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    Thread: Can astral projection occur outside of REM cycles?

    1. #1
      Member NeoSioType's Avatar
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      Can astral projection occur outside of REM cycles?

      This is a big question I've wondered for some time now.

      I learned about lucid dreaming years before I encountered the idea of astral projection and so I can't help but think it's just a mystical label for lucid dreaming.

      I would like some information that distinguishes it from lucid dreaming.

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      Member Woodstock's Avatar
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      If you're not dreaming then REM cycles don't matter. I don't know a lot about it, but from everything I've read it's different from lucid dreaming because you can see the real world, not a dream world.

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      Member NeoSioType's Avatar
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      I'm looking for physiological evidence that astral projection can occur outside of REM.

      What sort of studies have been conducted that distinguish them from lucid dreams?

      I heard rumors that the EEG differs though I know little.

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      DreamSlinger The Cusp's Avatar
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      They can happen outside of REM if you choose to believe that they can happen. It usually happens when the person falls asleep, similar to WILDing. Since REM does not usually occur right away, the majority of OBEs would appear to occur in a non-REM stage.

      The only difference between a regular dream and a lucid one is how you conceptualize it. In a non lucid, you believe everything is real, in a lucid, you know it's a dream. The way you conceptualize it makes a world of difference. This astral stuff is just a third way of conceptualizing the same dream.

    5. #5
      Member Falafels's Avatar
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      You can astral project without being asleep. My father used to do it while meditating. If he can be believed
      One story was his brother left our house for the drive home and my father meditated and saw his brother driving up the driveway into his house. My dad then rang him and said "You just got home."
      We always say "But you probably knew how long it would take him - so did you really astral project?"

      He seems to be adamant that he could do it. I think I've experienced it while sleeping but there is a bit of skepticism in me. But if he was able to do it while awake and meditating - it wouldn't be lucid dreaming?
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      I have only been out and shared an experience with my AP mentor, but I didn't had any vision but I could still feel things. However my friend have shared it fully. So the information below is according to him but most people that have experienced astral projection would agree. But you should know that this isn't my words because I don't have that much experience with astral projection.

      Answer to your question: Yes since astral projection isn't dreaming, REM isn't necessary. Sleep has nothing to do with astral projection, when you astral project you can be aware of both the physical body and energy body at the same time. So you can astral project while exercising, watching tv and even driving (however the last is not recommended for obvious reasons).
      When my friend shared an astral projection with my AP mentor he literally "separated" in just a few minutes. So relaxation is necessary for lucid dreaming and energy is necessary for astral projection.

      I am currently reading a book called "Mastering Astral Projection in 90 Days" So I hope that in the end of that course I will have experienced enough to prove the info above. I am also getting advice from my AP mentor but he gave me a very difficult task, that I have to solve before I continue.

      So if anyone could help me achieve that I would be really grateful ^-^

      He told me to find a way to feel energy and to do that I had to find a way to feel energy in my whole hand and when I had figured out how I am going to fill the hand with so much energy that it hurts and perhaps even burn. He's kind of a Yoda so I have to figure it out all by myself... x . x

      But even if I achieve this goal it's not over.. He wants me to make it second nature and to prove that it's all real he wants me to learn to do it at will, just as easy as moving my arm. However the book I read have similar exercises so I thought that if I do that first I might learn how.
      Last edited by MasterMind; 09-16-2012 at 11:39 AM.

    7. #7
      DreamSlinger The Cusp's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by MasterMind View Post
      Yes since astral projection isn't dreaming, REM isn't necessary. Sleep has nothing to do with astral projection
      Sleep or dreams? I think you can still dream while awake, as evidenced by schizophrenics, so I do still think AP is a dream.

      And since you have a Castaneda quote in your tagline, and I just finished off The Fire from Within today, I'd like to point out it say you can shift your assemblage point to a dreaming position from a waking state.
      MasterMind likes this.

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      I know =) Castaneda is another theory based on other people's experience I want to find out the truth about. Castaneda sees astral projection and dreaming as the same thing, however my AP mentor doesn't agree with him. I believe astral projection is dreaming, but only awarenes in dreams let's you see beyond the subconscious created, but since I have no empirical experience, except for the Iapetos name, I can't really have a valid opinion Soon....

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