alive, sleeping and awake all at the same time, meanwhile only the focused intensity of perception is deciding what we are consciously aware of. (choice/belief) (Schrodinger's cat)

Considering the scientific aspect it's easy to connect lucid dreaming to waking life, as they are technically the same thing, just with less concrete beliefs in dreams.
I think that this waking life is no different than the dream life, because if you could forget a dream almost as real as real life, what's to argue that the memories which found our belief of this life are any more fake than dreams?
What's really interesting about this is, when you become lucid within a dream you're able to almost completely control everything around you, even go into perspectives beyond anything in "real life". However if you become lucid in real life you start to see the supernatural world. (emotions/beliefs controlling you)

Furthermore, false awakenings are almost identical to waking life, which is a bit confusing if you consider that maybe you never do wake up or go to "sleep", you just go in and out of your body consciously. I think it's a bit close minded (literally) to speculate that dreams are within the subconscious mind and not external. It seems to me that every dream is completely different during the experience, timeless if you will, but when you wake up your ego (belief system) attempts to decipher the 4-5th dimensional experience into a limited, time based, 3rd dimensional, story line we call "dreams".

What i'm trying to explain is that this entire life, dreams, memories, experiences are simply our physical (computer) minds attempting to contemplate the real world, the translation of which results in our metaphorical perception.

So dreams are actually far more complicated yet simple and real than anything we could contemplate in this illusion world, but our (ego's) attempt to understand, reconstruct and remember them results in an interpretation of this astral plane more relative to our earthly perception than to the actual world. This is why I think people forget dreams, it's too complicated for the ego to recreate an imperfect timeline for something timeless and immaculate.

Maybe this entire "subconscious" idea is a schematic of how to escape the prison of beliefs which trap our minds into limited space and time. It's sort of the "big picture" encompassing our entire bank of memories, which if compared to other world views such as religion, the big picture is simply the connection to everything/everyone else, it's death, birth, dreams, memories, experiences not divided by time, beliefs, or egotistical attempts to interpret the infinite.


“We have forgotten the age-old fact that God speaks chiefly through dreams and visions.”
― C.G. Jung

I'd like to point out that it is not an undisputed fact that dreams take place solely in the head or the brain. Nor is it a fact that dream characters, dream environments, and dream experiences are creations of the mind. Thus these assumptions cannot be used as serious arguments against the validity of dream reality.

Originally Posted by Daredevilpwn

Ah yeah your right. My post was about if dreams were real NOT if they are a different plane of reality or not. I should've included that in my OP. For some reason I just didn't think of dream sharing when I wrote it. Perhaps I should make another thread explaining why I think when dreaming you are entering a different world and it's NOT a brain simulation. What do you think would it be an interesting topic to talk about?

I think that would be a great idea, and very interesting discussion which I would love to take part in Not saying that this hasn't been an interesting discussion (because it has!), but my beliefs/theories would be more relevant when applied to the topic of different planes of reality.

ok, I'm new at actually being able to have LDs, I had my first only 2 nights ago and it was very brief lol. Still, I can theorize with the best of em.

When you're in a dream, and you realize you're dreaming you become lucid right? So lets say, that the next step to this would be now that you're lucid in the dream world, try to reverse the process?
Like lets say basically, that when we're in what most would call reality, being awake, that it's just like when we're having a dream, but more stable. More stable to the point that we don't ever suspect that it's just like the dream world. So, from the dream world, we attempt to WILD back into the waking world, attempt to become lucid from the dream that we all live every day? Almost a matrix sort of concept I suppose.

If this could happen, what would happen? If you WILD from the dream world back to the conscious world and realize the conscious world is also a dream, then maybe we can do amazing things on this plane of existence? Or are both planes of existence equally real, but they both have different laws and no matter what, the laws of the waking world will never be broken like you can do in the dream world? Think about it, in the dream world, sometimes we have weird and outrageous dreams, but most times, when we're not lucid and we're having normal dreams, most of the laws are the same, we can't fly around, we're held on the ground by gravity, ect.. When we become lucid, we can break those laws.. Transitioning back and forth between planes of existence could be key in becoming say, superhuman.. Has anyone tried to meditate into hypnagogic state while in the dream world?
Tesla was said to have been able to consciously LD, performing complex experiments in the dream world and recording the data in the real world. So, maybe when we wake from the waking world, and become Lucid, we'll have found a way to merge both planes of existence together? Or live fluidly between both planes as if there were no barrier? Imagine being able to snap into an LD in minutes whenever you wanted by a disciplined meditation, then to be able to leave it when you want to, retaining everything you learned from it or created in it? Are there other planes of existence we can discover after mastering the two we encounter every day? Thoughts?


