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    Thread: Ways to test OBE's

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      Ways to test OBE's

      Im sure that what I'm going to say has been brought up a million times but I'll say it anyways.

      There are various AP'ers and obe pro's who state that they can travel out of their body and view things in the real world. So I was wondering what if you set up two room in one a professional AP'er and in the other a random person. The random person must right something on a piece of paper which the AP'er must read in his OBE.
      I know I am gonna try this out myself but I wonder why I can find no experiments that follow this principle?

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      Interesting topic.

      While ago, I have read a reason why proving OBEs is hard. This is what I remember from it.

      When you project with OBE/AP, you most of the time project not into our physical worlds (I think it's called the Real Timezone). Most of the time you project to a different plane.

      The plane closest to our physical one looks almost identical to what you remember from waking life. But it's not the same. There are differences, because it's the astral copy of our physical world. So everything you see is just astral copy and if I remember this correctly, thoughtforms.

      So when you project to your room, it may look like your room, but there may be different furniture - perhaps a remnants of previous inhabitant of that room. Since 'his' furniture was there longer than yours, he thought about that furniture longer than you are thinking of yours, and that's why it is still showing up. I'm not sure, if I'm entirely sold on this idea, but it may have something to it.

      Since everything is a thought form, if someone writes something as you mention, if he didn't think about it for long enough time, the APer will not see it, because it wasn't created in astral just yet. That's how I see it.

      I did an experiment, when I put a piece of paper with letter on it on top of my kitchen cabinet. Then during OBE, I went and looked and I got it right. Then I repeated this some days later, didn't have OBE only LD and I didn't get it right.

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      Thanks gab, that very informative.
      I guess I'll still be trying just for the sake of it. Personally I don't know whether to believe most of the stuff on AP since it's all still created by people's opinions. I used to be quite skeptical but after hearing a crazy amount of unusual experiences I'm not so sure. Once I'm living in my house for college I'll be trying this with my housemate.

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      Oh, sure, keep trying. It's fun. Maybe you'll get lucky and project to real timezone - our reality. In that case, you should see things as they are. But be ready for people running away screaming, because from what I have read, you'll be appearing to them as a ghost. hehe I have already warned my mom not to freak out, if she sees me.

      Have you read karen659 thread here in beyond? She projects a lot.

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      There are actually scientific reports on this, it isn't taken seriously of course. But check out Thomas Campbell on Youtube.

      I am planning on proving it by doing the note test myself. It's really simple, well first of all I need to learn how to OBE/AP to the real timezone but then I am basically like a ghost and I and I can go wherever I want, so I am going to do the test with my friend who lives near my house and easy to find, a simple test like he writes a note and put it in his room I go over there check the note, wake up ,call him and tell him what it said. I am absolutely fascinated by Robert Monroe and I am using his OBE method to accomplish this goal.

      Later on in life when I have mastered this technique, hopefully soon I can continue proving it to skeptics and free their mind of doubt

      But most of all I want to the universe!

      Read my Dream Journal for both progress and a summary of the methods and theory behind it all
      Last edited by MasterMind; 09-29-2012 at 03:56 PM.
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      Quote Originally Posted by dutchraptor View Post
      Im sure that what I'm going to say has been brought up a million times but I'll say it anyways.

      There are various AP'ers and obe pro's who state that they can travel out of their body and view things in the real world. So I was wondering what if you set up two room in one a professional AP'er and in the other a random person. The random person must right something on a piece of paper which the AP'er must read in his OBE.
      I know I am gonna try this out myself but I wonder why I can find no experiments that follow this principle?
      Sounds like a variation of the shared dreaming password experiment, except this time, on a more advanced level. I see...interesting. Maybe I can set up an experiment like it, though it might take a few months before it is even set up. I know Mastermind is hard at work on mastering all conditions for the process, and I'm actually interested in it as well.
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      Thats cool guys
      I'm reading through SOBT right now, if I can get good at obe's I will definetely set up an experiment here aswell as at home.

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      Quote Originally Posted by gab View Post
      I did an experiment, when I put a piece of paper with letter on it on top of my kitchen cabinet. Then during OBE, I went and looked and I got it right.
      If you put it there, wouldn't you know what it says before the OBE?
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      Yeah he's right, that does introduce the possibility of it just being a simulation of an OBE, which why finding what another person wrote is much better.

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      Yeah it is true however there is one difference between an OBE and a Lucid Dream that to the individual dreamer/experiencer/ Oneironaut is almost impossible to interpret wrong.

      Cob - "A dream feels real while your in them right? It's only when you wake up you realized that something was wrong" A dream feels hazy, not so clear and even if it feels more vivid it never feels completely real by the sensations, only by the emotions, if you understand what I mean. The dream somehow tricks you to believe that it is more real.

      Although an OBE in the real time zone (moving awareness out in the physical) feels completley different you feel the world as you feel the physical existence right now, completley vivid, completely clear and completley aware! In a way you are even more aware because you can examine every object in even more detail than you can now, you can see the small cracks in a complete smooth surface (because nothing is perfect) and another pretty important factor is that you don't need to stabilize in order to clearly see a face, like your own physical self sleeping.
      This is the main difference between a lucid dream and an astral projection!
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      The reason you can find no such experiments is that people who did them don't believe in OBEs (or at least in their own OBEs), so they don't need to post about them.

      I always had a big interest in proving my dreams were real, but such experiments never worked. Starting from reading a random book page and then checking what it says, ending with finding some object in a dream and trying to pull it into the waking reality (crazy, I know... but I was a kid). Often you can know your OBE isn't real from the start, though, just look around and see that what you observe doesn't match reality. You might have a father's clock that you've never had in the corner of your room, or you might see that the bookcase is sloped weirdly. With time these signs became so obvious that I stopped conducting any elaborate experiments.

      Good luck to you, though. But I'm pretty sure that to have a real OBE you need either an insane amount of luck, or you need to do something to make it work first. Don't ask me what, I've never had a real one. At least not in this physical world.

      Mastermind, I had OBEs that were hazy and lucid dreams that were super realistic. You can make something very vivid just by wishing for it aloud or mentally, be it an OBE or a lucid dream.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Intfere View Post
      Mastermind, I had OBEs that were hazy and lucid dreams that were super realistic. You can make something very vivid just by wishing for it aloud or mentally, be it an OBE or a lucid dream.
      Oh ok it was just an idea of mine, that an OBE in the real time zone would be as clear as day (as it is now), but I guess that can vary too then.
      I will see soon enough and make a valid opinion based on my own expericences Thanks for letting me now, however I hope my first OBE in the RTZ will be clear and vivid..

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      Good luck to you, Mastermind! Do I understand correctly that you've had OBEs, but not in RTZ? I'm puzzled, usually people astral project into a copy of waking reality, not into an unrelated dream.

      That said, did you try to command a lucid dream to become vivid and clear? You could check my claims this way and compare later. "Become clear and vivid!" can do the trick.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Intfere View Post
      Good luck to you, Mastermind! Do I understand correctly that you've had OBEs, but not in RTZ? I'm puzzled, usually people astral project into a copy of waking reality, not into an unrelated dream.

      That said, did you try to command a lucid dream to become vivid and clear? You could check my claims this way and compare later. "Become clear and vivid!" can do the trick.
      In my opinion the term OBE is a wrong term because you don't move out of a body since your never in it in the first place. Your awareness is shifted or moved, so therefore a dream can also be called an OBE in that case because that is moving one's awareness to the thought realm of your memories, emotions and subconscious. But when you move your awareness beyond that and are aware of the part of you, that comes from the same source as everything in physical existence origiantes from you can move your awareness out from your physical body.
      This is when you understand that you are not a robotic-brain-conscious generated illusion as some science suggest today, but you are a being within a physical body that now lives the human life.

      This was Robert Monroe's discovery, but for now I choose to believe it, for spiritual and optimistic reasons ^-^

      So in a way our physical world is a part of the astral, but when we dream and as our brain enters different frequencies, we are in a way viewing a different dimension.

      See this video to understand what I mean by that: Spirit Science 7 ~ Dimensions - YouTube

      Like I said I haven't experienced this myself yet, but I know many people and read alot of books with authors that explains the same thing.
      (Check out my Dream Journal for that progress.)