- Cole Minor

This topic is close enough to something I was debating on an image board that I am simply going to quote myself.

Originally Posted by snoop

At this point, what you've said doesn't really need to be explicitly stated. It is something I acknowledge [that what we experience can and only will be subjective, as all our perceptions of reality are based on the relationship between what we would call objective reality and our means of interpreting it]. However, after realizing this and thinking subjective reality is all that matters, I couldn't help but keep thinking. After thinking enough, I realized that this fact, while useful in grounding yourself from believing in any one thing as "truth" too much, serves no other function. All it does is reminds you that you could be wrong. That idea is significant, but abused it does more harm than it prevents (which is essentially the case with everything, there is a need for a balance).

We spend more time awake than we do asleep, and among healthy individuals, this time is spent sane. A majority of our perceptual experience at least consistently remains "shared" without who we perceive to be as other individuals who share common characteristics for you. Alright, everything could be a dream, it could all be a massive trip, it could all be a recording, it could all be this theory or that. Fine, given our perception has limits, even with the tools and measurements we invent to understand the "reality" we inhabit, it is true that everything could be a result of something we have no understanding of. It could literally be a result of an infinite number of possibilities, and maybe it is even the case. The fact remains that there is a set of beliefs about one's perceptions of reality one can hold that are based inconsistencies ad infinitum, and there are a set of beliefs that change only as the inconsistencies we perceive in reality are weeded out.

We find, despite all real possibilities to the contrary, that there seems to be, more or less, a few ways that things happen under the right conditions. It would equally likely to believe that these consistencies or patterns we have found simply happen out of completely random chance. Despite the randomness of the chance, the patterns here do not appear to change except when the conditions we have yet to been able to identify change. It could also be by design, it could be because of anything. If there isn't something out there that is responsible for our remarkably similar experiences, then for what reason are they so similar? Again, anyone pretending to know what in the fuck they are talking about can say that we can't know, we can never know, and therefore we shouldn't even try to know, but that is just retarded. If you are in a desert and you keep following mirages of water or paradise, you might keep wandering through the desert only to find nothing. This is certainly true and I won't try to refute it because I recognize that it is true. What I also know is true, is that if we assume every oasis we see is a mirage, we will never find water. Why the hell would you ever stop trying to find water?!? Finding water is useful, even. Even if it turns out the water we eventually stumble across is just another fucking mirage, as least we tried. There can be no progress if you simply deny the existence of an objective reality. While you can never experience it in an objective way, the fact that we have empirical evidence, something consistent that forms patterns that we can measure things with, means that it could exist, and what our reality appears to be may be kinda sorta close to what it actually is. Even if we never completely understand it--which, at the moment appears to be physically impossible based on what we know--why would we ever stop trying to understand it? We wouldn't have anything that we have now if we stopped trying to understand what appears to be happening.

Originally Posted by snoop

This topic is close enough to something I was debating on an image board that I am simply going to quote myself.

Very good quote, I'm glad you shared this here as it is very strongly put. The way you word drives home to me that "Objective reality", the one we share. Has a certain solidity and patterns in it. This is hard to deny and based on mountains of evidence, the entire practice and philosophy of science is based on the premise that objective reality is real. Thus, in this era, objective reality is close to being a hard fact. Waking life could still be a dream, but it's a dream with patterns that are remarkedly different from most dream experiences.

I'm glad you mentioned an Oasis in ur example. This is a useful cornerpoint of thought. As it has gotten me thinking;

Originally Posted by Snoop

If you are in a desert and you keep following mirages of water or paradise, you might keep wandering through the desert only to find nothing. This is certainly true and I won't try to refute it because I recognize that it is true. What I also know is true, is that if we assume every oasis we see is a mirage, we will never find water. Why the hell would you ever stop trying to find water?!? Finding water is useful, even. Even if it turns out the water we eventually stumble across is just another fucking mirage, as least we tried. There can be no progress if you simply deny the existence of an objective reality.

An oasis is a perfect example, as it has a unique effect on perception. It mixes in subjective reality with objective reality. It's a hallucination, I belief that it's a hallucination that plays to our desires and signifies something. I think the hallucination is real and signifies that there really is an oasis. Upon realization that this oasis does not actually exist in objective reality tells us something about the whereabouts of the real oasis that we pick up on times of stress and death closing in. Here's where defining and seperating the concepts of objective and subjective reality comes in very handy. It saves us the trouble in trying to follow mirages of oasis and finding nothing.