      This is also in a way what Buddhha would describe as enlightenment. "Look within, thou art the Buddha."
      "He who experiences the unity of life sees his own Self in all beings, and all beings in his own Self, and looks on everything with an impartial eye."
      We are all ONE, but we see each other in duality. When you astral project you will see that we are like leaves of a flower.
      Everything in physical existence can be seen as a branch from the "source", you can call it God but it's not an individual god, but it's the first consciousness which everything originates from. So we are a part of God but still the own creators of our own universe. Jesus once said "The Kingdom of God is within you. Even the least among you can do all that I have done, and greater things..." So now we can finally understand what he meant.

      I am not completley religious nor complete scientific, I am both ---> Spiritscience Yes you can call it New Age but atleast it provide a full picture of everything

      Sorry very much off-topic hehe

      I have stabilized dreams and I usually scream commands to make that happen and thanks for the tip, I'll check it out

      Namaste
      Last edited by MasterMind; 10-03-2012 at 06:19 AM.

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      Quote Originally Posted by MasterMind View Post
      This was Robert Monroe's discovery, but for now I choose to believe it, for spiritual and optimistic reasons ^-^
      I have difficulties with Monroe, for many reasons. But I understand you. In past I used to choose theories I liked and talk about them and live by them and even defend them if they were attacked. Now I take it easy, suspending belief into any view, hoping to find the truth of the matter, whatever it turns out to be like. There is a particular sense of freedom in it and a sense of readiness to accept whatever the truth is, rather than deny it when it stares you in the face just because you hoped for a different one.

      Quote Originally Posted by MasterMind View Post
      Like I said I haven't experienced this myself yet, but I know many people and read alot of books with authors that explains the same thing.
      (Check out my Dream Journal for that progress.)
      I'll check it out. Which authors are you talking about, by the way? The idea is quiet popular, a sort of idealism instead of materialism, as in mind is central to the universe and not matter.

      And I don't think it's off-topic at all. Is it not what we're trying to prove or find the evidence of? There's no way successful OBEs are possible if physical body is all there is to us.

      Quote Originally Posted by MasterMind View Post
      This is also in a way what Buddhha would describe as enlightenment. "Look within, thou art the Buddha."
      There are different versions of enlightenment, different schools loved to attack each other's views and goals. I wouldn't risk lumping them all together. After all, even their most prominent teachers disagreed, and I believe they were in position to know what they were talking about, and it would be a bit presumptious to claim that they were too stupid to understand that what they did led to the same goal.

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      Since I haven't experienced it myself, I can of course not KNOW but I choose to BELIEVE. But I find it incredible to see that Monroe who didn't believed in OBEs or even knew about it suddenly get one and through careful analysis one year later determines that they were indeed not just what we would call regular dreams created by the mind, but actually out in the physical world, or atleast something that would provide the same information as the real physical world in real time. What also is cool is that he managed to convert a skeptic, Thomas Campbell a NASA physicist that got tipsed by his boss to get a chance to meet a Monroe in person, and now he is around the world having seminars about the subject himself xD

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1vYHOPFgcg

      With authors I mean both more western thinkers like Robert Monroe but also many spiritual people like Robert Bruce but it is also interested to see how old civilizations used the same knowledge.
      Like the aborgines actively practiced the art of dreaming, because they didn't saw dreaming as we see it, also many egyptian drawings look very much like an astral projection so they might have practiced it as well. Even the bible mentions some similar things. Anyway my point is that it's mentioned everywhere.

      What got me into it in the first place was Carlos Castaneda's - The Art of Dreaming, he basically explains how to go from the dream into the out of body state, it's complicated but it is according to him possible since it is in the same "place".

      What I actually wanted to say about Buddha was that in some kind of meditation not sure what it is called, but the kind of meditation buddha did was that they say that when you are in that once again since we don't know where it is or even if it is a "where" I have to call it "place", well everything you think manifests. This sort of fits what I describe in my Dream Journal as well.
      Which is pretty cool. Maybe it wasn't but it was soemthing buddhistic.

      But the sources doesn't matter it all comes down to own experience anyway, so that's what I am going to attain.
      Last edited by MasterMind; 10-03-2012 at 06:21 PM.

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      I've never really believed that an a true RTZ obe should be able to be clarified, it is exactly what makes it so sketchy to me. The only way I will accept that I had an obe is if I project into a 100% identical copy of the one we are in now and it is full detailed. I can understand that there might be reasons for your sight to be blurred in AP but I don't find them logical and believe more that they are evidence that I am actually not in an obe.

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      True dutchraptor, but it's not the clarity that will prove it fully, it's the fact that you can go over to your friend's house and check what he is doing and later on verify it

      That's my plan anyway, that's how Monroe got it proven for himself. He was even able to pinch one friend and she was able to feel it o. O

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      I love the Monroe books, am really interested in them and trust what he says is correct.

      However, it's a book, and if you are going to believe what you read in a book as fact then you would be as well being a fundamentalist Christian. No disrespect intended to fundamentalist Christians.

      Hopefully one day we can find the proof for ourselves, but I fear that's all it ever will be as any attempts to do these experiments in a controlled, observed environment has failed.

      Like you mentioned in your OP, it should be easily done but it's not. There will be a reason for it but depending on who you read, the reason varies. It's all down to personal experience. All I'm looking for is some evidence and conviction for my own benefit, I don't care about proving skeptics wrong as I don't think this can or will ever be done (if it could then it would already).

      IMO I think we're dealing with multidimensionality and we aren't projecting into the physical world as we know it. Monroe himself said in his experiments, like the one where he thought he saw his friend laying out big envelopes and distributing the family mail, they were actually dinner plates. Buhlman's opinion on this is that we project into a parralel dimension where it is as the physical but everything is in a higher state of vibration, so will appear slightly differently. If Monroe was infact able to pinch someone then she must have had her vibrational rate high enough that he could touch her from this dimension. I'm going to have to read Adventures Beyond The Body, by William Buhlman, again, to get it I think, but it makes a lot of sense.

      Again, just one man's opinion though and we need to each find it out for ourselves.

      Happy travelling

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      I don't believe it only because of his books, my friend was a skeptic like me and then he experienced a shared experience on the day induced by a guided session on Skype of a guy we know, I know it sounds crazy but we still got, well my friend got it proven -.- But since he was an angry skeptic and suddenly fully interested in it, I see it as a kind of proof for me anywyay.

      thebigm now when you mention it. I saw a video with Spiritscience where they talked about dimension and instead of describing them as lenghth, height and width and fourth then being time, they described it as frequencies: Spirit Science 7 ~ Dimensions - YouTube

      And that we enter the fourth when we are lucid dreaming - astral projecting because it is in the same frequency or dimension. In one video he also say that this is where our thoughts are in the thought realm or astral. Because we are experiencing a part of that dimension, although when we dream or OBE/ AP our awareness is fully in that dimension.

      However Monroe is certain that we can go back to the physical existence we experience now, with only our awareness as well because our physical existence is actualy also a part of the astral and a full dimension in itself (the third dimension) which makes it even more crazier. O. o

      The problem is however that mindcreated arguments is this: OBE-lucid dream-astral projection-phase it is all the same = a dream

      and the astral arguements is this: OBE-lucid dream-astral projection-phase + reality it is all the same = phases of awareness

      Haha the only way to prove it is by own experience so it seems like a personal journey... But if I can prove it to a friend by doing the "I know what you were doing 13:45" proof I think you can at least convince someone ^-^
      Last edited by MasterMind; 10-04-2012 at 08:07 AM.

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      Quote Originally Posted by MasterMind View Post
      What I actually wanted to say about Buddha was that in some kind of meditation not sure what it is called, but the kind of meditation buddha did was that they say that when you are in that once again since we don't know where it is or even if it is a "where" I have to call it "place", well everything you think manifests. This sort of fits what I describe in my Dream Journal as well.
      How is this state related to OBEs?

      Quote Originally Posted by MasterMind View Post
      But the sources doesn't matter it all comes down to own experience anyway, so that's what I am going to attain.
      I think experience is a highly unreliable thing. It is always subject to personal interpretation.

      I used to believe that dream characters were real living entities and would attack anybody who thought otherwise. And I'd tell them that it was my personal experience!

      Honestly, when I hear sentences like "personal experience", it's the same as "whichever way people prefer, without caring for truth"

      Quote Originally Posted by thebigm View Post
      it should be easily done but it's not. There will be a reason for it but depending on who you read, the reason varies. It's all down to personal experience. All I'm looking for is some evidence and conviction for my own benefit, I don't care about proving skeptics wrong as I don't think this can or will ever be done (if it could then it would already).
      Then maybe it's better to find ways to make it work, rather than try to prove that it does when it doesn't?

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      I am trying to find ways to make it work for everyone, read my Dream Journal Of course before I spread all that info I will have to make it work for myself xD

      Oh I sometimes say things without thinking that other people might not now what I talk about :S I used to believe that what Buddhist described as "successful" meditation was in fact a lucid dream.
      Because they said things like "You are in a complete void and whatever you think manifests the second you think about it." But now when I hear that all is the same thing but still real, I can't help but wonder if what they describe as enlightenment is the fact that they understand that this life is only temporarily and the things we put importance in like money or getting famous, sadly even love...
      Is not as important because the life after this is for eternity, and in these experiences they realized that they were just a being in a physical body. So we should stop craving for things and instead just be the self. It does sound similar to what Campbell and Monroe talks about, but that's just a thought that crossed my mind...

      When I say personal experience I mean that it's really proven, because I wont say it's knowledge before I am first skeptic until I really KNOW.

      It's not like I see a ghost like figure and then suddenly believe in ghosts, it's more like I see the "ghost" consider possibilities like it was an illusion, but I wont start to know until I see one again that can provide me with INFORMATION that proves it's existence like for example he/she talks about their life and I do some research and realize that the person really have existed, that's when I KNOW.
      That's valid personal experience. I'll try to use the same logic for OBE, but sometimes my exictement gets the best of me and I argue for the existence without really KNOWING, but for now I choose to be open for the possiblity.

      I once were fully skeptic -> now I am open for the possibility and chose to believe -> next step is to experience it myself and verify it's existence and KNOW.

      "To understand what I am going to tell you tonight I am going to acquire two things of you. You need to be open minded and you need to be skeptical. Open minded because to understand the big picture requires you to transcend all paradigms, to leap over cultural beliefs and personal beliefs, because that is the nature of breakthrough. Skeptical because without skepticism you cannot convert belief into knowledge."

      - Thomas Campbell.


      It's just like lucid dreaming first you might not believe it's possible even laugh at the idea, then you get motivated of the adventures you hear about and you chose to believe, then you get one yourself and BAM you KNOW.
      Last edited by MasterMind; 10-04-2012 at 09:18 AM.

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      Quote Originally Posted by thebigm View Post
      Like you mentioned in your OP, it should be easily done but it's not. There will be a reason for it but depending on who you read, the reason varies. It's all down to personal experience. All I'm looking for is some evidence and conviction for my own benefit, I don't care about proving skeptics wrong as I don't think this can or will ever be done (if it could then it would already).
      I also just want to prove this to myself first, if I happen to find over convincing evidence of its possibilty I will proceed to try prove it.
      I can't see how it wouldn't have been proven yet, some people are so convinced and yet no one has ever proven the skeptics wrong and gone "I just conducted an experiment and it's results show that something must be going on".

    24. #24
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      Astral Projection or OBEs might seems crazy or impossible for now, even though Nobel prize winners suggest that our physical reality is just as real as a videogame (simulated). But remember all the other times we believed something wasn't possible...

      Many people in the dark ages thought the earth was flat.

      In 1628 William Harvey a British physician suggested the heart was a pump that pumped blood around the body. When Harvey proposed his idea he was shunned by his medical colleagues for the notion of being preposterous.

      Before the 15th / 16th Century, boats were made out of wood. Not because metals were not available, but because of the belief that wood floats and metal sinks.

      In the 19th and early 20th century many people believed going to the moon was impossible.

      Source: http://www.chriswaltonuk.com/believeitornot.pdf

      You may write me down in history
      With your bitter, twisted lies,
      You may trod me in the very dirt
      But still, like dust, I'll rise.

      Are you ready for the next step?
      Last edited by MasterMind; 10-04-2012 at 06:26 PM.

    25. #25
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      I have successfully tested an OBE just a few days ago. Me and my friend both tried to Astral Project at the same time in the same room. I wrote a note on a napkin and put it in a high place. We both started at the exact same time, I did not have a successful OBE, but he did. And to prove it he was able to tell me exactly what the note said.
      MasterMind likes this.

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